What if you're wrong about which deity you pray to?

a reply to: intrepid

That's like me genetically creating an organism that's born addicted to a drug that only I can give it. If it doesn't get the drug, it suffers endlessly.

That's pretty messed up, and not very "Godly" IMO.

a reply to: ketsuko

I made amends with my father this month. I didn't need to believe in him. He was here and VITAL. I bought into that game until about 23. Religion is a 3 Card Monte game. Hell, if He is that interested in my life why doesn't he show it MINUTELY.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Right. I'm guilty just by being born. I want to get a pardon I have to give my life over to..... Like I said, that's a fixed game.

No, you were born into a sinful world, this does not make you responsible for the sins of the world.

The only sins you bear, and are accountable for, are your own.

The only problem is the issue that for us humans, the temptation to sin is ever present and we have a history of bad choices.

Yeah but after more than 5 decades of bad choices(some involving religion) I've become a very decent person. IMO. Why do I NOW need a supreme being to grant me absolution when I did it on my own?

Careful, they say pride is the deadliest sin.

btw no one buys Satan. It's him who does the buying.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: intrepid

That's like me genetically creating an organism that's born addicted to a drug that only I can give it. If it doesn't get the drug, it suffers endlessly.

That's pretty messed up, and not very "Godly" IMO.

But what if that organism refuses the drug when you try and give it to them? Who's fault would it be?

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: intrepid

That's like me genetically creating an organism that's born addicted to a drug that only I can give it. If it doesn't get the drug, it suffers endlessly.

That's pretty messed up, and not very "Godly" IMO.

But what if that organism refuses the drug when you try and give it to them? Who's fault would it be?

Why was the organism created so that it needs a drug? The fault lies with the creator, not the organism.

Like i said earlier, if god really existed, well most people even religious ones would end up in hell, for using only the parts in is good book to cater there needs at the moment.

So how do religious people fell about ending up in hell cause they worship parts of is teachings.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: intrepid

That's like me genetically creating an organism that's born addicted to a drug that only I can give it. If it doesn't get the drug, it suffers endlessly.

That's pretty messed up, and not very "Godly" IMO.

But what if that organism refuses the drug when you try and give it to them? Who's fault would it be?

Why was the organism created so that it needs a drug? The fault lies with the creator, not the organism.

In his example of the organism you'd be right, but God did not create man with the need of anything. They were perfect beings without sin, but had free will to do what they wanted, they chose to disobey, that is not God's fault.

If I tell you don't drink this because it is poison and you drink it anyway and die, who's fault is that?

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: intrepid

That's like me genetically creating an organism that's born addicted to a drug that only I can give it. If it doesn't get the drug, it suffers endlessly.

That's pretty messed up, and not very "Godly" IMO.

But what if that organism refuses the drug when you try and give it to them? Who's fault would it be?

Why was the organism created so that it needs a drug? The fault lies with the creator, not the organism.

In his example of the organism you'd be right, but God did not create man with the need of anything. They were perfect beings without sin, but had free will to do what they wanted, they chose to disobey, that is not God's fault.

Yup. Not my fault either though.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: intrepid

That's like me genetically creating an organism that's born addicted to a drug that only I can give it. If it doesn't get the drug, it suffers endlessly.

That's pretty messed up, and not very "Godly" IMO.

But what if that organism refuses the drug when you try and give it to them? Who's fault would it be?

Why was the organism created so that it needs a drug? The fault lies with the creator, not the organism.

In his example of the organism you'd be right, but God did not create man with the need of anything. They were perfect beings without sin, but had free will to do what they wanted, they chose to disobey, that is not God's fault.

If I tell you don't drink this because it is poison and you drink it anyway and die, who's fault is that?

It would be my fault. But if you put a bowl of candy in front of a child, they're going to have some of it. Especially if you knowingly allow them to be tempted. Then afterward, you're going to curse their children from that time on? Not cool.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Ghost147


I think this covers it.

“If I’m wrong about God then I wasted my life. If you’re wrong about God then you wasted your eternity.”

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

a reply to: infolurker

The thing is though, that's a lot of time and effort put in to your life, which may be your only one, completely wasted away over something that has absolutely no proof in it.

Another example in my OP would still counter your argument. That being, what if your religion is the wrong one, and that other religion over there is right? That would still mean you'd be burning, or tortured, or whatever that other religion claims simply because you are following the wrong religion.

So not only did you wast your entire life dedicated to the wrong religion, but eternity also.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Ghost147

Christian denominations are not mutually exclusive. For example, a Lutheran Christian is just as Christian as an Anglican Christian, as is a Baptist Christian.

The mode that they express their Christianity does not change the fact that they worship the same God, namely, Jesus Christ.

So what does that make Unitarians then? They consider themselves to be Christian but reject both Jesus as God and Jesus as the only means to God.

If that's considered Christian, then would Islam also be Christian, they hold more meaning to Jesus than Unitarians do. In Islam, Jesus is considered to be a messenger of God and the Messiah who was sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, the Gospel.

At what point does Christianity stop be Christianity?

I'm not totally sure, but I believe Restorationism and Nestorianism also don't hold Jesus as the center of their religious views, despite being Christian denominations.

originally posted by: Klassified

Then afterward, you're going to curse their children from that time on? Not cool.

No different then the Drill Sargent making the whole squad run five miles because one fat boy couldn't keep up. Happens all the time. I know that's a bad example but that's just the way it is.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: intrepid

That's like me genetically creating an organism that's born addicted to a drug that only I can give it. If it doesn't get the drug, it suffers endlessly.

That's pretty messed up, and not very "Godly" IMO.

But what if that organism refuses the drug when you try and give it to them? Who's fault would it be?

Why was the organism created so that it needs a drug? The fault lies with the creator, not the organism.

In his example of the organism you'd be right, but God did not create man with the need of anything. They were perfect beings without sin, but had free will to do what they wanted, they chose to disobey, that is not God's fault.

Yup. Not my fault either though.

Not mine either, but I'm not going to cry about it and blame God, I just take it out on my woman, lol.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Like i said earlier, if god really existed, well most people even religious ones would end up in hell...

This is true...

Man's definition of 'believer' is not the same as God's definition.

Hell is FULL of so called 'believers'.

Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.

Placebo by Howard Pittman

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

a reply to: Ghost147

It really doesn't matter if i am right or wrong, your incredibly nihilistic viewpoint is be-rift of any enlightened perspective. My belief is not out of fear but hope. which it seems you have none. You lose.

originally posted by: bladerunner44
a reply to: Ghost147

It really doesn't matter if i am right or wrong, your incredibly nihilistic viewpoint is be-rift of any enlightened perspective.

Having no belief in god due to a lack of evidence and an educated view of how the universe can form without magic is not Nihilism.

originally posted by: bladerunner44
a reply to: Ghost147
My belief is not out of fear but hope. which it seems you have none. You lose.

Hope for what exactly?

a reply to: Ghost147

It doesn't matter who or what you pray to just that you pray. You are really talking to your higher self anyway.

I think we all pray to the money gods from time to time.

I know I pray to traffic, parking and weather gods on a fairly regular basis.

I do ask support and guidance from a number of more adept beings.

Prayer get me through the day. Meditation helps me see how silly it all is.

God created man with free will. Did he not know beforehand that Adam and Eve would sin? Did/does he know beforehand what the outcome of the lives of every child born shall be? I was brought up hearing that this was part of his omniscience. If this is true, he sure seems like one cruel S.O.B, and, well, free will is pretty pointless.

I also was taught that those who went through life ignorant of his existence would be spared from judgement, yet he compels believers to spread his word to all of these folks, effectively damning a good portion of them.

Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?'
Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.'
Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'

I have to agree with Intrepid; this seems like a rigged game from the get-go.

a reply to: Ghost147

If I'm wrong then I'll just be rolling the dice like most of you. Good thing I'm right. Just like everybody else.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Right. I'm guilty just by being born. I want to get a pardon I have to give my life over to..... Like I said, that's a fixed game.

No, you were born into a sinful world, this does not make you responsible for the sins of the world.

The only sins you bear, and are accountable for, are your own.

The only problem is the issue that for us humans, the temptation to sin is ever present and we have a history of bad choices.

Yeah but after more than 5 decades of bad choices(some involving religion) I've become a very decent person. IMO. Why do I NOW need a supreme being to grant me absolution when I did it on my own?

How did you self absolve?