WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.

a reply to: LaBTop

That video does not depict the sound of a demolition explosion. That sound is indicative of structural failure. Case in point in this video where a crane breaks up at time line 0:42. What do you hear?

a reply to: waypastvne

Thanks for posting those photos!

It is amazing that despite so much wreckage recovered from the crash site of United 93, there are those living in a world of denial claiming no aircraft crashed there. I might add that radar also tracked United 93 to that location as well.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

But it demonstrates that the "Truth Movement" has manufactured such an intense air of confusion, disinformation, misinformation, and lies that serious and informed speculation has become impossible.

I disagree.

You are lumping all people "Truth Movement" who do not support the OS. Not everyone that is searching for truth supports such nonsense.

When one is trying to expose the OS lies, one does not have to create disinformation to exposes a well establish lie.
I never fell for the holograms planes. or Judy Woods energy beams, or the no airplane hoaxes.

I am convince that disinformation was planted by FBI keyboard OP's to derail the Truth that many Truthers where exposing.
I am not accusing ATS or any member. This is my "opinion" only.

The disinformation that the FBI created was aimed to discrete Truth movement it was done to insult and ridicule the movement so no one would pay them any attention. It was done so well, that many debunkers who support the OS nonsense
uses the same disinformation to ridicule many people trying to expose the OS lie.

It is a well known fact that The Truth of 911 is a threat to the OS narrative and the powers that be.

I call it a COINTELPRO Operation that the FBI has used in the past to cover up political events. It is designed to discrete the truth by any means.

COINTELPRO

COINTELPRO The FBI began COINTELPRO—short for Counterintelligence Program—in 1956 to disrupt the activities of the Communist Party of the United States. In the 1960s, it was expanded to include a number of other domestic groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Socialist Workers Party, and the Black Panther Party. All COINTELPRO operations were ended in 1971. Although limited in scope (about two-tenths of one percent of the FBI’s workload over a 15-year period), COINTELPRO was later rightfully criticized by Congress and the American people for abridging first amendment rights and for other reasons.

White Hate Groups
New Left
Puerto Rican Groups
Black Extremist
Hoodwink
Cuba
Socialist Workers Party
Espionage Programs

vault.fbi.gov...

COINTELPRO - Has 9/11 Truth been inflitrated?

If you really think that it is impossible for the public faces of our group to be secretly working against us, please entertain this notion. Certainly very evil people planned and carried out 9/11. So are these people not evil enough to infiltrate the 9/11 Truth Movement and make it appear as if they are working for us? The 9/11 attack was surely one of the most evil crimes and deceptions the world has ever faced, so I would be shocked if they didn’t place operatives in the Truth Movement to ultimately control both sides of the argument.

911blogger.com...

Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth - post an article on COINTELPRO

Jan 26, 2010
Sunstein and Beck Fire Shots Across Our Bow
— Gregg Roberts

Officials, journalists, activists say 9/11 truth activists pose a violent threat; call for secret government disruption of our work – or worse

Note: This article addresses issues that arguably lie outside AE911Truth's mission. We consider such a departure to be justified in this case, because the paper by Sunstein and Vermeule specifically mentioned as the targets of its advocated "infiltration," the 16% of Americans who responded to a Scripps-Howard Poll in 2006 that it was either very likely or somewhat likely that "the collapse of the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two
buildings" (Conspiracy Theories, p. 2).

You know you're getting somewhere on an issue of paramount public importance when your opponents stop making fun of you and start describing you as a threat to the established order, and supporting interference with or the elimination of your First Amendment rights, and even accuse you of being a terrorist.

Background 1: Weitzman's Defamation

One of the first shots in the threat campaign was fired just over two years ago by Mark Weitzman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center (to which we responded).

Testifying in November 2007 before a House subcommittee of the Homeland Security committee, Weitzman portrayed AE911Truth in what could be construed as part of a jihadist campaign in support of "violent radicalization," " homegrown terrorism," and "ideologically based violence." The words Weitzman intoned as our homepage appeared in his presentation – "Soon, soon, soon, the attack on Manhattan" – have never appeared on our website. Alas, anyone testifying before Congress has absolute immunity against being sued for defamation. All of this is a sour irony, given Weitzman's work as an "anti-defamation" activist.

COINTELPRO Revisited – by Harvard Law Professors

In early 2008, Cass Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule published a preliminary draft of a Harvard Law / University of Chicago Law working paper entitled "Conspiracy Theories". The paper has become "the talk of the town" in the 9/11 Truth community. The references at the end of this article are only a small sample of what's available through Internet search engines.

According to the abstract:

Those who subscribe to conspiracy theories may create serious risks, including risks of violence… [T]he best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups.

COINTELPRO, the FBI's 15-year Counter Intelligence Program initiated by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover himself in 1956, illegally targeted a wide spectrum of citizen activist groups for infiltration and disruption. The openness of Sunstein and Vermeule's call for such a program to be resurrected supports what many in the 9/11 Truth movement have suspected for many years: that government money is being used to pay people, posing as "Truth" activists, to knowingly promote false information and "increase factionalism."

In the body of the paper, Sunstein and Vermeule waste no time explaining the danger of 9/11 alternative conspiracy theories:;

cassiopaea.org...

There is a lot more in this article to read.

I could go on about this topic, however I believe I have made my point to what the Truth Movement is up against when it comes to exposing the fallacies of the OS of 911. By no means, I am not suggesting that COINTELPRO is being used on ATS.

To back up more of what I am exposing.

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media

The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.

A Californian corporation has been awarded a contract with United States Central Command (Centcom), which oversees US armed operations in the Middle East and Central Asia, to develop what is described as an "online persona management service" that will allow one US serviceman or woman to control up to 10 separate identities based all over the world.

www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: LaBTop

Then where are the resulting ROWS of OTHER JUST as LOUD HUGE explosion sounds we should be hearing then thereafter?

Please point out the time lines in this video where demolition explosions can be heard.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
Re-Read what you asked....

OK I will'

originally posted by: waypastvne
Can you tell me what force each of those different coloured arrows represents ?

This appears to be your answer.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

Orientation, coordinates of momentum, direction of gravitation.

It was a very simple question, I have given you the correct answers. Does your answer match mine ?

#We can go on like this forever...

Arguments and counter arguments.

Moves and countermoves....

It is the way of things....

They think they have all bases covered.... but they cannot counter Compound Negative Potentials.... It is the ultimate truth in Math....

a reply to: Informer1958

I am convince that disinformation was planted by FBI keyboard OP's to derail the Truth that many Truthers where exposing.
I am not accusing ATS or any member.

I have been warning Truthers that there people planting hoaxed and bogus videos and photos and spreading disinformation to discredit the Truth Movement and it is the fault of the Truth Movement. After all, look how many of the hoaxed and bogus videos they have been posting, not to mention large amounts of disinformation that was debunked years ago.

Now, we find Truthers claiming that nukes, space beams, and missiles took out the WTC buildings. In another forum, I once joked about the government engineering metal-eating thermites and right away, a Truther took that joke and tried to use it in his argument against the government.

Simply amazing!!

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
Re-Read what you asked....

OK I will'

originally posted by: waypastvne
Can you tell me what force each of those different coloured arrows represents ?

This appears to be your answer.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

Orientation, coordinates of momentum, direction of gravitation.

It was a very simple question, I have given you the correct answers. Does your answer match mine ?

It is obvious your thought processes are blinkered to aviation.... I myself am a physicist and engineer and a business man.... The answer I gave you was correct... only you lacked the ability to read what I wrote.

If you don't believe me go and ask any physicist or engineer.

So please don't blame your own shortcomings on others!

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Take a look at this photo and tell us why you do not see an intact airframe of Caspian Airlines 7908. Look at the size of that crater. What happened to the aircraft?

Caspian Airlines 7908 Crash Site

Now, look at the crater at the crash site of a Bellview Airlines B-737. Where's the aircraft?

Bellview Airlines Crash Site

I don't know what caused the crash but this is the scene...











and compared to Shanksville...





Hmmm....

originally posted by: LaBTop

WTC 7 - HUGE DEEP EXPLOSION (by Charles Ewing Smith from A&Efor9/11TRUTH) :
www.youtube.com...

This video was filmed about 100 ft south of your video.




Can you point out in this video that HUGE DEEP EXPLOSION that nobody on camera seems to have herd or felt.

a reply to: skyeagle409

I have been warning Truthers that there people planting hoaxed and bogus videos and photos and spreading disinformation to discredit the Truth Movement and it is the fault of the Truth Movement. After all, look how many of the hoaxed and bogus videos they have been posting, not to mention large amounts of disinformation that was debunked years ago.

Are you saying all Truther are doing this?

a reply to: Korg Trinity

It looks like bone yard debris to me.

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: LaBTop

WTC 7 - HUGE DEEP EXPLOSION (by Charles Ewing Smith from A&Efor9/11TRUTH) :
www.youtube.com...

This video was filmed about 100 ft south of your video.

Can you point out in this video that HUGE DEEP EXPLOSION that nobody on camera seems to have herd or felt.

To understand that you first need to understand how microphones work and the noise reduction technology used on omnidirectional mics, which are the standard for interviews. This is so they can cut out as much of the background noise as they can to capture primarily the source they are recording.

Deep bass frequencies are often felt and if you noticed the woman reacted to the collapse... her back was turned to it... she heard it! The microphone however did not.

So your evidence is nullified.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
The answer I gave you was correct.

OK. This is your answer:

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

Orientation, coordinates of momentum, direction of gravitation.

Let'a explore your answer.



1 Which arrow represents orientation and how can orientation be a force ?

2 Which arrow represents coordinates of momentum ?

3 which arrow represents direction of gravitation ?

4 Why have you failed to name the remaining 2 arrows ?

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
The exact opposite... The video evidence clearly shows the rate of collapse as being indistinguishable from free fall speed!

This is another debunkers technique... claim the opposite as to what has been found....

This "expert" is either the most horrific person to analyze video, or a purposeful disinformation agent.

First, he claims the building was 100 meters wide, and used that to "calibrate the scale" in his video analysis. 100 meters, really?

Then he uses the "vertical spacing" of the horizontal lines of a heavily compressed multi-generational YouTube video to find the 29th floor. No expert in video analysis would even both with such a poor resolution video -- especially at a non-even scale of 2.001085 which will introduce inaccuracies.

So, he's starting with very bad data as the baseline for his calculations. It can't be trusted.

He's placing marks, frame-by-frame, for the corner of the building as it falls... coming to the conclusion that the acceleration of the building is indistinguishable from free-fall -- that is, if you rely on bad math, with bad assumptions, using a horrible source video.

originally posted by: LaBTop
If you are so sure about that, then this FOIA freed video by Charles Ewing Smith with that huge explosion sound in it, must for sure make you severely doubt your own words after seriously contemplating my explanation following that video.

No. I've seen the video, several times. Since when does it take one explosion to bring down such a large building?

To me, the sound is consistent with catastrophic failure of support steel under extreme stress.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity



omnidirectional mics,

Yes it is a omnidirectional microphone it is probably a "Electro-Voice RE50".


Omnidirectional microphones pick up sounds in all directions. Hence the name: omnidirectional microphone.

It's unidirectional microphone that pick up only the sound directly in front of them,,,Silly.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

if you noticed the woman reacted to the collapse...

Yes i did notice she did react to the collapse. What I didn't notice was her reacting to any explosions, which should happen before the collapse.

Originally posted by: skyeagle409
A reply to: Flatcoat

Firstly, RKowen is a complete joke...and that's being kind. Secondly, he doesn't even mention WTC7, which is what the video from the above poster refers to. 2.25 Seconds at free fall acceleration is proven beyond a doubt and even admitted to by NIST,

That is false. Total collapse for WTC 7 to fall was 17 seconds. Case in point and notice that the collapse begins with the collapse of the penthouse.

To further add, there are no demolition explosions as WTC 7 collapses.

To sum it up, WTC 7 did not fall at free fall speed as shown in the videos and there were no sound of demolition explosions as WTC 7 collapsed and no evidence of explosives was ever found in the rubble. Verdict: No explosives involved.

I don't think a top job at NIST is still for the giving for you.
Since you make the same glaring mistake as NIST first made (it was a plain LIE, no physicist there is that STUPID), and NIST had to teeth grindingly retract it later.
Both of you defined a state of free fall as being the complete time of the collapse taken at some arbitrary point BEFORE any sign of movement of the roof rim can be spotted, divided by the total time it took to come down.

I'll give you an example of your backwards reasoning that you hopefully will understand better :
We both go on a drinking tour and decide to go sky diving. The plane brings us, two drunks, up to 5 km high, you put a stopwatch in my hands and push it to start it. Then tell me to push it again to stop it, when you unfold your parachute after having freely fallen for a period of 30 secs. Then you drink 2 other whiskeys, and jump.
Down on the ground where we meet again, you ask me: How fast did I fell before I opened my chute?
And me, the other drunk, tells you : at 66 % of free fall acceleration.

Luckily a math and physics teacher is drinking milk at the bar, and explains us where we both went off the cliff with our drunken stupor calculation. Can you now too?


The term "period of free fall " seems to have landed in your brain in the wrong slot.

There are 2.25 seconds of long moments of instantaneous free fall found in the collapse of WTC-7, first by David Chandler, then admitted by NIST.
That is an ETERNITY in Newtonian physics. The whole top of WTC-7, the 47th floor down to the 13th floor, went during a PERIOD of 2.25 seconds at FREE FALL ACCELERATION SPEED through the 34 meter high space first occupied by its 13th to 7th floor, with no measurable resistance at all.
Only when it met the still firmly erect 7th and lower floors, it DECELERATED BELOW FREE FALL SPEED.

And that PERIOD of free fall means undoubtedly, that human hands helped to eradicate those 7 floors (14 to 7), and you tell me what other means than EXPLOSIVES could do that to an over-engineered 47 stories high steel framed high-rise building.

www.physicsclassroom.com...

A simple rule to bear in mind is that all objects (regardless of their mass) experience the same acceleration when in a state of free fall. When the only force is gravity, the acceleration is the same value for all objects. On Earth, this acceleration value is 9.8 m/s/s. This is such an important value in physics that it is given a special name - the acceleration of gravity - and a special symbol - g.

Note to self : Never go sky-diving or base jumping with skyeagle409. Better don't get in the same plane either.

originally posted by: Informer1958
I could go on about this topic, however I believe I have made my point to what the Truth Movement is up against when it comes to exposing the fallacies of the OS of 911. By no means, I am not suggesting that COINTELPRO is being used on ATS.

You forget that I was there. I experienced it.

I went to the early meetings at St. Mark's church in New York City where a few college professors, journalists, and community activists were concerned with the rush-to-judgement in the aftermath of 9/11. Their primary initial mission involved planning how to pressure local, state, and federal government law enforcement agencies to engage in a more serious investigation.

I was at the meeting that suddenly saw nearly a dozen people from an anti-WTO anarchist group dominate the discussion via shouting and vitriol.

I was at the meeting with a (now) confirmed COINTELPRO agent began pushing the group toward extremist theories and confrontational street actions.

I experience how the early days of what became "9/11 Truth" was hijacked by angry anarchists and agents provocateur, forcing out the academicians and journalists.

The "Truth Movement" embodies the fallacies of 9/11.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

#We can go on like this forever...

Arguments and counter arguments.

As far as free fall, demolition explosions, thermite, and Molten steel are concerrned, they can be effectively ruled out because after 14 years, there is still no evidence to support those claims.