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My take on the UFO phenomenon

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posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: TrueMessiah
a reply to: Bloodydagger

What puzzles me about this is you have those who will attest to humanity not being the only intelligent life in the universe but for some reason, our solar system or sector of space is totally off limits in regards to visitation. Its like none of the sightings, none of the testimony from gov. officials, none of the images captured by SOHO/ISS etc./we've had over the past 70 years can ever be attributed to this suspected "other intelligent life". What's the deal, Earth must has some kind of quarantine I don't know about?




If Earth doesn't have a quarantine, it should.

We'd rape, pillage and steal a swatch of destruction
across the Universe if we ever got out of our system
with any high technology.

Kev




posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: Bloodydagger


Well here's my take on things Do I believe other life is out there YES it's a numbers thing.
Do I think it visits here NO again it's a numbers thing vast distances /time etc.

Many members give fanciful stories of connections and communications with these so called ufo's YET if challenged to provide photographic/video proof of their encounters EXCUSE after EXCUSE is made I wonder why.

So if these members claims are true in any way grow some NADS and provide the proof, if you can't stop the BS.

It's the same with all the conspiracy CLICHES thrown about on here about people , scientists etc etc having proof but TPTB will get them, yet another get off the hook excuse.

As for photographic/video evidence well we have MANY members on here really clued up on that subject from CGI/3D artists, pro/semi-pro and long time hobby photographers and even astronomers.

Ufo's are now an industry that's the real problem you just have to look at some of the people making money from the gullible via youtube, lecture circuit, dvd's books etc much of that BS has been dissected on here with explanations but of course many wont except it, even from members on here because if we do we are disinfo agents I would prefer to say educators especially if we are exposing con men who take advantage of peoples lack of knowledge.

I joined here because I was told I would see proof if I do I will back it 100% but as my hobby is photography I will use my 35+ years taking pictures and using photographic equipment to expose anything I think is BS, and like minded members like me will usually back the claims up with REAL evidence.


edit on 26-7-2015 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

Klass was only complaining about his own cursed situation. As a naysayer, it was never in a position where those that knew the truth about UFOs would confide in him. Why would they when he was a fairly high-level spokesman against the phenomena? He, in effected, cursed himself.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Bloodydagger


Well here's my take on things Do I believe other life is out there YES it's a numbers thing.
Do I think it visits here NO again it's a numbers thing vast distances /time etc.

Many members give fanciful stories of connections and communications with these so called ufo's YET if challenged to provide photographic/video proof of their encounters EXCUSE after EXCUSE is made I wonder why.

So if these members claims are true in any way grow some NADS and provide the proof, if you can't stop the BS.

It's the same with all the conspiracy CLICHES thrown about on here about people , scientists etc etc having proof but TPTB will get them, yet another get off the hook excuse.

As for photographic/video evidence well we have MANY members on here really clued up on that subject from CGI/3D artists, pro/semi-pro and long time hobby photographers and even astronomers.

Ufo's are now an industry that's the real problem you just have to look at some of the people making money from the gullible via youtube, lecture circuit, dvd's books etc much of that BS has been dissected on here with explanations but of course many wont except it, even from members on here because if we do we are disinfo agents I would prefer to say educators especially if we are exposing con men who take advantage of peoples lack of knowledge.

I joined here because I was told I would see proof if I do I will back it 100% but as my hobby is photography I will use my 35+ years taking pictures and using photographic equipment to expose anything I think is BS, and like minded members like me will usually back the claims up with REAL evidence.



No. You did not get it. Knowing they exist is you personally seeing them. Screw the numbers. It is amazing when you see UFO yourself.
You will.


D0
edit on 26-7-2015 by darkorange because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 07:01 PM
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Going back to the original question posed, the only way we (and by that I mean everyone) will know for sure is when what ANY visiting species would actually do is land their craft and either say;

"Hello, brothers and sisters, you are not alone!"
or
"All your base are belong to us..."

There is no other way.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: 321Go
Going back to the original question posed, the only way we (and by that I mean everyone) will know for sure is when what ANY visiting species would actually do is land their craft and either say;

"Hello, brothers and sisters, you are not alone!"
or
"All your base are belong to us..."

There is no other way.


yes, there is another way. Is when you see it.

D0



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 07:58 PM
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However much I want to, I know I wont. It's not real...



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 09:28 PM
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originally posted by: Bloodydagger

Think about it - Even when believers cite video evidence or photographic evidence (two of the best kinds of evidence possible), people still don't believe it. Nowadays, videos and photographs can be edited or doctored in so many different ways that skeptics will never accept them as good evidence. This basically makes video and photographic evidence non-existent today. When a skeptic sees it, they will most likely just write it off as "made up" or "edited in some way". On top of this, people will tell of their personal encounters with extraterrestrials and UFOs, but people will just think they are either crazy, on drugs, or making the story up as a hoax. My question here is if all these different forms of 'evidence' are just going to be written off all the time as fake or made up, how will UFO researchers ever overcome this burden of proof they have against them? How will they ever prove the existence of UFOs or extraterrestrials (if they do exist) when rarely no one will look at any evidence without automatically saying it is a hoax or an optical illusion, even when they have trouble proving it?


You make an excellent point and I don't want to be a party pooper but I think short of a Star Trek style situation where the Vulcan's land in Bozeman, Montana; that the chance of official acknowledgement of ET existence is at best, slight.

If you think about it, We have already had disclosure multiple times and by many... many witnesses. Military officers, Astronauts, Scientists have all gone on the record to varying degrees that UFO's do in fact exist. Photographic and Videographic evidence is either deemed unexplainable or explained away as a hoax; furthermore, statements made by credible witnesses are either chalked up to an earthy phenomena or also dismissed out of hand as simply being unexplainable.

It's enough to make one to simply throw up their hands in the air. An excellent book by Leslie Kean (Generals, Pilots and government officials go on the record) demonstrates the quality of some of these witnesses.

I don't think there is any easy answer - Disinformation has progressed to such a degree that until (any) government comes forward to the international community with proof, there will not be any acknowledgement of ET's existence. Sadly, any "proof" that private citizens come up with, I believe, will continue to be looked at as a curiosity and simply be largely ignored.

As a side note - I also had a close encounter as a kid (35 years ago or so) where a UFO flew over our family's car and it was close enough that it felt like you could stand on the hood and touch it. I'm guessing it was no more than 20-25 feet above the ground - about 20 feet long and likely 8-10 feet in height. Anyway, I won't get into the story today but rest assured, definitely something exists.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 09:41 PM
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I do believe that the UFO's are real, but what they are, or how a UFO is usually depicted is off from the common conception of just metal craft with/or without rivets, or that was what I first thought of what a UFO should look like. Some of these craft actually have an incredibly bright glow, comparable to that of first or second magnitude star, and move very differently from that of a spinning top, to something like a butterfly flapping or falling leaf, like dipping down, then bouncing up more profusely then before it dipped. Some also move like flocks of a feather to even a snake like movement, or simultaneously like Legion or a shoal of fish....


Thing is, these UFO's seem intelligent, more so then one would like to believe other then noticing it being controlled, almost to the point of looking alive. Which kind of gives a more supernatural subtlety or vibe at times, almost to the point it knows it being watched. Some of them seem more how should we say, shy, while some UFO seem much more prominent in its appeal to display it self.

I haven't the faintest idea of who or what they could, whether it being E.T, or E.D, like something that temporal or the idea of conscious energy, which kind of feel to New Ageous for me. Even to the point of being believed to be time travelers might go along with the E.D.H, but hey that even more outrageous.

Ether these craft are of A.I, or it some form of technology being linked with biology, and extreme forms of consciousness.
edit on 26-7-2015 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 01:24 AM
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a reply to: darkorange

No it's YOU who thinks they have seen a ufo that's all that matters to you but if you see the amount of threads and posts on here that are obviously NOT.

I have been looking at the sky for 35+ years, first Moon picture through a telescope was taken then so I have a good understanding of my hemisphere of the sky, strange all these ufo believers that see them constantly yet they probably spend less time looking up than I do and don't understand what's up there as well.


edit on 27-7-2015 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 09:06 AM
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The people who are lucky enough to get to see a real UFO know that we are not alone in this Universe and/or there are secret aircraft that the government isn't telling us about. Either way, these people have a story to tell now and generally, most people, including skeptics, will listen respectfully and form their own conclusions based on the observers words and evidence.

I've been lucky enough to see a UFO, and when my post count is high enough I'll make a good post about it. My story isn't as spectacular as most sightings but I've never been disrespected telling the story and most people I've told seem to believe me. The one thing I wish I could convey better was the feeling I had during the encounter because it is here where I feel most vulnerable telling the story. Even now, I feel as if I would be made fun of or joked about or called a liar if I describe everything I saw.



posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 01:42 PM
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I am fairly new here, but hope I can weigh in on the discussion. My background: I have been active as a scientist in the field of biology for over 15 years, with a PhD in biology and postdoc experience from high-ranking US institutes (UC and Ivy League); I currently live in Europe.


originally posted by: EarthPilgrim
If you think about it, We have already had disclosure multiple times and by many... many witnesses. Military officers, Astronauts, Scientists have all gone on the record to varying degrees that UFO's do in fact exist. Photographic and Videographic evidence is either deemed unexplainable or explained away as a hoax; furthermore, statements made by credible witnesses are either chalked up to an earthy phenomena or also dismissed out of hand as simply being unexplainable.

It's enough to make one to simply throw up their hands in the air. An excellent book by Leslie Kean (Generals, Pilots and government officials go on the record) demonstrates the quality of some of these witnesses.

I don't think there is any easy answer - Disinformation has progressed to such a degree that until (any) government comes forward to the international community with proof, there will not be any acknowledgement of ET's existence. Sadly, any "proof" that private citizens come up with, I believe, will continue to be looked at as a curiosity and simply be largely ignored.

I, too, can recommend Kean's book. Several other "high-value" witnesses have come forward as well, who had much to lose and little to gain by doing so. The two "UFOs and the national security state" books by Richard Dolan are also really good in my opinion.
Perhaps the most important thing the latter prove to me, is the fact that there clearly is a government cover up. These books and others combined with the witnesses have also convinced me that there are Unidentified Flying Objects, that they are under intelligent control (be they alien or something else) and that the nature of these UFOs (or, perhaps more likely, the fact that they are clueless about their exact nature?) are the subject of the government cover up.

From a biological and statistical perspective it seems highly improbable to me that Earth would be the only "living planet" in the universe. I would also be surprised if Earth is the only body with life in our solar system; hopefully we'll find out within a few years. (So far, all evidence from Mars is consistent with life on that planet, however, all the data still leaves room for additional (non-life) explanations as well.

If you assume life is present elsewhere, the odds that we are the only intelligent life in the universe are nil. For an explanation, see e.g. The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins (which may in the process cure you from being religious) -- the fact that life arises out of nothing is a matter of chance / luck; however, evolution has nothing to do with luck and is likely to always result in intelligent life forms. That does not automatically mean that UFOs are related to such alien intelligent life and I have never seen any evidence that has really convinced me that they are, including a personal UFO sighting. (Although, like many, I really hope they are and that we will not fall victim to "the curse" by Klass...)

However, arguments that others would be too far away and therefore would never make it to Earth tell more about their writer than about the actual situation. The fact that with our current abilities we could not make the leap and therefore no-one else can is short-sighted at best and arrogant at worst.
Consider, for instance, that in the past 5 or so years in my scientific field of biology more new knowledge was gathered than all of humanity has done in all of recorded history. Similarly, our world has completely transformed by the combustion engine, flight, telecommunications, computers, etc. We are in the steep part of an exponential growth curve and we can barely fathom where we will be in 25 years.
Now try to imagine what will happen over the next 1,000 years...



posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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Interesting, but life is not at all related or connected to intelligence in any way.

As a biology student and professional, I would hope you would know that life is geared toward selective mates and taking advantage of adapting environments. Intelligence arose in certain creatures as a means of a competitive edge in a congested resource-limited environment. In no bio-science or evolutionary theory book I have ever read does it state that life means intelligence. You'd certainly have to quote your sources on that claim.

That aside, in all probability some orders of life exist elsewhere – I personally don't doubt it. You can also easily argue on the basis of probability that intelligent life also exists elsewhere, but the question is where, when and how often does that happen? I think it's an extremely rare occurrence and is subject to many billions of random but significant factors happening at strategically important points in the development of that intelligent life – certainly not impossible, but rare. Plus, there is no guarantee that it will happen or has happened when our two species are in existence together. Both space and time are unimaginably large; it's analogous of two random people placing a pin in exactly the same place on our planet at the same time. Again, not impossible, but an extremely rare event.

After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: 321Go
Interesting, but life is not at all related or connected to intelligence in any way.

As a biology student and professional, I would hope you would know that life is geared toward selective mates and taking advantage of adapting environments. Intelligence arose in certain creatures as a means of a competitive edge in a congested resource-limited environment. In no bio-science or evolutionary theory book I have ever read does it state that life means intelligence. You'd certainly have to quote your sources on that claim.

I guess I should have communicated that more clearly. I do not claim that life per definition means intelligent life. What I stated is that IF life exists elsewhere, it is extremely unlikely that none of that life will be intelligent. Exactly for the reason you state: intelligence provides a competitive edge. This is of course speculation. Just as much as claiming that no other life can exist or that no other intelligent life can exist (though neither of those options could ever be proven). The thing is that we have only one case, one example, one data point, so whatever anyone claims is just as much speculation as the opposite.


originally posted by: 321Go
That aside, in all probability some orders of life exist elsewhere – I personally don't doubt it. You can also easily argue on the basis of probability that intelligent life also exists elsewhere, but the question is where, when and how often does that happen? I think it's an extremely rare occurrence and is subject to many billions of random but significant factors happening at strategically important points in the development of that intelligent life – certainly not impossible, but rare. Plus, there is no guarantee that it will happen or has happened when our two species are in existence together. Both space and time are unimaginably large; it's analogous of two random people placing a pin in exactly the same place on our planet at the same time. Again, not impossible, but an extremely rare event.

This is what I mean, it is all a matter of beliefs, not based on any data. I believe life is abundant, that whenever you find a planet (or similar) that has remotely the right conditions that life will always arise; like an exothermic reaction.


originally posted by: 321Go
After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.

Indeed, from our point of view this makes little sense. I would even be surprised if they would come here in person. Why risk that if you could just as easily send an unmanned probe. Besides a few trips to the moon, that is what we do.
But who knows what an alien life form is after, what their point of reference is...



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 10:39 PM
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a reply to: mirageman





What if there is some form of energy in the universe that interacts with our brains that causes us to have an experience that is very real to the recipient but goes undetected by others. We may think what we perceive is very real because we can only trust our own sense but what if we can't trust them?


And does this form of energy make some people forget that flying saucers show up in photographs and radar?



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: mirageman




The question I would ask you is :

"Do you think science will discover and reveal the existence of alien life before a UFO researcher?"


Well, seeing as UFO researchers like Jim Marrs, David Jacobs, Karla Turner and others have already discovered and revealed the existence of alien life, I'd have to answer your question "No."



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 10:53 PM
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originally posted by: pueblosighting
The people who are lucky enough to get to see a real UFO know that we are not alone in this Universe and/or there are secret aircraft that the government isn't telling us about. Either way, these people have a story to tell now and generally, most people, including skeptics, will listen respectfully and form their own conclusions based on the observers words and evidence.

I've been lucky enough to see a UFO, and when my post count is high enough I'll make a good post about it. My story isn't as spectacular as most sightings but I've never been disrespected telling the story and most people I've told seem to believe me. The one thing I wish I could convey better was the feeling I had during the encounter because it is here where I feel most vulnerable telling the story. Even now, I feel as if I would be made fun of or joked about or called a liar if I describe everything I saw.


I'd love to hear your story.

Kev



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: wmd_2008




strange all these ufo believers that see them constantly yet they probably spend less time looking up than I do and don't understand what's up there as well.


When a flying saucer is hovering in broad daylight at O'Hare airport, maybe a telescope isn't the best way to see it?
But then again, we just don't understand what's up there as well as you do.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: 321Go




After we have established that intelligent life exists, why would they then come all this way to draw crop circles or mutilate cattle or race aircraft across the sky or even abduct a few individuals, who are hardly reference specimens of the human race? This is where the logic of this entire argument falls down in a very big way.


Exactly. Aliens would only do things that made sense to you, right?
No highly-advanced race with the ability to travel to Earth, or perhaps to our dimension, would ever behave in a manner that we can't comprehend.

Logic falls down, alright.



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: Afdcs
a reply to: wmd_2008




strange all these ufo believers that see them constantly yet they probably spend less time looking up than I do and don't understand what's up there as well.


When a flying saucer is hovering in broad daylight at O'Hare airport, maybe a telescope isn't the best way to see it?
But then again, we just don't understand what's up there as well as you do.


Who said anything about using a telescope but may be at O'Hare if someone had we would know what it was.



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