WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Korg Trinity

If the question is 'following four plane crashes the results were three buildings collapsing uniforming into their own footprint at free fall speed,...

Video and photo evidence prove that none of the WTC buildings collapsed at free fall speed.

... that the planes were able to get into one of the most heaviest protected no fly zones in the US unabated...

To let you know, our air defenses are not geared for inside border interceptions. Case in point in the following photo.

The Day the White House was Struck by an Airplane

The exact opposite... The video evidence clearly shows the rate of collapse as being indistinguishable from free fall speed!

This is another debunkers technique... claim the opposite as to what has been found....

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

It was swfitly carted to Staten Island, then rapidly sold to Chinese firms by waste management companies owned by the same "Mob Families" accused of using sub-standard steel in the WTC construction.

Sounds like just another felony in the long list of gov. felonies to me?

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

I'll ask you a question... why do you think there are so many Architects, Engineers, Pilots and Scientists willing to put their reputations on the line to come forward and tell it as it is??

I'll let Sarah Corriher answer that. She used to work for Richard Gage.

Richard Gage has an average $60,000 salary for his charity work at the supposed non-profit organization. (plus expenses)

a perfectly-profiled girlfriend suddenly appeared for Richard. Of course, she was a blonde bombshell. They began touring Europe with the money that had been donated to AE911Truth.

healthwyze.org...

originally posted by: waypastvne

I'm going to ask you a couple of VERY simple aerodynamic questions involving forces on an inverted aircraft. UA 93 was inverted at a 40 degree angle of attack and pulling .64 Gs positive at time of impact.

Question: What happens to the lift vector when you turn an aircraft upside down pulling positive Gs ?

Question: Here is a drawing of a 40 deg. inverted Boeing 757. I put some different coloured arrows on it. Can you tell me what force each of those different coloured arrows represents ?

If you can't answer these simple questions then why should your opinion matter ?

Yes of course.

1. Lift vector would be reversed.... as in the wings would be pulling the aircraft downwards... reversed lift..... not that the pilot could do much about it but the stick would also be reversed... quite sadly there was a case recently of an italian pilot flying inverted in formation with a wingman, and died when he accidentally pulled the stick the wrong way....

2. Orientation, coordinates of momentum, direction of gravitation.

Hardly challenging....

Perhaps you should give me some vector math to complete.... boring but would be me pleasure....

By the way the energy distribution which is what you're getting at... at the impact would have been higher than if the plane had crashed more parallel in relation to the land...

This doesn't however explain the total and utter disappearance of the plane at the site of the crash. yes it would have been a higher energy collision... not so high that all the matter simply evaporates into thin air...

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

I'll ask you a question... why do you think there are so many Architects, Engineers, Pilots and Scientists willing to put their reputations on the line to come forward and tell it as it is??

I'll let Sarah Corriher answer that. She used to work for Richard Gage.

Richard Gage has an average $60,000 salary for his charity work at the supposed non-profit organization. (plus expenses)

a perfectly-profiled girlfriend suddenly appeared for Richard. Of course, she was a blonde bombshell. They began touring Europe with the money that had been donated to AE911Truth.

healthwyze.org...

And Richard what... shares his $60k salary among the thousands of Architects, Engineers, Pilots and Scientists then?? They all might have enough to buy a pack of gum each....

a reply to: Korg Trinity

This doesn't however explain the total and utter disappearance of the plane at the site of the crash. yes it would have been a higher energy collision... not so high that all the matter simply evaporates into thin air...

Over 90% of the wreckage of United 93 was recovered along with remains of the passengers and crew.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

The exact opposite... The video evidence clearly shows the rate of collapse as being indistinguishable from free fall speed!

Let's take another look at this photo and you will notice that dust plumes and debris, which are falling at free fall speed, are outpacing the collapse of the WTC building, which is proof the WTC building is not collapsing at free fall speed because the dust plumes and debris actually strike the ground while the collapse is still in progress.

Photo: No Free Fall Collapse

Now, let's take a look to see how long it took for WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7 to collapse.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

And Richard what... shares his $60k salary among the thousands of Architects, Engineers, Pilots and Scientists then??

Let's take a look at Richard Gage.

ARCHITECT Magazine
The Magzine of the American Institute of Architects

All of Gage’s so-called evidence has been rebutted in peer-reviewed papers, by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, by the National Institute for Standards and Technology, by the American Society of Civil Engineers, by the 9/11 Commission Report, and, perhaps most memorably, by the 110-year-old engineering journal Popular Mechanics.

What is more interesting than these bizarre and debunked conspiracy theories is the way that Gage places his AIA membership front and center in his presentations. He seems to be attempting to cloak his organization in the officialdom of the venerable 155-year-old professional institution, even as AIA wants nothing to do with his organization. At the start of his latest film, he explains that he is “a licensed architect of over 20 years and member of the American Institute of Architects.”

Gage often seems to wield his AIA status in promoting his conspiracy theories. In making his case, he also regularly cites that more than 100 AIA members and at least six AIA Fellows have signed his petition calling for a new investigation. In total, Gage says that more than 1,700 of the petition’s roughly 16,000 signatures are from architects and engineers.

During the screening, Gage was at the very least intimating that his organization had been invited to AIA officially. “I can’t tell you how grateful we were to have been accepted to be here in the boardroom at the national headquarters,” Gage said. “We hope this is the beginning of a very productive relationship.”

Aside from Gage, though, there was not a single other architect in the room, much less an official from AIA, or even another member. The 80-strong crowd was made up largely of members of the local 9/11 Truth movement and other political
activists.

Architects Shy From Truther 9/11 Conspiracy Theory

Architects didn't show up for a 9/11-architecture-conspiracy documentary screening—and the AIA doesn't want its name associated with Trutherism.

It is somewhat troubling that he (Richard Gage) sort of portrays the notion that we have a relations.

AIA Scott Frank said: “We don’t have any relationship with his organization whatsoever” “It is somewhat troubling that he sort of portrays the notion that we have a relationship when we certainly do not,” “There is absolutely zero relationship … [between our groups], nor will there ever be in the future.”

www.architectmagazine.com...


There are 120,000 members of ASME(American Society of Mechanical Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 370,000 members of IEEE(Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 40,000 members of AIChE(American Institute of Chemical Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 35,000 members of AIAA (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) who do not question the NIST report.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

Yes of course.

1. Lift vector would be reversed.... as in the wings would be pulling the aircraft downwards... reversed lift.....

This is correct

but the stick would also be reversed...

This is not correct. The stick moves the aircraft in the same direction regardless of orientation to the earth.

2. Orientation, coordinates of momentum, direction of gravitation.

I have 5 arrows. You have 3 answers. None of your answers are linked to the colour of any arrows. Try again.

Perhaps you should give me some vector math to complete....

Yes lets do that. Maybe then you will understand why an inverted aircraft likes to dig a hole and bury themselves and non inverted aircraft like to scatter parts every where.

Lets compare vector sums. Below is a 100 ton boeing 757 inverted 40 deg and pulling .64 Gs



And here we have the same 100 ton 767 non inverted at 40 deg pulling same .64 Gs plus force of gravity.



Compare vector sums and tell me which one is pointed into the ground.

When all forces on an aircraft are focused in the direction it's traveling , it is no longer an aircraft it is a bullet.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Now, let's take a look to see how long it took for WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7 to collapse.

Firstly, RKowen is a complete joke...and that's being kind. Secondly, he doesn't even mention WTC7, which is what the video from the above poster refers to. 2.25 seconds at freefall acceleration is proven beyond a doubt and even admitted to by NIST, so why do you keep denying it?

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Korg Trinity

This doesn't however explain the total and utter disappearance of the plane at the site of the crash. yes it would have been a higher energy collision... not so high that all the matter simply evaporates into thin air...

Over 90% of the wreckage of United 93 was recovered along with remains of the passengers and crew.

Please provide me a measurement of mass of the plane prior to crash and the mass of the recovered material....

originally posted by: waypastvne

Compare vector sums and tell me which one is pointed into the ground.

When all forces on an aircraft are focused in the direction it's traveling , it is no longer an aircraft it is a bullet.

Very patronising!

I answered... you failed to understand...

Orientation & Coordinates of momentum - direction red arrow is direction of movement and you have filled the speed in as around 500 knots,

Coordinates of momentum & direction of gravitation - direction of green arrow.... direction of force and you have filled in the value as a total force mass equivalent as 264 tons. This would indicate the total amount of lift....

and your inverted plane the calculation for an impact is apparent as there is a forward thrust times the mass equivalent of the reverse lift of 64 tons...

The calculation kicks out a value for the inverted impact as an energy of around .5 tonnes equivalent of TNT

This is an explosion of around twice that size...



So as I already said the angle of impact has an effect of course on how the energy is distributed... Why for example do you think the asteroid that occurred in russia the other year was not so severe even though it was traveling at 30k kph.... It was because the trajectory was shallow on entry to our atmosphere... the energy was dissipated over a greater area.... the same is true of why you can break glass with a pen point but may struggle with another object....

You have already tested me on wether I am able to understand math and engineering... I would appreciate it if you could now discuss the subject without patronising me.

To reiterate what I already said in my previous post.... I agree the energy of the impact would have been much higher given the trajectory of the plane than if the plane had not been inverted.... that still does not explain the entire plane vaporising....

I am still awaiting an analysis on the mass of the recovered materials from the scene...

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

Orientation & Coordinates of momentum - direction red arrow is direction of movement and you have filled the speed in as around 500 knots,

Coordinates of momentum & direction of gravitation - direction of green arrow....

This is the correct answer:


The red arrow represents thrust. The two sources of energy that can produce thrust are engine power and gravity. (A gliders forward motion comes only from gravity. when you point the nose of a plane down it speeds up)

The yellow arrow represents drag. The two sources of this force are aerodynamic drag (parasitic and induced) and gravity (when you point the nose of a plane up it slows down)

The blue arrow represents lift. This force comes mostly from angle of attack (angle of wing in relation to relative wind) and also from the low pressure created by the airfoil. Flt 93 was pulling .64 G's positive just prior to impact. so the wings were producing lift in the direction of the blue arrow.

The green arrow in this case represents Inertial acceleration (also known as G force, angular momentum, Centrifugal force,ect) this force is produced by a change in the angle of attack (aircraft carving a curve in the pitch axis) and was producing a force equal to 64% of the aircrafts weighting in the direction of the green arrow.

The black arrow represents gravity. This force comes from the gravitational pull of the earth, and is always directed at the earths centre of mass regardless of the aircrafts attitude. The earths gravitational pull is constant it never goes away. It can be negated by Inertial acceleration (0 G's, negative G's) but it is always there.


You have what could be called a very basic understanding of aerodynamics. Your understanding in not good enough for your opinion to be of any value.

a reply to: Flatcoat

Firstly, RKowen is a complete joke...and that's being kind. Secondly, he doesn't even mention WTC7, which is what the video from the above poster refers to. 2.25 seconds at freefall acceleration is proven beyond a doubt and even admitted to by NIST,

That is false. Total collapse for WTC 7 to fall was 17 seconds. Case in point and notice that the collapse begins with the collapse of the penthouse.



To further add, there are no demolition explosions as WTC 7 collapses.



To sum it up, WTC 7 did not fall at free fall speed as shown in the videos and there were no sound of demolition explosions as WTC 7 collapsed and no evidence of explosives was ever found in the rubble. Verdict: No explosives involved.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Please provide me a measurement of mass of the plane prior to crash and the mass of the recovered material....

Let's take a look at this video and you will be able to tell us what happened to United 93.

originally posted by: waypastvne

You have what could be called a very basic understanding of aerodynamics. Your understanding in not good enough for your opinion to be of any value.

And I care what your opinion is because?

You used two diagrams, with different coloured arrows.... then asked me to answer... I did and then you used the other picture with the other coloured arrows... Are you confused what you asked me? Re-Read what you asked....

You have not actually responded to anything I wrote... Silence can be taken in many ways.. however you did not remain silent, instead you reply with a generic response that could have been written even before I responded... as it didn't address any aspect of the information I gave you.

From what I can see you have added nothing to the thread other than a veiled attempt to either scare me off, which would have worked too if I had not been who I am or to bate me into an drawn out conversation that could have been had in half the words...

My physiological analysis of your personality is that you know you are intelligent, but you fail to realise that there are other people out there that are also equal and greater in intellect than yourself... This leads you to making errors in judgment and in an attempt to lead a conversation you found yourself right back at the beginning having said nothing of consequence.

Should I employ the same tactics on yourself I suggest you would be rather embarrassed since I am 100% sure you wouldn't even know what you were looking at or what the math was used for.

Suffice to say I don't rate your rating of me and frankly think the attempt at putting yourself into a position to even judge me is laughable.

A reply to: SkepticOverlord about WTC eyewitnesses who heard explosion sounds and told the media about it :

SkepticOverlord : Nothing in those accounts is inconsistent with the sound of heavy steel structures failing under extreme stress. They heard what sounded like explosions. Lots of heavy steel failed. It makes a big boom when that happens. Logically, that's what they heard.

If you are so sure about that, then this FOIA freed video by Charles Ewing Smith with that huge explosion sound in it, must for sure make you severely doubt your own words after seriously contemplating my explanation following that video.

From my O.P.: DEEP SOUND at WTC-7 (4seconds pass, then the E.penthouse collapses)
WTC 7 - HUGE DEEP EXPLOSION (by Charles Ewing Smith from A&Efor9/11TRUTH) :
www.youtube.com...



I gave in page 1 already multiple links to the original video footage as received from NIST, by Judicial Watch, so don't believe that that sound was dubbed in. It perfectly fits in my OP, btw. Did you read all this thread's 27 pages its very few posts of importance for my Opening Post?

Review your own words and then explain the logical problem for your train of thoughts, arising from hearing the total length of the AUDIO of the full collapse sequence of WTC-7, from this above video from NIST, at last FOIA freed by court order.
And from reviewing my O.P. diagram with the seismic spikes exactly following the recorded video sounds I mentioned and linked to.
And after studying the AUDIO file diagram in the end of the video, do you hear or see the rest of ALL those columns, IDENTICAL to column 79 its steel column, failing and falling in that audiogram?
Are there lots of identical amplitudes in that last seconds long group of smaller audio spikes, like your supposedly snapped column 79 their neighboring columns logically had to have produced too?
I see and hear faintly ONLY FALLING ones...all those 47 stories high columns and crossbeams starting to fall 12.5 long seconds after that first huge bomb explosion's audio spike.

files.abovetopsecret.com...


The huge bomb explodes in the lower floors, then no sound during 4 secs, then the East and West penthouse are slowly faiLLing in 8.5 secs, shown by the 9 explosive audio spikes.

As also clearly heard in the Ashley Banfield interview ), then the whole building sinks through 7 floors (Nrs 13 to 7) at gravitational acceleration speed and then at the point of massive deceleration (floor 7), starts disintegrating from the bottom up, while at the same time crushing those lowest 7 floors.
After its 34 top floors passed already those already demolished by 9 explosions 13th to 7th floors, and then impacted the lowest 7 floors mass, which was the point where the first deceleration kicked in.

Sinking during the first 2.25 secs at gravitational acceleration speed, then deceleration kicks in after the whole massive 13th to 47th floors passed those 7th to 13th floor space in 2.25 secs, which building space did not slow down its acceleration at all, which means there was no resistance of any importance to slow down that huge mass. As shown by the last cloud of audio spikes starting 12.5 secs after that huge first explosion, which last audio cloud shows the buildings total global collapse, producing however much lower amplitudes than the huge bomb going off.

Note that the group of higher amplitude audio spikes just before the sounds of the sinking building start, is the loud alarming voice of the guy near the camera microphone (WOW,Wow, etc.) and the loud shouting of the rest of the crowd.

Take in account that the cameraman was about 5 blocks away, NNE from WTC-7, so sounds from WTC-7 were severely muffled by especially all the steam, vapor, dust and smoke in the air, and all the high and low buildings and foliage in between.

Take firmly in account what NIST wrote about how they thought the collapse of WTC-7 initiated.
By FAILING of ONE single steel column number 79 its cross beam connections over the height of 7 floor spaces.
NIST wrote that column 79 then BUCKLED, (NOTE, it did not SNAP).
Then NIST wrote that the rest of those steel core and exterior columns buckled and FAILED TOO as a result of that first one failing.
NIST also wrote that columns buckle, don't snap, at ANY collapse initiations.

You are making quite the same mistake as nearly everyone around here, and it is injected in your logical operating brain by those debunker sites which are fed by cleverly operating Military Propaganda Units that know every trick in the human psychology literature.

This important misunderstanding by most ATS members about steel snapping under live loads has to be corrected immediately, since : STEEL DOES NOT SNAP UNDER LIVE LOADS, IT ONLY BUCKLES ! So, when pushed, -not pulled-, it buckles.
Steel does only snap in steel-test machines, when stretched up- or downwards by pulling one end until failure, to calculate the steel's strength.
When in another test the machine pushes on the test strip, it will ALWAYS buckle, and never snap.

Such stretching until LOUD failure, could have only miraculously occurred in the WTC2S and WTC1N collapses, after f.ex. one column faiLLed by buckling, then the collapse front advanced downwards and folded the buckled column over a full 180 degrees angle double, and then eventually still connected cross beams could have exerted the same forces on that folded column as in a machine stress test. I doubt it, since bolts or welds in their connections would fail much earlier.
Some horizontal crossbeams perhaps, which were lots thinner than the vertical columns, they only needed to fold 90 degrees and then eventually stretched downwards by still connected other structural steel.

How come then, we hear only ONE huge explosion sound ?
If your and NIST's theory was true, we should hear a whole train of identical HUGE explosion sounds, the sound of heavy steel structures failing under extreme stress, since according to you, we heard what sounded like explosions.
Since you said : Logically, that's what they heard.


Then where are the resulting ROWS of OTHER JUST as LOUD HUGE explosion sounds we should be hearing then thereafter?

Following your logic, sounds of them ALL FAILING as the same 'heavy steel that makes a big boom when that happens'.
Lots of failing identical vertical steel that ALL TOGETHER held that 47 story building firmly up all those years, did however made a lot less sound then that first huge explosive KaBOOM.
In fact, sounds nearly not audible for the untrained ears, while that first one certainly can be heard by the same ears..

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Take a look at this photo and tell us why you do not see an intact airframe of Caspian Airlines 7908. Look at the size of that crater. What happened to the aircraft?

Caspian Airlines 7908 Crash Site

Now, look at the crater at the crash site of a Bellview Airlines B-737. Where's the aircraft?

Bellview Airlines Crash Site

I advice everyone to study the difference in audio pitch between steel failing (buckling or snapping) and steel being cut by explosives at cutter charge speeds of over 9,500 m/s by its white hot plasma stream.
Buckling steel that high up or that far away from microphones can't be registered by them. And snapping steel was absent in those three WTC collapses.
Most consumer video cameras will cut off the high end of such audio. That's why we don't hear much difference between both, when recorded with simple consumer audio equipment.

But when buckling or explosively cut steel are recorded with state of the art equipment, like used by the networks (in this above video) the difference is staggering when such audio files are played on professional audio equipment. As can be seen in the audio diagram at the end of that Charles Ewing Smith video.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

that still does not explain the entire plane vaporising....

When the truth movement finally gets its "independent, under oath, with subpoena power, investigation". When you tell them the plane vaporised, and they drag the wreckage of UA 93 into the court room, What are you going to say?

originally posted by: waypastvne
I came across this article today concerning the wreckage of FLT 93, It appears the wreckage was stored for a wile at a small airport before being moved to iron mountain. A curator from the National Museum of American History took some photos wile collecting articles. Since the truth movement is fond of telling us there was no wreckage,, i thought I'd post the photos here.


americanhistory.si.edu...

One of the longest-lasting efforts was the quest for artifacts from Flight 93. After several years of discussions with company representatives and a myriad of attorneys, we finally gained access to the wreckage of the plane. When we arrived at the small airport where the material was stored, we found the airplane wreckage was in 20’ long ocean-going shipping containers. When the doors were opened we saw the debris was in amazingly small pieces. David worked the front of the piles while I climbed into the container, wriggling over the top of the pile, trying not to get cut by the sharp fragments of fuselage. In the near dark I looked for artifacts with a flashlight and fought back fears about what I might accidentally encounter. The wreckage smelled of jet fuel, moldy cloth, and other strange odors. This was not an assignment for anyone afraid of the dark. At the end of day, reeking of sweat and airplane wreckage, we threw away our work clothes before flying home.

Wreckage from Flight 93

Curator Peter Liebhold looking for artifacts to collect

Curator David Shayt with an object that is now part of the museum’s collections

Collecting often requires archival research. Bill and I spent many days going through thousands of photos maintained by the FBI. From crime scene images to haunting photos shot by participants who did not survive, the pictures put a human face on the September 11 attacks. Viewing the images made the experience far more personal. What I most desperately try to forget are things I saw in the photographs.

We were very driven yet remained respectful. We never directly contacted the relatives of someone killed—we always went through intermediaries so families could easily refuse our requests. Many of our conversations with participants and donors were hours long and often included a lot of crying—us included. It is difficult dealing with death and frankly none of us were prepared for the task. At times each one of us was ready to throw in the towel but the support and pressure of the others kept us going.

Like soldiers and their war stories, curators don’t often talk about the experience of collecting. I am proud of our efforts collecting artifacts related to September 11. It is an important piece of history and should be preserved.

Photos of some of the debris on display:

Part of the R in AIRLINES starboard side in front of exit.

For those truthers that want to tell us that FLT 93 was shot down at Shanksville then landed in Cleveland leaving no wreckage at Shanksville that was spread out over too large an area to be from a crash even though it didn't exist.... Ya we've herd it before, but it's still funny.