Channel Tunnel: '2,000 migrants' tried to enter

a reply to: Danke

Whatever, your opinion regarding such things is irrelevant to the topic of Britain stopping illegal immigrants in France from making it to the UK. They are in a safe country now so I don't really care how desperate they are in shanty camps.
All they have to do is claim asylum in France and they will get social assistance.
If they don't want to do that then tough luck, I don't care, and I'm glad the UK government id defending our border...because the French certainly are not.

originally posted by: crazyewokFact is I dont live in the 3rd world and have no desire or care too.

And all of that by your own doing! Great

Let me summarise.

There are two views here.

1. Open the doors and let them in.
2. Keep the doors closed and tell them to go home.

I can see the arguments on both sides. However, as a person living in Britain I do not think we can afford, or have the capacity, to take on the world's impoverished and self dispossessed.

If we want "cheap" labour we have the rest of the EU to choose from - God knows that the construction industry is pretty well supported by Poles - and I don't have a problem with that because I am happy with the free movement of labour within the EU.

I am less happy with migrants from outside of the EU. As they are illegal, they would end up being unscrupulously used by the black market, criminality, or just left to soil the streets and waste people's time. Generally, many of these people are uneducated and have no cultural association with the UK, so are out of context with the UK society. I am no fan of ghettos being created, inhabited by unemployable and increasingly disgruntled young men who think the host country owes them everything. Look to the routine race riots in France or the experience in Sweden.

It may be nice to throw open the doors and it'll give some people a warm, fuzzy feeling. But that'd only last a short time. The past immigration policy by Labour was an experiment that has gone wrong. Keep the doors closed.

a reply to: grainofsand

It is far from irrelevant when you look long term.

a reply to: paraphi

3rd option, keep the border closed and remind them that they are in a safe country.
The UK has absolutely no internationally legal responsibility to assist these people in any way.
It is a problem for France, not us.

And let's not forget that France doesn't want them either, it is why the police there just let them go when they try storming the border. France would probably love it if they all got through the tunnel and left Calais.

originally posted by: Danke
a reply to: grainofsand

It is far from irrelevant when you look long term.

Start a thread about it, I may be interested to engage with you, but I'm not interested in going down that discussion road in this thread.

a reply to: grainofsand

Sorry was just trying to give my viewpoint on why France isn't doing more, which was your main gripe.

a reply to: Danke

France issn't doing anything about it because they don't want the migrants there either.
UK border forces at the tunnel detain thousands of them trying to sneak into the UK and when they hand them to French police they just drive them a couple of miles away and let them go. Not even fingerprints taken.

If a few thousand illegal immigrants were camped at Dover slashing their ways into the back of lorries on the motorway they would be rounded up and detained.
What's happening at Calais right now is a French problem, and a problem for EU borders.
It is not the problem of Britain but I do understand why the French don't want them there either.

originally posted by: paraphi
1. Open the doors and let them in.
2. Keep the doors closed and tell them to go home.

Or solve the problem - if you want to see it as a problem - by removing the root cause. These so-called economical refugees are known to come here because it's soooo much better in the UK, right? Well, then simply continue the neo-liberal course set in the 1980s - by the UK mostly, alas - and wait until the inevitable happens: that the UK becomes such a hellhole for labourers that these economical refugees actually would prefer staying at home instead of risking their lives to come to the rescue! Better still, let's continue the current course a bit longer - so British labourers would jump on the speeding train themselves simply to have a chance of a better life in Africa..

Sarcasm off now.

Folks, remember our democratic, social and cultural heritage. We have always been nations of foreigners - my nation grew an thrived because it accepted refugees from all over the world. We are a liberal, free country. And so is the UK - still. Our values are reflected in the following quote; 3 refugees from a country where the authorities are often arbitrary and brutal finally made it to England. This quote starts with a grim image - but keep on reading ..

“We were being attacked out of the blue whilst walking near our house by people we did not know. They were shouting at us in fast English for no apparent reason. Luckily, we were spared from a full assault by passers-by, who were also white like those attacking us. Yet they stood up for us and chased the attackers away and called an ambulance. They also explained the situation to the police in our support even though they didn’t know us.

However, when the police came to our house next day to ask us about the incident, we were terrified. We thought they would ask us for our papers and deport us back. In particular, when they offered us a free drink and brought us a free lawyer at the station, we became suspicious again. To our surprise, they were polite and did not bother us much except checking our records with the Home office and taking our statements.”

Brought tears to my eyes. That's what European values are all about: dignity, solidarity and civilisation. Yes, it can be misused. So be it.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

No more muslims allowed.............Simple. No more bombs, no more trouble, no futire Bosnia's which will happen guaranteed. It is very very very bad thing to let more in. Our cities are already segregated. We take the Christians. You take the muslims or give them back to Libya.

a reply to: stumason

Welcome to mass migration hell.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

That's all rather nice, but you ignore the fact that refugees must claim asylum at the first safe country.
In this situation they are in a safe country, France.
They may well have passed through other safe countries to get to France, but that matters not, they are in a safe country so under international agreements the UK may continue keeping them out.

If they claim asylum in France they will obtain similar assistance and services as in the UK. If they choose not to claim asylum and instead live in a shanty type camp well tough luck, it is their choice.
...or you could ask them to move to your nation as you seem to indicate, I don't care, they are in a safe nation now.
The UK is obligated to do nothing except lawfully protect it's border.

a reply to: grainofsand

It is very similar to what happens in the US with Mexico, and it is frustrating I completely agree. They play the same games all over the world.

There is a big difference in the way illegal immigration is being viewed/handled now compared to even just a few decades ago, and it makes you wonder why.

I think the US has been a kind of "experiment" if you will. Not completely controlled, but pushed in the right direction.

originally posted by: Danke
a reply to: grainofsand


I think the US has been a kind of "experiment" if you will. Not completely controlled, but pushed in the right direction.

Yugoslavia was the original experiment way before the US though of it. Results = Total failure.

a reply to: stumason

Ok what would be your solution to this crisis? I've not seen any one providing solutions, just some back and fourth sniping, blaming lefties as usual. the government needs to be coming up with solutions, that's what they're paid for. No one said it would be easy

a reply to: stumason

We don't get to have rational debates about immigration in the U.S. because it is so emotionalized. Sure, it is good to give immigrants opportunities but there is another side to the coin. Plus, our immigration is a complete mess in the U.S. - hardly any of it is legalized, and the workers find jobs working for factories or farms that pay illigal slave wages.

a reply to: Danke
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

We are just lucky that Britain is an island, although France is only 22 miles across the channel.
A handful have got across on inflatable boats or whatever over the years, but I wonder what would happen if thousands of them start trying it?

Based on the actions of the French government to date I imagine their coastguard will let them go, turn a blind eye, so what happens then?
Do we have the Royal Navy at the halfway point towing them back to France?

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: ForteanOrg

No more muslims allowed.............Simple. No more bombs, no more trouble, no futire Bosnia's which will happen guaranteed. It is very very very bad thing to let more in. Our cities are already segregated. We take the Christians. You take the muslims or give them back to Libya.

Don't make the same mistakes Hitler made, my friend. There undoubtedly have been Jews that fitted the description the fascists made of them, but they were exceptions. Most Jews were quite decent folks. The same goes for Muslims. Somebodies religion is just one facet - it are a persons actions that make him into what he is. Banning Muslims from society is impossible - we have religious freedom.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

I've already suggested one, in my second post - don't fish them out the Med with the Navy and drop them off in Italy. Return them to Libya - the tidal wave of migrants will soon stop.

As for the migrants in Calais, this is a French policing problem. it's not rocket science -they have 5,000+ illegals living outside one of their major ports. They should round them up, ID/Fingerprint/DNA swab them and register them in France, process their applications and deport those who are economic migrants while helping the real refugees.

As for a longer term solution, get heavy with the Governments of the nations producing these migrants about improving their lot so they don't feel like they have to travel across half the globe to get a better life.. Cut aid and trade if necessary - money talks.

For Christ's sake, some are coming from India and Pakistan, nations that have massive military's and space programs! They shouldn't be having such poverty levels in those countries.

For the other nations, carrot/stick approach to improve human rights, economic opportunities and education.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Ask the French, it is their problem, not the UK's. These 'desperate' people are in a safe country so should claim asylum/refugee status in that safe nation.

All I want the UK to do is ensure those people (in a safe country) to not get into Britain.
Solution?
Bigger fences, and more security forces, at the UK side of the border in Calais, together with resource support for France if they want to fly them out of their country.