Testosterone Blocking & Extra Estrogen Intake.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Boadicea

I don't know what to think about hormone therapy for transgenders, and much disturbs me. For starters, it's quite likely that these synthetic hormones and endocrine-disrupters caused these gender identity issues to begin with, and the problem is being declared the solution. Maybe it is, but I'm not so sure about that. Is it just further victimizing these people for profit? Is it human engineering -- human GMOs so to speak? Is it part of a depopulation agenda? (The transgender hormonal therapy causes sterility). It just strikes me as very suspect that instead of using temporary hormone therapy to correct the condition, they are using permanent hormone therapy to perpetuate/escalate the condition. And this public media blitz to promote and even embrace what is very well a crime against humanity is just too over the top for me.

I think this is the best post in this thread so far, "the problem is being declared the solution".

AMEN to that.

So you'd have rather I grew a beard and killed myself?

That sounds a pretty crap option compared to living a happy fulfilling life, for sure.
...another generation and it won't be an issue to most folk, we're close where I am now, but once a few more dinosaurs die off then we'll be getting places.

There are a lot of dinosaurs in my country. They think some idea they just came up with like giving a mega dose of testosterone to transgender women would "fix" them. Completely unaware that such barbaric nonsense was tried like 40-50 years ago mostly to very tragic results.

But hey they just thought of it yesterday so obviously they know more than those "elitist" medical professionals.

What makes them uncomfortable is that we're just blending into society now thanks to early intervention and greater awareness.

They want us to be circus freaks. Much easier to point out and discriminate against.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Boadicea

I don't know what to think about hormone therapy for transgenders, and much disturbs me. For starters, it's quite likely that these synthetic hormones and endocrine-disrupters caused these gender identity issues to begin with, and the problem is being declared the solution. Maybe it is, but I'm not so sure about that. Is it just further victimizing these people for profit? Is it human engineering -- human GMOs so to speak? Is it part of a depopulation agenda? (The transgender hormonal therapy causes sterility). It just strikes me as very suspect that instead of using temporary hormone therapy to correct the condition, they are using permanent hormone therapy to perpetuate/escalate the condition. And this public media blitz to promote and even embrace what is very well a crime against humanity is just too over the top for me.

I think this is the best post in this thread so far, "the problem is being declared the solution".

AMEN to that.

So you'd have rather I grew a beard and killed myself?

That sounds a pretty crap option compared to living a happy fulfilling life, for sure.
...another generation and it won't be an issue to most folk, we're close where I am now, but once a few more dinosaurs die off then we'll be getting places.

generational change is not always obvious but yes it can make a huge difference

a reply to: JadeStar

I certainly wouldn't say that myself as I believe you have sought to make yourself healthier and it puts a big smile on m face to read how far you've come and that your are happier and thus healthier for it ; but I do think there is some merit to the discussion of how chemicals in our water supply may be causing these anomalies in the first place.

I think a mixture of Pharmaceuticals/Pesticides and radiation from mobiles/wifi/smart meters are causing most of the imbalances & anomalies we are facing; average male T levels have dropped a helluva lot in the last 60 years and the problem of being born in the wrong body/gender is becoming way more prevalent too.

The drop in male T levels coincides with the prevalence of Pesticide use and Pharmaceutical Companies not only feeding us whatever they want, but having their factories in the middle of our cities pumping out all their waste into our air and water supplies, dont think this makes a difference? Where I live the Sniffer Dogs cannot smell a certain pharma opiate because the company that makes it is in the middle of town, so they are already too used to it...So if they can smell it in the air, surely it's not good for us to be breathing that in 24/7 right? Our city also has a stupidly high hermaphroditic rate in children, not talked about publicly of course but it's a big enough problem that the counselors and endo's know about it...one mentioned 10x the rate of some other major cities! WTF is in our water?

a reply to: cosmic66



In case my point doesn't come across properly,

I accept that Transgender people are not a "new" thing and has been around since before chemicals in water etc

But I also think that in our current environmental state we can't rule out the influence of chemicals encouraging the rate at which such anomalies show up.

originally posted by: cosmic66
a reply to: JadeStar

I certainly wouldn't say that myself as I believe you have sought to make yourself healthier and it puts a big smile on m face to read how far you've come and that your are happier and thus healthier for it

; but I do think there is some merit to the discussion of how chemicals in our water supply may be causing these anomalies in the first place.

I think a mixture of Pharmaceuticals/Pesticides and radiation from mobiles/wifi/smart meters are causing most of the imbalances & anomalies we are facing; average male T levels have dropped a helluva lot in the last 60 years and the problem of being born in the wrong body/gender is becoming way more prevalent too.

The drop in male T levels coincides with the prevalence of Pesticide use and Pharmaceutical Companies not only feeding us whatever they want, but having their factories in the middle of our cities pumping out all their waste into our air and water supplies, dont think this makes a difference? Where I live the Sniffer Dogs cannot smell a certain pharma opiate because the company that makes it is in the middle of town, so they are already too used to it...So if they can smell it in the air, surely it's not good for us to be breathing that in 24/7 right? Our city also has a stupidly high hermaphroditic rate in children, not talked about publicly of course but it's a big enough problem that the counselors and endo's know about it...one mentioned 10x the rate of some other major cities! WTF is in our water?

There would only be merit if polluted water was scientifically proven to be linked to a rise in transgender human births. That's not the case. Also transgender people are not a new thing. There have been transgender people for centuries way before polluted water existed.


The two issues are not linked so they should be decoupled.

originally posted by: cosmic66
but I do think there is some merit to the discussion of how chemicals in our water supply may be causing these anomalies in the first place.

Yeah but the OP it turned out was really just slanting the topic to make out either trans folk are to blame, or the water causes transgender issues.

Ridiculous argument when you consider the percentage of trans folk who would contribute to the contamination of the water supply, and then if the water is to blame then what about all those non-trans folk who grew up drinking the same water?

The OP appears to have shown the real agenda in this thread and I remain here as a someone who identifies as a male assigned at birth to deny ignorance and question bigotry.

a reply to: JadeStar

"scientifically proven"

I'm not a scientist, but I know enough due to my own endocrine issues to not be able to trust the conclusions most come too in their "studies".

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
But ultimately couldn't that be a variable on the way people are feeling closer to a different sex than they were born as ?
Are the two topics more related than we know ?
Because it is happening way more in the last decade or so.

You are seeing it way more in the last decade or so but has always existed throughout history. I was born a boy at the beginning of 1955 but by the time I was five was absolutely certain nature had made a grievous mistake. Due to the lack of medical understanding and standards of care, it wasn't until I was 17 (1972) that I began slowly making the outward transition to the gender opposite of my designated birth sex. By 19, I had completed transitioning socially and was under medical care working toward surgical reassignment.

This is biological, not environmental and usually happens during fetal development toward the end of the first trimester of pregnancy when sexual differentiation occurs. Personally, I have physical markers that are generally used to indicate low exposure to pre-natal testosterone or androgen insensitivity. It is entirely possible to born with a girl's brain in a boy's body. In my case, this was long before oral contraceptives or hormone use in animals contaminating the food and water supply.

originally posted by: Cuervo

Is it healthy and natural? It's correcting an already-existing health and physiological anomaly so it's a step towards being more healthy and natural, yes. It's no different than treating any number of endocrine issues.

May I ask why you believe that? I'm not so sure about that. In fact, for many reasons, it would seem more practical and effective to use hormone therapy to match the brain to the body -- not to change the body to match the brain. For one thing, one cannot truly change physical gender. But apparently hormones can be used to shift mental/emotional perceptions, so it would seem more effective to target hormone therapy to the physiological reality. Especially because opposite sex hormone therapy and surgery create so many adverse side affects, many life-threatening. So is it "correcting" or encouraging/promoting/worsening? This is a sincere question. I have tried to research it, but I cannot find any clinical studies or anything about it.

Water supply. Huh, well that's a new angle. Given the incredibly small population of transfolks and also given the huge prevalence of everything else we put in our supply that might have an effect on hormones, I'd say it doesn't even make a difference.

Actually, it's a well-known, well-documented longstanding problem, and transgender hormonal therapy thus compounds the problem but is not be the cause of it... although it may very well be a major cause of transgenderism.

a reply to: JadeStar

The two issues are not linked so they should be decoupled.

But here is the thing, we don't know for sure, I don't know, and you don't know, we just have our personal opinions that are both biased in different directions which is really obvious.

And I welcome more input on the subject from other ATS members.

a reply to: grainofsand

So we should show him the way and discuss it properly right?

Just because I have an opinion it doesn't (and should never) mean that It can't change and I can't think I've been wrong, and the best way for most to find themselves questioning that is through reasoned discussion .

a reply to: EKron

You are seeing it way more in the last decade or so

I appreciate that coming from you, now we ask is the cause environmental or societal ? Or a bit of both ?

If it is discovered in 50 years that it's mostly an environmental issue caused by all these chemicals being dumped into the earth, and they solve it and it starts reversing the trend, wouldn't people especially parents be just little upset with the people responsible for doing this ?

a reply to: cosmic66

I'm with you, but I've provided links to different research on water contamination sources, and also hormone levels in trans kids. I always strive for reasoned debate, but the trouble with the OP and some others here is they are making solely opinion based suggestions, without providing any links to back them up.

It almost feels like a religious thread lol.

There has been nothing presented here by the 'trans uncomfortable' crowd that is based on anything other than opinion.
That is lame if you ask me.
I like mature reasoned and informed debate, otherwise the place just becomes like facebook.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: EKron

You are seeing it way more in the last decade or so

I appreciate that coming from you, now we ask is the cause environmental or societal ? Or a bit of both ?

More awareness, less bigotry, greater tolerance, less need to hide in a cupboard like dirty secret perhaps?

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: JadeStar

The two issues are not linked so they should be decoupled.

But here is the thing, we don't know for sure, I don't know, and you don't know, we just have our personal opinions that are both biased in different directions which is really obvious.

And I welcome more input on the subject from other ATS members.

Science knows that they aren't. Whether you are aware of that is the only subject for debate.

a reply to: JadeStar

Yeah, and the bias line is a BS distraction as well, trans issues don't affect my life in any way so I have no bias, well aside from questioning folk who make purely opinion based suggestions with nothing else to back it up, therefore appearing rather bigoted as a result.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Cuervo

Is it healthy and natural? It's correcting an already-existing health and physiological anomaly so it's a step towards being more healthy and natural, yes. It's no different than treating any number of endocrine issues.

May I ask why you believe that? I'm not so sure about that. In fact, for many reasons, it would seem more practical and effective to use hormone therapy to match the brain to the body -- not to change the body to match the brain. For one thing, one cannot truly change physical gender. But apparently hormones can be used to shift mental/emotional perceptions, so it would seem more effective to target hormone therapy to the physiological reality. Especially because opposite sex hormone therapy and surgery create so many adverse side affects, many life-threatening. So is it "correcting" or encouraging/promoting/worsening? This is a sincere question. I have tried to research it, but I cannot find any clinical studies or anything about it.

Once the brain differentiation happens during the pregnancy no amount of hormone treatment, aversion therapy or anything else can change it to match the body after the baby is born.

That is why they stopped doing that ages ago. (i think in the 1960s) It's not a new thought. It was tried. A lot of really messed up people were the result of trying to get the brain to match the body. All adding testosterone to a female brain in a male body does is make the person with that female brain even more horrified with their male body and more violent towards it. You can see where that wouldn't end well right?

This is why the accepted treatment is to get the body to match the brain and if done early enough it works out very well.

SEE ALSO this TED talk: Dr. Norman Spack - How I help Transgender Teens Become Who They Want to Be

originally posted by: Boadicea
In fact, for many reasons, it would seem more practical and effective to use hormone therapy to match the brain to the body -- not to change the body to match the brain. For one thing, one cannot truly change physical gender. But apparently hormones can be used to shift mental/emotional perceptions, so it would seem more effective to target hormone therapy to the physiological reality. Especially because opposite sex hormone therapy and surgery create so many adverse side affects, many life-threatening. So is it "correcting" or encouraging/promoting/worsening?

This is completely inaccurate. Hormone therapy does absolutely nothing to change the brain psychologically. Take your average man off the street and give him estrogen. The side effects are going to produce one very unhappy guy. Gender is between the ears, not between the legs and whatever adverse side effects you think there might be from hormones and surgery, of which I've had none in 40+ years, they could never be as life threatening as emotional agony and potential suicide without medical intervention.

a reply to: grainofsand

It almost feels like a religious thread lol.

But morally it is wrong for companies to make products that they know the by-products are going into the environment and they are effecting people in this way. Early in the thread links were made about this. I mean this just isn't about people feeling like they are the opposite sex. That could be just one side effect, allergies and autism are spiking.
A school aged co-worker of mine said her and "ALL" her classmates are on meds to cope with something.
That's really sad, and not good for future generations, things are messed up right across the board. The transgender issue, is just a small part of a much bigger issue effecting peoples general health.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: grainofsand

It almost feels like a religious thread lol.

But morally it is wrong for companies to make products that they know the by-products are going into the environment and they are effecting people in this way.

But they aren't. There is nothing which has scientifically established that they are. You're starting with a premise with no scientific validity.