What if you're wrong about which deity you pray to?

a reply to: chr0naut

Don't forget the JW's. They are Christians too.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
If people want to follow other faiths then that is fine by me, I might not agree with their ideas but I can at least respect the fact that they at least believe in a Creator and that we are not just here by chance.

Do you mean to say you have little or no respect for those that don't believe in any creator?

originally posted by: Mugly
from what i understand, god is supposed to be all loving and caring.
having said that, i see all kinds of suffering and terrible # going down every day.

imo, any god that allows these things to happen to his people is no god i want to follow or worship.

if i end up in the furnace, so be it. not anyone elses problem

But you are assuming that God made the suffering happen.

We have been given free will. We have chosen wrongly in the past. The consequences of these wrong choices is that world we live in has been corrupted, has become fallen, at a very basic level.

To rectify the consequence of that corruption and just 'fix the world' would also remove our free will.

Why do we, as humans, continue to do selfish and often spiteful things when we know the consequences will be negative?

God has provided a fix for the world, but it is one that engages free will. We can still reject it. While ever there is rejection of a free gift, that was costly to God, there can be no ultimate fix for the consequence of our choices.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Don't forget the JW's. They are Christians too.

Anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is their Savior by default is a Christian regardless of the denomination.

a reply to: chr0naut

But are we not, "born into sin"? If so we need to "go to Jesus" to be redeemed? To what we were already born into? That sounds like a shylock, not a supreme being. That's a rigged game.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
If people want to follow other faiths then that is fine by me, I might not agree with their ideas but I can at least respect the fact that they at least believe in a Creator and that we are not just here by chance.

Do you mean to say you have little or no respect for those that don't believe in any creator?

Of course not. I respect all people, I might not like their views, but that's no reason for me to hate them.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Figured as much, but wanted to be sure.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Don't forget the JW's. They are Christians too.

As I understand it, the Jehovahs Witnesses deny the deity of Christ as part of the triune godhead.

They also believe that membership of their group is what saves one, which, to me seems to denigrate the saving actions of Christ.

I'm not sure that I would classify them as having Christian beliefs.

a reply to: chr0naut

Right. They don't believe in the Trinity. They DO believe that Christ is the way to god though.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

But are we not, "born into sin"? If so we need to "go to Jesus" to be redeemed? To what we were already born into? That sounds like a shylock, not a supreme being. That's a rigged game.

The fact that we are born into sin is simply an acknowledgement of the situation.

Adam and Eve were not born into sin, nor would any offspring conceived prior to the first sinful human act, had that occurred.

Satan committed sin before there was human sin. It was Satan's fall which corrupted creation and then Satan spread that corruption into mankind.

a reply to: chr0naut

Right. I'm guilty just by being born. I want to get a pardon I have to give my life over to..... Like I said, that's a fixed game.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Right. They don't believe in the Trinity. They DO believe that Christ is the way to god though.

They see the way to God as acceptance of Christ and membership of their group. Their requirement is that both conditions be met.

a reply to: Ghost147

Reminds me of Emo Phillips

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

-Emo Phillips

a reply to: chr0naut

Which fits in perfectly with the OP.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Right. I'm guilty just by being born. I want to get a pardon I have to give my life over to..... Like I said, that's a fixed game.

No, you were born into a sinful world, this does not make you responsible for the sins of the world.

The only sins you bear, and are accountable for, are your own.

The only problem is the issue that, for us humans, the temptation to sin is ever present and we have a history of bad choices.

a reply to: intrepid

You've got it all backwards...

The game IS rigged alright, but it's rigged in you're favor.

You think God's against you when in fact just the opposite is true.

The fight is fixed and Satan's outcome is already determined.

He is fighting a loosing battle and will ultimately be knocked flat out on his back.

If religion is what you are referring to that's a whole different story.

God had nothing to do with it...

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Right. I'm guilty just by being born. I want to get a pardon I have to give my life over to..... Like I said, that's a fixed game.

So you are saying you have lived a perfect life?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Right. I'm guilty just by being born. I want to get a pardon I have to give my life over to..... Like I said, that's a fixed game.

No, you were born into a sinful world, this does not make you responsible for the sins of the world.

The only sins you bear, and are accountable for, are your own.

The only problem is the issue that for us humans, the temptation to sin is ever present and we have a history of bad choices.

Yeah but after more than 5 decades of bad choices(some involving religion) I've become a very decent person. IMO. Why do I NOW need a supreme being to grant me absolution when I did it on my own?

a reply to: Murgatroid

Sorry man. I don't buy Satan either.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: chr0naut

Right. I'm guilty just by being born. I want to get a pardon I have to give my life over to..... Like I said, that's a fixed game.

No, you were born into a sinful world, this does not make you responsible for the sins of the world.

The only sins you bear, and are accountable for, are your own.

The only problem is the issue that for us humans, the temptation to sin is ever present and we have a history of bad choices.

Yeah but after more than 5 decades of bad choices(some involving religion) I've become a very decent person. IMO. Why do I NOW need a supreme being to grant me absolution when I did it on my own?

Because you might have made amends with all the people on earth your bad choices hurt, but you didn't make spiritual amends with the guy upstairs. That's what atonement is all about.

Yes, He loves. Yes, He forgives, but like a parent, He also likes to know that His children actually do feel sorry for the bad things they've done because everything you did wrong didn't just hurt yourself or the people around you, they upset Him too.

So fine, make your amends here on earth, but don't forget to make your amends with God, too.