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Testosterone Blocking & Extra Estrogen Intake.

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posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I get told every day, by people who hold zero PHDs, how my treatments are wrong and will not help me and plenty of other crap notions they've read from pseudo-medical websites. How am I the one on a "high horse".

In the post of yours that I was replying to, you asked several questions that have clear answers and you even stated you were not able to find the answers to them. This, to me, means you haven't researched how the treatments work and how "fixing" the brain is a total non-solution.

I'm aware of your thread about your daughter and I followed it with hope. In your thread, you even acknowledge you are not approaching this with objectivity. That is understandable but you must realize where your daughter's issue (and your expertise) ends and where another issue (and the expertise of first-hand science-backed experience) begin.


ps edit - You may want to note I openly admitted in my last post that I don't understand the water supply/pharma issue. That is where my expertise and experience ends. I'm okay with that.
edit on 26-7-2015 by Cuervo because: added stuffs and stuffs




posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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@cosmic66

Don't let him get you down.
Keep posting this stuff, it is very interesting, shows us all how much we don't know about this subject, and how much there is to learn.
Another point it's just like taking any synthetic drug that a doctor may prescribe to help you, look at all the potential side effects, many never get them, but some do, and even severe reactions sometimes.
Synthetic drugs/hormones in our environments aren't much different even in small quantities, one person it has no effect on, next person gets autism, next person allergies, next person CFS, and the list goes on. It is not out of the realm of possibilities that it could cause gender related issues as well. When people say oh that's so impossible to that singularly, but not to any other mental or health issue that could be possibly being caused by them, I must ask.... now who is being totally biased ?

But why, because it is not anymore the fault of that person, than somebody that has autism or CFS is to be faulted.
In fact I am arguing against my own personal perspective when I justify the "I was born that way, this isn't a life choice." medically.

The possibility of knowing the "why" and "how" can lead to greater understanding more empathy and less bigotry.
For example I appreciated JadeStar relating her story it has given me a slightly different perspective.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: Boadicea

Y'know, I've been trying most of my life so far trying to deal with and accept the "reality." You know what, it has not been working. As pointed out elsewhere in the thread, early attempts were made back in the day to force the mind to match the body. That didn't work either. The head tends to reject these types of conditioning, creating a plethora of mental problems in its attempt to defend itself. So you wind up with a lot of moody, mentally damaged transgendered people who either wind up killing themselves or transitioning anyway.

And frankly I wouldn't want anyone to attempt to screw around with my head, as it's already #ed up enough as it is.


My heart goes out to you. I obviously cannot know what you feel, I can only imagine (which will always say more about me than you!). I suspect that the social/familial pressure is what makes your situation the most difficult. I know the pain of having your family disapprove of you, just not for the same reasons. In my family it's more a matter of the working unmarried women vs the married full-time moms vs. the working married women. Quite alot of judgment going around!

May I ask you, without being too personal, how much social/family pressure has aggravated your situation?

For example, if we lived in a society where men could express feminine urges and women could express masculine urges without judgment and persecution, would the difference between anatomy and brain be so difficult? Would you still feel the need for hormones or surgery?

May I also ask about your previous experience trying to match the brain to the anatomy? Did that involve hormone therapy, counseling, both, something else?

I know this is a personal matter, and I don't want to pry or ask anything you don't want to talk about. I want you -- and everyone -- to be the best they can be. (Like my hubby's cuz loves to say, "Let everyone be themselves and be fabulous!" I agree). I just want it to happen the right way for the right reasons, armed with all pertinent information. I certainly can't make that judgment for you, but I do support your right to make that judgment for yourself, and act accordingly.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: Boadicea

I get told every day, by people who hold zero PHDs, how my treatments are wrong and will not help me and plenty of other crap notions they've read from pseudo-medical websites....


And I never suggested, much less asserted, any such thing.


How am I the one on a "high horse".


Please don't play dumb. It is beneath you.


In the post of yours that I was replying to, you asked several questions that have clear answers and you even stated you were not able to find the answers to them. This, to me, means you haven't researched how the treatments work and how "fixing" the brain is a total non-solution.


And I thanked you for that. Obviously, if I'm asking and I'm looking, I want facts. I'm not trying to jump to any conclusions, much less pass judgment on anyone else, including you.


I'm aware of your thread about your daughter and I followed it with hope. In your thread, you even acknowledge you are not approaching this with objectivity. That is understandable but you must realize where your daughter's issue (and your expertise) ends and where another issue (and the expertise of first-hand science-backed experience) begin.


And yet you still called me a liar about having researched the subject? I am very well aware of where what I know ends and my questions begin; I state what I know as a fact, I inquire about what I do not know with a question. I do not make up answers and call it truth. I have been honest about my position and my interest in the matter. I never represented myself or the issues as anything else. Obviously, my concern for my daughter is personal and overwhelming. But my overall concern is for everyone's health.


ps edit - You may want to note I openly admitted in my last post that I don't understand the water supply/pharma issue. That is where my expertise and experience ends. I'm okay with that.


Fair enough.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

Fair enough.


Agreed. I think we are both subjected to injustices that others don't understand. I felt a sting when I sent my last response to you because I don't feel it's fruitful to keep up this kind of back-and-forth.

I believe you when you say you are looking for answers and I apologize for doubting your intentions. I don't agree with your conclusions but I'm sure your findings are more specific to your search.

Thanks for not replying with much venom.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
Maybe this is just semantics, but experts disagree. Hormones -- and especially hormone imbalances -- are well known to have mental and emotional as well as physical effects. Just think PMS or postpartum syndrome. People who take testosterone are known to be more aggressive and even violent. As far as transgender hormone therapy specifically, experts are unable to quantify the psychological effects, but acknowledge them. I've read accounts from transgenders who say hormone therapy did affect their sense of well-being (usually for the better). So it's impossible to say what their effect actually is.

Granted but I meant hormones weren't going to cause someone to change their gender identity. Also not to be all PC or anything but transgender is not a noun, it's an adjective so rather than "transgenders", it is preferable to use transgender people/men/women. Just sayin'.


(And, personally, I'm not especially impressed at what some people think being a "woman" is all about.)

I can't say I totally disagree with this but would you care to elaborate on what you're saying here?


I want transgenders -- and everyone -- to have the best treatment possible for their situation. Ideally, that is always the least invasive and with the least potential adverse effects.

There are varying degrees of gender diversity and severity of gender dysphoria and I agree the least invasive treatment with the least potential of adverse effects would be preferable but in some cases, this is simply not possible and any risks or danger are far outweighed by the potential of suicide and a life of abject misery. Being transgender is relatively common. Being transsexual and completing all medical procedures, which for all practical purposes except for menstruation and gestation does change the sex of your body, not so much.


I'm sure all the women who have suffered -- even died -- from excess estrogen caused breast cancer would disagree. I'm sure the many women who can't have babies because their reproductive organs have been damaged by excess hormones or endocrine-disrupters would disagree. Surgeons and anesthesiologists are the first to warn us that EVERY surgery has inherent dangers. Both common sense and my research tells me transgender hormone therapy and SRS is no exception.

No doubt but for me none of the perceived risks and potential dangers came close to the alternative which was to be dead. My life has been healthy and happy the last 41 of my 60 years and for me HRT and SRS were life saving measures. If I die tomorrow as a consequence of this, so be it but it's been worth it every second.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 07:22 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Boadicea

Fair enough.


Agreed. I think we are both subjected to injustices that others don't understand. I felt a sting when I sent my last response to you because I don't feel it's fruitful to keep up this kind of back-and-forth.


I agree -- So let's don't! Our experiences may be different, but both have value in the discussion. Neither of us can fully understand the issue unless we at least try to understand its different effects. We both need to be able to talk and listen to do that.


I believe you when you say you are looking for answers and I apologize for doubting your intentions.


Thank you. I appreciate and respect that. Let's never speak of it again, and we can both try harder to discuss with an open mind and not let ourselves feel defensive or attacked or other downers.


I don't agree with your conclusions but I'm sure your findings are more specific to your search.


Haha! I really don't have any conclusions... well, except that these synthetic hormones and endocrine-disrupters are a big problem... and that I don't trust Big Pharma or the FDA in any way, shape or form. It's not a one-size-fits-all problem, and it won't have a one-size-fits-all solution. Sometimes I think I need to be more specific -- rather than following any and all tangents! But there are just so many to follow...


Thanks for not replying with much venom.


You're welcome. I really don't want to fight. Well, maybe with Big Pharma and our congress critters



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 08:02 PM
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originally posted by: EKron

Also not to be all PC or anything but transgender is not a noun, it's an adjective so rather than "transgenders", it is preferable to use transgender people/men/women. Just sayin'.


Thank you -- and duly noted! I appreciate the distinction.


(And, personally, I'm not especially impressed at what some people think being a "woman" is all about.)



I can't say I totally disagree with this but would you care to elaborate on what you're saying here?


Too much focus on the outside and not enough focus on the inside. I've spent my kids' lifetime telling them they are who they are and they just have to be the best at being them -- cuz no one else can! I've taught them not to judge a book by their cover... that clothes and makeup and the outer accoutrements so to speak mean next to nothing. I've taught them that no one can be everything -- but anyone can be anything.

So I love when the press highlights the good Bruce/Caitlyn is doing for transgender youth who are hurting and need a hero... I'd love to see him speak to the rest of us as well, and help everyone understand the issues involved, to be more respectful and kinder to our fellow men and women. But I'm disgusted when the press focuses on clothes or makeup. Then it just becomes so superficial and silly. I really don't think it does any of us any good.


There are varying degrees of gender diversity and severity of gender dysphoria and I agree the least invasive treatment with the least potential of adverse effects would be preferable but in some cases, this is simply not possible and any risks or danger are far outweighed by the potential of suicide and a life of abject misery.


I get that there is no one appropriate treatment for everyone. As you said, there are degrees to be considered, and there may be more than that which we don't yet understand. We need far more research, not just for the transgender community, but for everyone, as it effects us all on different levels. As I said to another poster, this isn't a one-size-fits-all problem, and there is no one-size-fits-all solution.


No doubt but for me none of the perceived risks and potential dangers came close to the alternative which was to be dead. My life has been healthy and happy the last 41 of my 60 years and for me HRT and SRS were life saving measures. If I die tomorrow as a consequence of this, so be it but it's been worth it every second.


I'm happy you got what you needed, as the test of time has shown. Sometimes we all have to take risks for a greater good. That's just life.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea



these synthetic hormones and endocrine-disrupters are a big problem


Taking them involuntarily in small doses even, like it's been said. And then there is the cumulative effect as mentioned, the grandkids of the hippies. Mix a concoction of 60's drugs in the genetic mix with these other drugs. For example the children of those exposed to agent orange during Vietnam have big health issues, I personally know some. It's really sad.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
There are two points I want to make about this.
First off I was reading about transgender people who do this to help their change along.

Is it that healthy ?
Is that natural ?

For either sex I guess, the other way would be to take testosterone and block estrogen.

The other point I was reading is that with all these being taken by people it is starting to put some of these chemicals into our water supply, which we all drink. The best filters can't remove them.

I know this a hot topic, but when I read that people are saying it's natural for the human body to block and take in extra of these chemicals, I do have an issue with that. There is nothing "natural" about that, for either sex. And the long term health effects are unknown.


The hormones are coming from, The contraceptive pill, and Dairy farming, the milk and cheese from pregnant cows have a hormone content that is 500 times of what it was before they started milking pregnant cows . This is excreted and comes back in the water supply. You only need micro amounts to upset the natural balance, a human female makes two teaspoons of oestrogen in her lifetime. It just tells the cells what to do, even fish are showing signs of androgeny.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

Interesting, so whats worse for people trying to stay away from estrogen soy or cow milk ?
So sad, how can I enjoy ice cream after hearing this.




posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

Too much focus on the outside and not enough focus on the inside. I've spent my kids' lifetime telling them they are who they are and they just have to be the best at being them -- cuz no one else can! I've taught them not to judge a book by their cover... that clothes and makeup and the outer accoutrements so to speak mean next to nothing. I've taught them that no one can be everything -- but anyone can be anything.


I think you may be a victim of media portrayal of this issue. It's far easier to show the outer stuff. It's a lot harder for the camera to catch the inner stuff. idk if that makes any sense?



So I love when the press highlights the good Bruce/Caitlyn is doing for transgender youth who are hurting and need a hero... I'd love to see him speak to the rest of us as well, and help everyone understand the issues involved, to be more respectful and kinder to our fellow men and women.


You could be more respectful and kinder to her by using the proper pronouns. Just sayin'


But I'm disgusted when the press focuses on clothes or makeup. Then it just becomes so superficial and silly. I really don't think it does any of us any good.


In order for a transgender person to be accepted fully, especially one who is a celebrity who was known for decades as one gender, it is often necessary for them to destroy the image of who people thought they were. Caitlyn wants to be Caitlyn. It's kind of hard for the world to see Caitlyn inside of decades of Bruce without destroying that old image.

So then in that case it may not only do us good but most importantly Caitlyn herself.

Also pronouns matter. I see you used male ones in reference to her. And you wonder why the media focus is on the superficial?

And let's be honest when ISN'T the media focus on the superficial when it comes to its portrayal of women celebrities? How many times do we hear about what female politicians, scientists, etc are wearing? It's almost certain you see that in the mainstream media. idk what can be done about that, tbh. it's been an issue which women have discussed for decades even before i was born. if anyone complains they're called a feminist as if that's a bad thing.



I get that there is no one appropriate treatment for everyone. As you said, there are degrees to be considered, and there may be more than that which we don't yet understand. We need far more research, not just for the transgender community, but for everyone, as it effects us all on different levels. As I said to another poster, this isn't a one-size-fits-all problem, and there is no one-size-fits-all solution.


No one ever said it was, however there are standards of treatment which are the result of decades of study already. There is no need to reinvent the wheel here. Treatment is on a case-by-case basis but there are things which are known to alleviate some of the pain almost universally.
edit on 26-7-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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It's kind of funny.

Bodybuilders know more about hormones and their side effects than most GP doctors. Unless you specialize in endocrinology, your average doctor really doesn't know the ins and outs of hormones. It's the same with any medical specialty though.

Hormones play such a HUGE role in our bodies. They don't just regulate growth and male/female characteristics, they also GREATLY influence our moods. Our moods can twist our thoughts and effect our behavior. Our entire reality can be changed because of how we feel/think about the world.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
It's kind of funny.

Bodybuilders know more about hormones and their side effects than most GP doctors. Unless you specialize in endocrinology, your average doctor really doesn't know the ins and outs of hormones. It's the same with any medical specialty though.

Hormones play such a HUGE role in our bodies. They don't just regulate growth and male/female characteristics, they also GREATLY influence our moods. Our moods can twist our thoughts and effect our behavior. Our entire reality can be changed because of how we feel/think about the world.


But no amount of testosterone would ever have made me think i was a boy.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: anonentity

Interesting, so whats worse for people trying to stay away from estrogen soy or cow milk ?
So sad, how can I enjoy ice cream after hearing this.



Definitely Cows milk. The problem should be a national scandal, but you are up against a mega corporation pushing Dairy profits. Soya is dicey as it contains plant type oestrogens. Oat milk or Almond milk seems the best Dairy alternative. But it takes ten litres of milk to make one kilo of cheese. So cheeses have a concentration ten times that of ordinary milk. Eighty percent of the milk is from pregnant cows, and most of that contains the IGF growth hormone, compliments of Monsanto to boost the production.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
It's kind of funny.

Bodybuilders know more about hormones and their side effects than most GP doctors. Unless you specialize in endocrinology, your average doctor really doesn't know the ins and outs of hormones. It's the same with any medical specialty though.

Hormones play such a HUGE role in our bodies. They don't just regulate growth and male/female characteristics, they also GREATLY influence our moods. Our moods can twist our thoughts and effect our behavior. Our entire reality can be changed because of how we feel/think about the world.


But no amount of testosterone would ever have made me think i was a boy.


Quite, but you would have been thinking about sex most of the day, and unable to think of much else.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 09:34 PM
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a reply to: JadeStar

It's really not as simple as Testosterone = Man/Manly Feelings & Estrogen = Women/Womanly Feelings, there are many things going on in our endocrine system that make us who we are, and we are all unique. As far as gender roles go, in the Scholarly world at least, such things were done away with a long time ago, we are all unique and individual and must follow our own paths to be who we want to be. Whether their is hormones in the water/milk and/or pharmaceuticals over-prescribed is a totally different conversation, and Actually is the one we're trying to focus on here. This thread is not about you.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 09:37 PM
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a reply to: anonentity
Actually you'd probably just develop hypogonadism, and as a result , lose erectile function....so all the thinking in the world just wouldn't help. DHT plays a more prominent role in sexual function, too low no wood, too high too much wood and loss of hair hahaha



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

Damn I did not think of the 10:1 Milk:Cheese ratio, how stupid of me!

I eat way too much cheese.... and this is were I find myself with every conundrum, I either have to find a source that I can trust not too poison me or do it all my goddarn self.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 09:44 PM
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originally posted by: cosmic66
a reply to: anonentity
Actually you'd probably just develop hypogonadism, and as a result , lose erectile function....so all the thinking in the world just wouldn't help. DHT plays a more prominent role in sexual function, too low no wood, too high too much wood and loss of hair hahaha


If it were that simple??. .
The problem deepens, if men drink alcohol their testosterone gets turned into Oestrogen, if women drink the Oestrogen gets turned into testosterone. So long time male drinkers have a loverly head of hair and man boobs, plus erectile dysfunction. Long time female drinkers get randy, disrupt their endocrine system, and suffer the consequences.




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