Testosterone Blocking & Extra Estrogen Intake.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: JadeStar

I have to be very careful in responding to you

Having read your story, it seemed to work for you and your parents.

But I still disagree with corrective surgery done in the teens, it too drastic for people who are still developing in every way.

And you are a medical professional with experience with transgender kids?

If not then your opinion is not well informed as to the reality of our situations.

Let me ask you at what age did you start to take inhibitors or supplementation of hormones ?

I started to take testosterone blockers at 12 and hormones at 14. I completed surgery at 17. It's all there in this thread I linked along with a lot of details on what it was like to grow up in my family, schools, etc.

It's easier today for girls like Jazz since a lot more is known and most schools now have at least some understanding of transgender students.

unfortunately there are hormones and unidentified chemicals in the foods we consume because of the agricultural 'industry' being what it is today
these chemicals do cause illnesses and bad reactions not just children but built-up chronic problems for adults today
we're just now finding out the effects on us and our physical/mental health

a reply to: grainofsand

No, that is just a side point, parents have a huge responsibility in raising children it is not easy these days.
And some parents that I know for fact that had there children's very best interest at heart and love them dearly have been accused of child abuse, when they just were trying to give them the very best health care they could.

Again I think parents that have a 5 year old that is confused about their gender have a huge challenge on their hands, if they give a boy who says he is a girl extra testosterone and estrogen blockers and take him to therapy to help reject feminine feelings, somebody like JadeStar might think they are abusing the child.

Now reverse it and they give the boy testosterone blockers and extra estrogen and take him for therapy to embrace the feminine, of coarse some people will feel "THAT" is abuse as well.

a reply to: blacktie

Loving your on-topic reply but it appears that the OP really just wants to discuss thoughts that transgendered kids getting hormone treatment should be banned, and is a form of child abuse.
Disappointed to be honest, but we could carry on ignoring that and focus on the OP about external hormone intake in our water supply?

That is an interesting debate.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

At Some Point in the Future.
We will all be the Gray Aliens People See.

Time Travelers in my Opinion.

LOL

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

So, are we sticking to external input of hormones from our water supply now, or parents of transgendered children being abusers when they assist their child in their very fragile and emotional development?
I'm easy with whatever we discuss, but you seem slippery, and I don't actually believe the OP words were your true intentions of debate.

a reply to: grainofsand

See my post above yours.

Do I think JadeStar parents abused her, no, because she is happy.

Again it is a very difficult call, for all involved given the young ages.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
As I'm not a parent of a transgender, nor am I a qualified medical professional assisting a transgender to make any choices I can't give you the answers you're looking for.

I however don't think these momentous decisions should be broadcast everywhere. They should be private.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: grainofsand

No, that is just a side point, parents have a huge responsibility in raising children it is not easy these days.
And some parents that I know for fact that had there children's very best interest at heart and love them dearly have been accused of child abuse, when they just were trying to give them the very best health care they could.

Again I think parents that have 5 year old that is confused about their gender

I was not confused about my gender. I knew what I was. Jazz was not confused about her gender, she knew what she was. The confusion has been on the part of adults.

have a huge challenge on their hands, if they give a boy who says he is a girl extra testosterone and estrogen blockers and take him to therapy to help reject feminine feelings, somebody like JadeStar might think they are abusing the child.

Because it doesn't work that way. You're trying to change a brain which is female into conforming to a body which is male. That's pretty impossible and it has been tried your way (pumping testosterone in after birth does not change the gender of the brain it just makes ones depression more violent) as well as more barbaric things like "aversion therapy", electroshock "therapy". Etc.

You are just learning about this stuff but the medical community has over 30 years dealing with transgender kids. and close to 60 with transgender adults.

So yes, trying to force a round peg in a square hole at a crucial developmental time for a child -is- abuse.

You see the hormonal,body transition as that when in reality, trying to force the brain to conform to the body is the real abuse.

The path of least resistance is the correct one. No matter what anyone could have done to me my brain was not going to change its gender. All they would have done was made me more miserable than I already had been.

Now reverse it and they give the boy testosterone blockers and extra estrogen and take him for therapy to embrace the feminine, of coarse some people will feel "THAT" is abuse as well.

People who think that is abuse are misinformed. All they would have to do is talk with me and my parents to understand why. If you look at my avatar, that's me. I turned out pretty ok right?

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: grainofsand

See my post above yours.

Do I think JadeStar parents abused her, no, because she is happy.

Again it is a very difficult call, for all involved given the young ages.

There have been studies of kids like me and most have gone on to be happy.

a reply to: Iamthatbish

If you are talking about parents whoring out their kids to the media for their own benefit in any situation then I agree.
If you are saying that parents should hide their transgendered kids away as some dirty little secret then I do not agree.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Iamthatbish

If you are talking about parents whoring out their kids to the media for their own benefit in any situation then I agree.
If you are saying that parents should hide their transgendered kids away as some dirty little secret then I do not agree.

I agree.

I do see some value in a show, book, etc about kids like I was because so many parents still don't know what to do when faced with that situation.

When my parents had me there was very little information online about the medical treatment of trans kids and there was NOTHING on television about us.

a reply to: JadeStar

Well you do look like a good looking woman, verses some of the others I have seen.

It worked out for you, I can only wish you the best for you and your family, I can't judge anybody that is living a happy life with their choices.

I leave that to a higher being.

a reply to: JadeStar

It is good that time have changed.
As I've said in other threads, I live in a very accepting and tolerant area of the UK so my experience will be different to say some industrial rough towns I've experienced elsewhere, but I can't think of anyone I know in my community or wider social circle who would be anything other than supportive to parents of a trans child.

Education is a good thing, and my late teen son's generation have much greater awareness of such issues than when I was his age.
Progress, I like that.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Well you do look like a good looking woman, verses some of the others I have seen.

Some others what do you mean? Other women?

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Do you really think the tiny percentage of people taking hormones for gender transition is making an impact on water supplies, really?
Perhaps think contraceptive pill instead of a thinly veiled slight on the transgender community?

It's a cumulative problem. There was a thread on ATS about this problem and one of the findings was that 80% of the fish in the UK were hatching female. With more people gender bending, the problem will increase to a tipping point and we can say, "Way to go PTB, thanks for breeding us out of existence! "

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Nah, you may have missed my later reply here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
It turns out other reasons are at play, so say sorry to trans folk now, they are not the ones to be whipped, and any attempt to do so is baseless.

I made this thread because this exact topic came up in YouTube comments, I did not join the discussion because it was so brutal and crude. They insulted the transgender persons mercilessly, it was so bad, and the discussion was not civil. YouTube comments are so infantile these days.
But the point about hormone therapy was valid, I thought on ATS we could discuss this like adults, like we have been doing. And I knew if things got out of control MODS would be here to fix it.

a reply to: grainofsand

What you haven't seen "others" trying so hard and failing so miserably that everybody (men & women) around them feels very uncomfortable ? I have seen the reactions of even the non-religious people who are super progressive in this, they are super accepting of everything, but interestingly not that.

I am just saying.

I guess people are vain, maybe they think if your going to do it, you better look good when your done, or don't bother at all.

a reply to: grainofsand
I think we're in agreement about the kids in media. While I wouldn't use such a strong word I do have children of my own. I wonder who gets the money. I wonder if the child understands the long term consiquences of being so open in a documented way.

I'm not always certain the best interest of the child is considered. Sometimes the message they are trying to get ," out there" seems more prominent.

I am also honest enough that I'll tell you I'm tired of this topic. Because at the end of the day these people don't pay my bills so I wish them the best. By making themselves public figures I feel that they aren't even wishing themselves the best. There's so many ignorant people full of hate. Why would anyone put a child on that radar?