Stopped by a cop? Act like an ass. After all, it's your "right".

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Evil_Santa
a reply to: network dude

When someone says to an officer, "I don't want to talk to you" and then the officer is trained not to respect that by fishing for more information, or flexes their power by any number of ways that are taught to officers: probable cause, obstruction of justice, resisting arrest... We've all seen the videos.

How, and why would you expect the general public to respect officers now? New blue are being taught to not respect a person's rights by abusing laws to incriminate as many people as possible, as arrests and asset seizures lead to promotions.

Is it painful to be nice? Seriously, does it hurt?

Change needs to happen, no doubt about that. But with the attitudes I see here, it's going to change in the wrong direction.

As was the intent of the thread, you have the right to be mean, but being nice usually yields better results.(and to my knowledge, doesn't cost any extra)

Sounds touchy feely awesome, in application, it is intentionally violating people's rights.

And when they stand up for themselves, it is automatically red flags?

This officer is violating their rights, and resistance to this equals automatic scrutiny?

So because an American does not just give up all their rights, they must be guilty.

This is the base level of the problem.

Americans don't have to by law explain themselves, they don't to by law submit, they don't have to by law be pleader.

It is the Leo that has sworn to not only protect, but guarantee these rights.

Yet they violate them every day, thousands of times, and you defend these actions?

Plz.....

So, you read what I wrote, and extrapolated this response from that?

impressive. Great imagination. Too bad you couldn't comprehend it. I feel like it's good advice. Mr. Flemming gets it.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
You have no rights if you have a bad attitude, so we should just start imprisoning unhappy people! America land of the not so free. American police state F### yeah!

LOL, you have the same rights as anyone else. But, you acting like a jerk will likely promote the same response from others. Be it a cop giving you back your piss poor attitude, or the waiter who wiped your burger bun on the toilet seat and floor before he brings you your order. F### yeah!

Cop dont like your attitude you go to jail, lol land of the free my arse! Lets not forget anyone can be executed at any time, because the officer feels thretened when you try to show your lisence for a seatbelt violation.

Your video is a perfect example of a bad cop. Probably poorly trained, scared to death, and had a loaded gun. A bad combination. Are there more like this? sure are. The nice people here at ATS even made a forum for it all. But, are you claiming that every officer in ever state is like this? No, you wouldn't be that ignorant, and it's an ignorant suggestion. So by that logic, I think it's safe to say that there are a few good cops out there. Should you just assume the one stopping you is a bad cop and treat him like crap? Well, if you do, I am quite sure he will fit right into the bad cop box. But, if you take the inordinate amount of time required to comprehend my extensively difficult to grasp OP, and you decide to give the officer the benefit of the doubt and be polite with him, he might turn out to not be a bad guy.

But please spin what I said into a boot licking comment or something equally as stupid.

So you give up your rights as though you never had them? Cant disagree or question authority? I have an idea you have no rights, those are just ideas they give people to make you comfortable. Why? Because the police can suspend your rights whenever they feel like it, so did you have any rights to begin with?

a reply to: Answer

Cops having a bad day? Pulls me over? I'll be polite as can be. He could be having a really good day, and I'd still be polite. The guy is just doing his job.

I've had two bad cops hassle me in my lifetime. I, after a great deal of work/time, got them both fired.

Those experiences haven't colored my interactions with them at all.

I'm polite. ...and golly gosh, they're polite, too.

I was pulled over once when my headlight was out, and I hadn't noticed when I went to work, because it was still light outside. I'd noticed on my drive home, as it was about two in the morning...

So I'm sneakin' down the back streets of town, trying to be inconspicuous, and I'm within a couple of blocks of home, when that sneakin' so and so turns on his lights. Turns out, I drove right by him...

Damn. I pull over. Get my licence, registration, and proof of insurance out. Or started to... Oh, crap. Drivers licence is at home, so too is my insurance card. Oh, damn, this ticket is going to suck. Bad.

So I roll down the window as this young police officer walks up to my car. Expecting the worst, I explain what's going on, what's happened, so forth. Knowing it's going to do me no good.

He asks for the registration. Goes back to his car, checks a few things out. Comes back to the car and asks me do I still live at...

Yes, officer, I do. two blocks down thataway.

OK. Drive carefully, and get that headlight fixed. Make sure you remember your licence next time, have a great night.

Got in his car, and headed off into the night.

Totally professional. Very polite youngster. I was very polite, too. Amazing, huh? Didn't get tazed. Didn't get shot. Didn't even get a ticket, which I was expecting. In fact, I'd gone so far as to think about which bill could wait until after I'd paid the fine... Instead, I was wished a great night, and allowed to move on.

That's been the sort of interaction, with only two exceptions, that I've had with the police. City police. County deputies. State police. Even an Secret Service guy, once. Counterfeit currency was being passed in town, and he was one of the investigators...again, totally professional. No sense of humour, but utterly professional.

These sorts are in the vast majority. You tube videos to the contrary.

My take on life is to be polite with interactions with people unless the other person isn't to me, and that still doesn't mean I won't be. It''s still me exercising free speech, polite speech, if I choose.

I would say pick you battles - maybe one with an officer without you having a cause to do battle isn't the best of ideas.

I could test free speech that is ugly to my sig other, just because I can, but that doesn't seem like a good exercise.

originally posted by: works4dhs

originally posted by: roadgravel
Remember, the next time a cop walks up to you with his hand on his gun, you might be the next unarmed citizen shot as you reach for your license or insurance papers.

or the cop might end up as the next Eddie Plank, killed during a routine traffic stop. How many of our interactions could might possibly result in violence?

After all, you didn't understand his grunted order for an ID and made the mistake of asking 'what?' and made his attitude toward you go negative.

I seriously doubt many law officers will grunt instructions and go berserk if you act confused.

Police tend to ask questions in order to find a reason that you are a law breaker. Not answering tends to make them believe you do not respect their authority.

um, no. police tend to ask questions to find out what's going on. if nothing is going on you will be released to have a nice day.

There are screw ups on both sides of people/police actions. Doubt every one will make it to the middle.

true that. much more likely that a common citizen screws up than a trained selected law officer.

The number killed by police, without cause is more than 3 to 1.

His right to go home at night does not supercede mine.

Would give you stats, but they intentionally didn't disclose them, until recently, when they were required to from here on.

Wonder why that is... Maybe the fact police deaths period are factors fewer than civies?

Why would they want to hide that?...... Oh the obvious.

I am a white guy. I have the right to go to South Central LA and act like a douchebag racist. If I do, and get beaten up or shot, people will say I deserved it. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Obviously, I am not saying here that someone deserves to be shot for talking back to a cop, but what I AM saying is that your odds of being shot diminish greatly if you aren't acting like a jerk. Obviously, there are still exceptions and time and energy can be spent on the truly bad seeds, rather than forcing incidents.

People usually treat you like you treat them, whether they are wearing a uniform or not.

originally posted by: johnwick
a reply to: network dude

Um, by law, you know, the one you swore to uphold, he doesn't have to answer any questions ever period, you know, the 5th amendment, the right to remain silent.

Don't like it, don't have the mentality to handle this, don't be a cop.

Just do your job the right way, no probably at all.

That's your ego talking and its DANGEROUS!


Would you advise your daughter to act like Ms. Bland? On a lonely road with a nutty cop!


All your talk is fine and dandy but its theory.

In reality the OP is absolutely correct…reality, human emotions and human frailties doesn’t know anything about the constitution or ones rights and you know something many people ARE DEAD because of your attitude.

a reply to: seagull

That is exactly what I was saying. Be nice, and it helps the situation. Even if the other guy isn't. Just as you did, fight that battle later. If you see the cop is highly agitated, being aggressive with him is just a really, really bad idea. Even if you are an internet ninja who is 8 feet tall and weigh 450. It will turn out better in the long run.

Thanks for the sensible post.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Answer

The first video shows a man clearly not complying with officers commands to keep his hands up. If you refuse to keep your hands up when commanded and you keep reaching around your waistband, you can expect to be shot every single time.

What the video really fails to show, is that the guy they shot was talking to them, he was talking with his hands. Some people are like that. He was explaining that THEY WERE THE ONE'S whose bike was stolen, and they were out looking for their own stolen bike. They were not the bike thieves that that the police suspected them be. That's what he was saying to them, when they shot him and one other boy, who DID have his hands up.

If I did that, life or death penalty, they do it... Admin leave, a payed vacation, seriously?

Just saying.

a reply to: network dude

It's funny, in your stories about cops detaining you, they were alerted to something about you from a third party. Both times. Think about that for a moment. they are approaching you with the idea that something isn't kosher, which is why they were called. Now after the small talk and identification, all was fine. Why? it sounds like becasue you were polite. Amazing how that worked.

I feel you and agree. I just didn't like the "Get the hell out of here" comment tho after we were being so calm and polite and the scowl on his face as he said it. Those cops were f'n pricks with "bad intentions" despite how it all played out....it was because we were Canadian is why it did not become a case of extreme harassment and detainment. That is what they were discussing when they huddled together with our ID's.

Also, I have much more stories to share about my encounters with police in the States, btw...those two incidents I mentioned in my previous comment took place on the SAME road trip two days apart. I have travelled the world, dealt with law enforcement in other nations, and have much to compare with the U.S. Most police are good in the States, but the culture of policing and interactions are very unique....when compared to the rest of the world.

In other words: Who cares if there are more good cops than bad cops if the culture of policing in the States is defunct?

It obviously isn't making a difference....

And yes, no matter the law, the way you think a cop should behave, or how they are trained, he is human, and has the same faults, likes, dislikes, and personality quirks and anyone else. he is "supposed" to be professional. Most are. Some aren't.

...and yet, the issue of police brutality and unethical practices still remains a problem in the States. Why is that....?

My advice has been and will continue to be, show respect, and get your encounter over quickly. Arguing is for court.

My friend, you seem like a very kindhearted and fair-minded person, therefore, I have no doubt you will be able to process the following:

Have you ever been in a situation with a police officer (or anybody for that matter) where you know you are being unfairly targeted or persecuted, yet remain very calm, courteous and/or polite in hopes that your kindness will breed compassion and still they put you through the ringer....? They get that twinkle in their eye and that smirk on their face knowing that you know they are stiffing you....and you are powerless to do anything about it...? Have you ever been in situation where deep down you know the person in authority is abusing their power just because...? Do you know how much that hurts to still remain calm and polite as they tear away at the fibre of your being and upset your emotional body? Yes, it is best to remain calm, and have your day in court, but that is for those who have broken the law and accept responsibility (if I'm wrong - I don't argue -- here's my id and licence - make it quick - I got places to be - is my attitude - its not personal). Then there are those who are good people and go through the above constantly....for NO reason and therefore it is very personal. Attitudes arise from such f'kery....

Let me explain using Sandra Bland case as an example:

Sandra Bland was an educated woman from Illinois who just accepted a job at her college in Texas (alma mater) and was on her way to that job. She ended up being arrested by a dirty cop looking for trouble. A cop who had previously been fired for racism and brutality. She spent a few days in jail before being found dead.

I personally believe she killed herself (I could be wrong). Why do I believe she killed herself?

Her unfair violent arrest and incarceration caused her to not be able to attend her new job....and it was the last straw.

Can you imagine starting a job that you desperately needed, one that is very respected and you worked hard towards achieving, to only have lost it due to unfair incarceration by a dirty cop who is unable to see how far his actions reach and the consequences that arise from it all?

Perhaps she was suffering from depression....can you connect the dots my friend from a deeply human level of perception on how "having your day in court" is such superficial argument that does not take into consideration the true currency of life experiences and the butterfly effect....?

Here is something very important I want you to contemplate:

If Sandra Bland did not end up dead in her cell; would the world know about this unfair arrest by a dirty cop?

There are MANY events like this taking place on a daily basis in the states. Many people getting STIFFED by police that we will never hear about because they end up in jail and eventually do have their day in court....and lose much more along the way such as their jobs...all for nothing.

Perhaps, Sandra Bland's death was not in vain after all....

Again: There are MANY events (unfair routine stops - harassment) like this taking place on a daily basis in the states. Many people getting STIFFED by police that we will never hear about because they do not end up DEAD.

Let it all marinate....

Respectfully,

Involutionist

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
You have no rights if you have a bad attitude, so we should just start imprisoning unhappy people! America land of the not so free. American police state F### yeah!

LOL, you have the same rights as anyone else. But, you acting like a jerk will likely promote the same response from others. Be it a cop giving you back your piss poor attitude, or the waiter who wiped your burger bun on the toilet seat and floor before he brings you your order. F### yeah!

Cop dont like your attitude you go to jail, lol land of the free my arse! Lets not forget anyone can be executed at any time, because the officer feels thretened when you try to show your lisence for a seatbelt violation.

Your video is a perfect example of a bad cop. Probably poorly trained, scared to death, and had a loaded gun. A bad combination. Are there more like this? sure are. The nice people here at ATS even made a forum for it all. But, are you claiming that every officer in ever state is like this? No, you wouldn't be that ignorant, and it's an ignorant suggestion. So by that logic, I think it's safe to say that there are a few good cops out there. Should you just assume the one stopping you is a bad cop and treat him like crap? Well, if you do, I am quite sure he will fit right into the bad cop box. But, if you take the inordinate amount of time required to comprehend my extensively difficult to grasp OP, and you decide to give the officer the benefit of the doubt and be polite with him, he might turn out to not be a bad guy.

But please spin what I said into a boot licking comment or something equally as stupid.

So you give up your rights as though you never had them? Cant disagree or question authority? I have an idea you have no rights, those are just ideas they give people to make you comfortable. Why? Because the police can suspend your rights whenever they feel like it, so did you have any rights to begin with?

This must be a joke. What rights do I give up by trying to be nice?

explain that please.

originally posted by: network dude Now, Imagine again that you are that cop, but this time, the guy you stopped has a major attitude, and tries to tell you all about how he pays your salary and has the right not to answer your questions. Would you be nice to this guy?

well, i wouldn't shoot him. but then i'm not immune from prosecution. or a cop.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Hefficide

This honestly hurts my soul. We've reached a point where we are forced to perceive the police as dangerous thugs who we need to cower to just to avoid being summarily and arbitrarily beaten or executed in the street?

I'm not the brightest guy in town, but to me that is pretty much the definition of a tyranny.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I don't know what was going on in Illinois last week, but on my way to work there were cops all over the interstate pulling people over. So being the good boy that I am, I set my cruise control at 70 and was careful not to commit any moving violations.

Sure enough a state trooper got behind me and stayed right up on my bumper for almost 5 minutes. After passing a couple of 18 wheelers I got back over to the right lane hoping he would just go around me and leave me alone, but he didn't. Finally he pulls me over and very nicely tells me I didn't do anything wrong, he was just reminding me not to get too close to the truck that was at least 80 yards ahead of me lol.

He proceeds to ask me for my driver's license and then very, very nicely starts asking me questions like how am I doing today, where am I going, where am I coming from, who I work for lol, how I'm doing again lol. At this point I knew that what he was doing was illegal and I'm starting to get a bit irritated at being the target of a fishing expedition, so I kept my answers very short, my demeanor polite, and didn't provide any information he didn't specifically ask for.

He was basically very nicely hoping I would get livid, but I never did, so he just gave me back my driver's license and sent me on my way.

What else was I supposed to do, argue with him and wind up going to jail or worse? Afterwards I felt about 2 inches tall and violated but relieved as well because he was just itching for a reason to jack me up. How are we going to stop this mess?

Exactly the point, you don't have to take a jackboots bs.

He is not operating within the law doing this.

He needs shot dead on the spot.

At this point, this bs will end, not ever before.

originally posted by: Involutionist
Have you ever been in a situation with a police officer (or anybody for that matter) where you know you are being unfairly targeted or persecuted, yet remain very calm, courteous and/or polite in hopes that your kindness will breed compassion and still they put you through the ringer....? They get that twinkle in their eye and that smirk on their face knowing that you know they are stiffing you....and you are powerless to do anything about it...? Have you ever been in situation where deep down you know the person in authority is abusing their power just because...? Do you know how much that hurts to still remain calm and polite as they tear away at the fibre of your being and upset your emotional body? Yes, it is best to remain calm, and have your day in court, but that is for those who have broken the law and accept responsibility (if I'm wrong - I don't argue -- here's my id and licence - make it quick - I got places to be - is my attitude - its not personal). Then there are those who are good people and go through the above constantly....for NO reason and therefore it is very personal. Attitudes arise from such f'kery....

Actually, yes, not terribly long ago. Pulling into Wal Mart. A fat little Mexican prick of a cop stopped me and asked for my id. I gave him my licence, insurance and registration. Turns out my license was expired. My tags were a month out, and he claimed I didn't have insurance. It was Saturday, so it's not like I could call my agent. I was in the wrong, but was very polite. He was a condescending little prick and had my truck towed to impound. Oh, when I parked, he pulled up to the truck and sat there at first. I walked past him, said hello, and went inside. He had me paged back to my truck.

But, after that incident, I didn't decide that all Mexicans were pricks, all cops were bad, or all short fat people were condescending. I fixed my issues, got my truck, paid my fines, and went on with my life. My mental scars are deep, but I get by. One day at a time.

a reply to: network dude

I don't recall any law that says I have to be "nice" to the police. I personally usually opt to do so. But, honestly, in my own experience the number of police officers who approached me with a major attitude exceed the number who afforded me basic courtesy.

But even if a person is a total jerk to the police - that is not a crime and it certainly does not justify abuses of power nor violence.

As a private citizen can you shoot somebody and then claim their rudeness as legal justification?

originally posted by: johnwick
He needs shot dead on the spot.

Great attitude. He isn't a real person, so killing him is totally an option.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: network dude

I don't recall any law that says I have to be "nice" to the police. I personally usually opt to do so. But, honestly, in my own experience the number of police officers who approached me with a major attitude exceed the number who afforded me basic courtesy.

But even if a person is a total jerk to the police - that is not a crime and it certainly does not justify abuses of power nor violence.

As a private citizen can you shoot somebody and then claim their rudeness as legal justification?

Well, I don't recall stating it was a law. I did say it was a good idea to be nice. You don't have to. You can be a HUGE pecker head to any and all cops. In fact, you have every right to do just that. My expertly hidden point is that it's not a good idea to do that. Polite respect has a better chance of a good encounter than being a pinhead. But that is just my opinion.

And no, you can't shoot somebody for being rude. Even if you are a cop.

I am sorry you have had bad experiences with cops. You should move. The ones here are mostly nice.

a reply to: network dude

as the "War on Drugs" becomes less about beating the crap out of local poor people, the local cops have gotten much easier to get along with.

I think we had a poisoned culture here, thanks to the efforts of 4 or 5 long time force members. Those guys are retiring and things have changed considerably since then.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I have a friend (deputy sheriff) who buys into the gateway drug thing. I chose to pick my battles and don't feel like an argument on Pot and why it's OK to do with a cop who feels that way is a good idea, so I let it go. There are a few people out there who never tried it, and buy into what they have been told. If whatever they were told kept them from doing the crap I did as a teen, then I suppose it was a good thing.

I think the war on drugs is about to be over. There is too much momentum going to stop it now. But on that I am kind of a hypocrit. I think Herb is fine, and I detest Coke and meth. I hate seeing friends ruined while you watch.

But with cops and the recent issues, I feel like that too has momentum and there will be changes coming to try to fix some of the issues. Body cams that can't be tampered with, and some third party oversight. (IA but civilian with no LEO ties)
I am also not a fan of more government, so I vote we disband the IRS to make funds available for that project. Who's with me?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Evil_Santa
a reply to: network dude

When someone says to an officer, "I don't want to talk to you" and then the officer is trained not to respect that by fishing for more information, or flexes their power by any number of ways that are taught to officers: probable cause, obstruction of justice, resisting arrest... We've all seen the videos.

How, and why would you expect the general public to respect officers now? New blue are being taught to not respect a person's rights by abusing laws to incriminate as many people as possible, as arrests and asset seizures lead to promotions.

Is it painful to be nice? Seriously, does it hurt?

Change needs to happen, no doubt about that. But with the attitudes I see here, it's going to change in the wrong direction.

As was the intent of the thread, you have the right to be mean, but being nice usually yields better results.(and to my knowledge, doesn't cost any extra)

Sounds touchy feely awesome, in application, it is intentionally violating people's rights.

And when they stand up for themselves, it is automatically red flags?

This officer is violating their rights, and resistance to this equals automatic scrutiny?

So because an American does not just give up all their rights, they must be guilty.

This is the base level of the problem.

Americans don't have to by law explain themselves, they don't to by law submit, they don't have to by law be pleader.

It is the Leo that has sworn to not only protect, but guarantee these rights.

Yet they violate them every day, thousands of times, and you defend these actions?

Plz.....

So, you read what I wrote, and extrapolated this response from that?

impressive. Great imagination. Too bad you couldn't comprehend it. I feel like it's good advice. Mr. Flemming gets it.

Feel WTF ever you want, I have repeatedely
Told Leo's they are fos, as soon as I dialed my lawyer( in the past not at present, now I am poor thus actually subject to Leo's interpretation of the law) they walk away, because they know they are breaking it.

They are fully 90 percent + breaking the law to enforce their version of morality.

This is the reality.

Judge jury and at times, executioner.

All the while impeding the EMS to make sure the only witness dies.

Ya they are pinnacles of morality.