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I am sure Richard Gage earns his money through his Architecture Firm and not from A&E.
originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: pteridine
We conclude that
No, you conclude that...pretty presumptuous speaking for others mate.
This is a typical response from so-called "truthers." When they cannot respond, they leave. They will undoubtedly start another thread making the same erroneous claims.
Most of us including me left this thread because there is nothing more to discuss about 911.
Real Science doesn't lie.
I want you to post the evidence that demo explosives were used and for a very specific reason.
To let you know, I contacted Protec Documentation Services, Inc. last year and I want you to post evidence that their seismic monitors detected demo detonations. I am not shy about contacting companies for references and clarifications.
PROTEC : Clarification posted 9/3/06
In attempting to simplify technical references, we described vibration monitoring activities in a manner that could benefit from further clarification to provide context and minimize confusion.
As our report states, Protec was engaged in vibration monitoring activities on private construction sites in Manhattan and Brooklyn on 9/11.
Because these portable field seismographs were not physically installed and manned on the Ground Zero site, we do not feel it is appropriate, nor scientifically possible, to categorically state that data from these monitors alone can specifically prove or disprove the existence of an explosive catalyst.
In general, portable field seismographs are far less technologically advanced than permanently installed instrumentation such as the monitors at Columbia University’s Lamont-Dougherty Earth Observatory, which is why we chose to comment in detail on the Columbia University data before commenting on the Protec data.
For example, the Columbia seismographs can pinpoint a relatively accurate geographic location for a vibration event, (i.e., “this event likely occurred at or near Ground Zero”), whereas portable field seismographs do not possess this capability.
However, that said, the fact that the Protec monitors were activated and recording does appear to have some value in that they did not record vibration spikes that could be even remotely associated with explosive events during the timeframe in question.
Therefore, our specific clarification reads as follows;
a) The Columbia University vibration waveforms recorded on 9/11 do not appear to indicate that explosives were used,
b) To the contrary, our interpretation of these waveforms – and the interpretation of many other experts – is that they clearly indicate explosives were not used, and
c) Protec’s vibration data recorded during the same timeframe, while far less specific, does not show any vibration events that contradict the data recorded by Columbia University.
To this end, clarifying text modifications, not affecting our original conclusions, have
been made to Protec Experience Point #1, Protec Comment to Assertion #4, and Protec
Comment to Assertion #7, Point #3.
Dr. Rousseau : This text focuses on the study of the seismic signals from Palisades. The new interpretation presented here renders the assertions of the seismic analysis of the events at the WTC, as presented by the government in the NIST and other reports, null and void.
On the contrary, all the documented evidence points to explosions as the source of the recorded seismic signals.
Blanchard's treatment of the issues he addresses is anything but scientific. Blanchard:
---Provides no evidence to support most of his assertions.
---Repeatedly invokes a privileged body of evidence and ignores the vast body of public evidence.
---Excludes possibilities out of hand, cherry-picking a few issues to address.
---Relies on flat denials, such as his assertion that there is no evidence of explosives use.
---Exploits fallacies such as appeals to authority and appeals to prejudice.
---Promotes common misconceptions, such as that demolitions must proceed from the ground up.
As noted in the conclusion to my critique of NIST's report, the destruction of all three WTC towers exhibited six physical features unique to controlled demolitions. Blanchard simply ignores this evidence and the many arguments for controlled demolition they support, baldly asserting that there is "[no] evidence for explosives use." Implicit in his denial is a confusion of evidence for the use of specific explosives with evidence for controlled demolition.
skyeagle409 : I want to post the evidence that demo explosives were used and for a very specific reason.
a reply to: skyeagle409
I want you to do so as well. Btw., did you ask RJ LeeGroup, Inc. for clarification regarding their dust-analysis or will you accept their work by now?
LaBTop, Jan, 30 2013 : I did some off-line investigation in August 2006 at PROTEC, and lo and behold, what a pity sir, but by some strange accident, all these handhold seismograms have been absent from our repository for a long time already.
A couple of little factoids just to set the record straight :
Blanchard is certainly no expert. He has very little explosives demolition knowledge. He is not an engineer. He just travels around to demolition sites to take pictures. He also sets seismographs up to record vibration. CDI doesn't even allow him to be around their projects. Look at his website. Notice the lack of CDI pictures as compared to other demolition companies? There was a special on ABC that called him and his partner the "Beavis and Butthead of Implosion".
bsbray11 : Where are these handhold seismic records from Manhattan?
Only the 34 km away at Palisades based LDEO ones were ever released to the public, and they were not analyzed in any detail.
Most of the next seismic events go unexplained (labeled by FEMA simply as "further collapses" with no further analysis), and WTC7's seismic records show, again, that more energy was exerted before the building moved than during the global collapse. WTC7's records were also released later than the rest by LDEO, but I promise you it wasn't because the waves took longer to reach their lab. It was because they couldn't account for what had happened, and of course they never tried to analyze what was going on there.
originally posted by: pteridine
A reply to: Informer1958
It seems that your ideas about Gage were incorrect. You thought he was an architect that knew about large buildings and was still working as an architect. SamKent and I set you straight. Now you know he has a vested interest in keeping his minions paying into his organization.
When others finally realize that they have been duped, they will cease to support A&E and it will quietly fade away.
-- Richard Riggs, Debris Removal Specialist in “World Trade Center: Rise and Fall of an American Icon,” THC, 2002. (Watch at www.911conspiracy.tv... — His name and title shows at video run time 51:26. The quote is from vrt 54:00.)
The fires got very intense down there and actually melted beams where it was molten steel that was being dug up.
--Kathy Dawkins, NY Dept. of Sanitation spokeswoman: (Tom R. Arterburn, “D-Day: NY Sanitation Workers’ Challenge of a Lifetime” Apr. 1, 2002 at wasteage.com... )
…NYDS played a major role in debris removal — everything from molten steel beams to human remains….
– Marci McDonald, “They came to help at Ground Zero. What they experienced they can’t forget” www.usnews.com...
Turner himself crawled through an opening and down crumpled stairwells to the subway, five levels below ground. He remembers seeing in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow–molten metal dripping from a beam–but found no signs of life.
-- William Langewiesche, American Ground: Unbuilding the World Trade Center, North Point Press, New York, 2002, p. 32.
…the rattle of cascading debris, the ominous groaning of weakened structures overhead, or, in the early days, the streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole.
- Christopher Bollyn, “Foreign Firms Destroyed Crucial Evidence,” August 14, 2002, online at www.bollyn.com...
Tully said that there were hot spots where he observed ‘literally molten steel.’ Asked about what could have caused such intense heat, Tully said, ‘Think about the jet fuel.’
– Structural Engineer Abolhassan Astaneh at www.pbs.org...
I saw melting of girders in World Trade Center.
-- James Glanz, “Below Rubble, a Tour of a Still-Burning Hell,” NY Times, Nov. 15, 2001, New York Edition p. B1. Online at www.nytimes.com... (See the same article to hear this: “A three-foot stalagmite of steel, which looks for all the world like a drip candle, sits next to one of the immense steel columns that held up the north face of the tower.”)
‘It’s still cooking,’ said Thomas O’Connor, who manages the construction and engineering work at the site for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owned the buildings and arranged for the tour through the basement.
In the days after the collapse of the towers two months ago, the tangled steel was still so hot that it glowed like charcoal briquets in the unlighted basement, Mr. O’Connor said, adding, ‘For seven weeks it was surreal down here.’
-- Greg Fuchek, vice president of sales for LinksPoint Inc., maker of the GlobalPoint Global Positioning System receiver used to track debris and/or human remains recovery locations in the pile. (Trudy Walsh, “Handheld App Eased Recovery Tasks,” Government Computer News, Vol. 21 No. 27 a, 9/11/2002. Archived at 911research.wtc7.net... )
In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel,
--Joe “Toolie” O’Toole, Bronx firefighter and recovery worker. (Jennifer Lin, “Recovery Worker Reflects On Months Spent At Ground Zero,” Knight Ridder Newspapers, May 29, 2002. Archived at 911research.wtc7.net... )
...seeing a crane lift a steel beam vertically from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero. ‘It was dripping from the molten steel,’ he said.
- Herb Trimpe, “The Chaplain’s Tale,” transcript of audio interview at RecordOnline.com, archived at 911research.wtc7.net...
It took me a long time to realize it and I found myself actually one day wanting to get back. Why? Because I felt more comfortable. I realized it was actually warmer on site. The fires burned, up to 2,000 degrees, underground for quite a while before they actually got down to those areas and they cooled off.
I talked to many contractors and they said they actually saw molten metal trapped, beams had just totally had been melted because of the heat. So this was the kind of heat that was going on when those airplanes hit the upper floors. It was just demolishing heat.
--Rod Graham, “Mobilizing Public Health,” Johns Hopkins Public Health Magazine, Late Fall, 2001. Online at www.jhsph.edu...
‘Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense,’ reports Alison Geyh, PhD. ‘In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel.’
Francesca Lyman, “Messages In the Dust,” National Environmental Health Association, Sept. 2003. Online at www.neha.org... (Ron Burger was “a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who arrived in New York to help September 11.”)
A veteran of disasters from the Mississippi floods [to] Mt. St. Helens, Burger said it reminded him most of the volcano, if he forgot he was in downtown Manhattan. ‘Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen’s [sic] and the thousands who fled that disaster,’ he said.
(James Williams, “SEAUNEWS, The Newsletter of the Structural Engineers Association of Utah,” October 2001, p. 3. Source file expired: -www.seau.org... Articles quoting this source include: wtc.nist.gov... and 911research.wtc7.net... )
As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.
--Firefighter Captain Philip Ruvolo
You’d get down below and you’d see molten steel– molten steel running down the channelways, like you were in a foundry– like lava.
(Lumenick, Lou, “Unflinching Look Among the Ruins,” New York Post, March 3, 2004.)
heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel.
-- Dr. Keith Eaton at web.archive.org...://www.istructe.org.uk/about/files/president/Tour-2002-NewYork.pdf
They showed us many fascinating slides” he continued, “ranging from molten metal which was still red hot weeks after the event, to 4-inch thick steel plates sheared and bent in the disaster.
– Guy Lounsbury of New York Air National Guard’s 109th Air Wing at findarticles.com...
Smoke constantly poured from the peaks. One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers’ remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots.
– Lee Turner of The Boone County Firefighters at www.usnews.com...
He remembers seeing in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow — molten metal dripping from a beam — but found no signs of life.
Richard Garlock, a structural engineer for LERA said ‘Going below, it was smoky and really hot… The debris past the columns was red-hot, molten, running.’
-- Michael Casale, Project Supt., Mazzocchi Wrecking in Modern Marvels Demolition segment on WTC Ground Zero.
The steel was so hot from the jet fuel that, uh, it was literally steaming. Your boots would melt in certain areas. That’s how hot it was. The steel was coming out red in certain areas for the first couple weeks, at least.
Vance Deisingnore, OSHA Officer at WTC, reported the following to Jim McKay, Post-Gazette Staff Writer, on September 11, 2002 ‘a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel.’
Summer 2002, on Sarah Atlas of New Jersey’s Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue – www.sas.upenn.edu...
‘The [NYFD] people who called us had been killed,’ Atlas considered as she surveyed the tons and acres of wreckage. ‘Nobody’s going to be alive.’ Fires burned and molten steel flowed in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet.” – “K-9/11: Tracking the Rescuers’ Trauma,
-- Fire Department Chief Mike Donoho of Texas Task Force 1 Urban Search and Rescue,
What you had were large columns of steel that were just stuck into massive amounts of molten steel and other metals, that had just fused together from the heat and bonded together from the strength of the collapse....It looked like a massive, molten mess that had been fused together, like a car that had been cubed and crushed. With all that heavy, heavy stuff, there were wires, rebar, concrete. Most of it was just steel. A lot of what we were walking on was just molten steel.
The workers go through three pairs of rubber boots a day because they melt in the three-week-old fire of molten metal and jet fuel. The health hazards are everywhere: the fire, molten metal, the lack of breathable air and 3000+ decomposing bodies.
Each story has its differences. Some told of 10-hour car drives and arriving in the black of night, the same calendar day as the towers were hit. Others remembered taking military transport – a C- 141 in Deeds’ case – a few days later. Others remember molten metal still dripping under the Pile more than a week after the attack.
Some beams pulled from the wreckage are still red hot more than 7 weeks after the attack, and it is suspected that temperatures beneath the debris pile are well in excess of 1,000°F.
The ‘hot spots,’ where intensely burning debris generated temperatures in excess of 1300 degrees Fahrenheit, posed a significant danger to relief workers. NASA had an instrument that could provide information that would be useful to emergency responders. NASA’s Airborne Visible infrared Imaging Spectrometer (0x1a.com...]AVIRIS) science instrument was capable of providing data that could be used to filter smoke and locate extreme hot spots.
The temperature at the core of ‘the pile,’ is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials.
Firefighters and other responders contended with intense heat associated with the super-heated steel for weeks; some were coming back from shifts with the bottoms of their boots melted.
- www.nydailynews.com... – also www.libertypost.org...
Firemen and hazardous materials experts stated that, six weeks after 9/11, ‘There are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories underground] that are still cherry red’ and ‘the blaze is so ‘far beyond a normal fire’ that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about it based on other fires.
Ground Zero at the World Trade Center was a search site like few others after a major disaster event. Multiple sources of hazards were everywhere. There were shards of steel piled on steel, a two-million-ton pile of debris, red hot steel beams still being pulled from the earth, crevasses, holes, unstable ground, still burning fires, possible asbestos exposure, and caustic fumes that may have contained mixtures of benzene, methane gas and other chemicals.
– Congressman Pete Hoekstra hoekstra.house.gov
The first indication of ‘Ground Zero’ is the smoke. It’s still smoking. Many of the beams are still red hot as they are uncovered, and start new fires as the oxygen reaches them.
A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures, Dr. Barnett said.