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knights of columbus/columba

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posted on Dec, 31 2004 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
axeman if you can read, if you go onto the jesuits page and scroll down the knights of columus oath is there as well


Orangeman Dave,

I don't expect you to believe this but...here goes...

From "The Knights of Columbus in Peace and War" Chapter VIII is entitled "The Fourth Degree and the Bogus Oath" It describes the aweful oath you mentioned, etc. and says:

In Los Angeles in 1914 the (Knights of Columbus) State Deputy of California submitted the entire work, ceremonies and pledges of the Order to a committee of Freemasons made up of Messr. Motley Hewes Flint, 33rd Degree Past Grand Master of Masons of California; Dana Reid Weller, 32nd Degree Past Grand Master of Masons of California; William Rhodes Hervey, 33rd Degree Past Master and Master of Scottish Rite Lodge and Samuel E. Burke, 32nd Degree Past Master and Insspector of Masonic District. These gentlemen issued a statement that included the following

"We find that neither the alleged oath nor any oath or pledge bearing the remotest resemblance thereto in matter, manner, spirit or purpose is used or forms a part of the ceremonies of any degree of the Knights of Columbus. The alleged oath is scurrilous, wicked and libelous and must be the invention of an impious and venomous mind. We find that the Order of Knights of Columbus, as shown by its rituals, is dedicated to the Catholic religion, charityand patriotism. There is no propaganda proposed or taught against Protestants or Masons or persons not of Catholic faith. Indeed, Protestants and Masons are not referred to directly or indirectly in the ceremonials and pledges. The ceremonial of the Order teaches a high and noble patriotism, instills a love of country, unselfish performance of civic duty and holds up the Constitution of our Country as the richest and most precious possession of a Knight of the Order. We can find nothing in the entire ceremonials of the Order that to our minds could be objected to by any person.


Regards,




posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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hi senrak,
ok where are these rituals that were handed to the masons? they only tell you what u want to know, my god every catholic organization in the world has a part of there oath referiing to protestants and mason.
Whether they be the hibernians, opus dei, the catenians the jesuits. Do you honestly think the knights are any different? Also there about five different websites showing the same degree as posted and after seeing the oath first hand in a knights briefcase ill believe what ive seen for my own eyes, regards



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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the knights of columbus are a group that works at my church. They volenter there time cleaning the church or decorating for holidays. THey also volenter there time at local homeless shelters. The members are decons, priests and mostly senoir citizens. There secret handshake is a hug and they wear an ocult symbol called a cross.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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the knights of columbus are a group that works at my church. They volenter there time cleaning the church or decorating for holidays. THey also volenter there time at local homeless shelters. The members are decons, priests and mostly senoir citizens. There secret handshake is a hug and they wear an ocult symbol called a cross.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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the knights of columbus are a group that works at my church. They volenter there time cleaning the church or decorating for holidays. THey also volenter there time at local homeless shelters. The members are decons, priests and mostly senoir citizens. There secret handshake is a hug and they wear an ocult symbol called a cross.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 10:55 AM
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I am posting this late in the game but Orangeman Dave is very confused. First a couple of post back you showed a link to biblebelievers.com regarding the bogus oath. This oath is not in any part of the knights of Columbus and is completely false. The history was that someone or a group put the bogus oath into the Library of congress. At the time it was fairly easy to put false documents into the library of congress. Next you show a link explaining that the members of the forth degree are of the rich and powerful. Well good I guess I am going to be rich and powerful next month. Seriously my father is in the 4th degree and he is far from being rich. So Orangeman you should read actual historical references to learn about the knights and also lay off the Christian conspiracy websites. If there is one thing more dangerous in the world it is a Christian with conspiracy theories, they can dilute a persons mind in no time.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
hi senrak,
ok where are these rituals that were handed to the masons? they only tell you what u want to know, my god every catholic organization in the world has a part of there oath referiing to protestants and mason.
Whether they be the hibernians, opus dei, the catenians the jesuits. Do you honestly think the knights are any different? Also there about five different websites showing the same degree as posted and after seeing the oath first hand in a knights briefcase ill believe what ive seen for my own eyes, regards


I have a copy of the 1st - 3rd Degrees of the Knights of Columbus (the real things...not the so called expose' that's offered called "Knights of Columbus, Illustrated" and a copy of the Ancient Order of Hibernians ritual. There's no mention of Masons or Protestants in either of those. But tell you what Orangeman Dave, believe what you want to believe.

I do wish you'd take the Masonic avatar down, because I DON'T believe you're a Mason. A Mason is taught to be tolerant of the beliefs of others...and you obviously hate Catholics based on misinformation that's been documented as false...but you won't be convinced otherwise. Pity for you.



[edit on 1-1-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 1-1-2005 by senrak]



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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listen senrak, the symbol stays where it is, i paid an old shoe for it so im entitled to it ok! I couldnt care less if u think im a mason or not because i know i am, obviously you have false rituals when these groups are not included in them i dont need to prove what i am to anyone so ill pack up the tools and jewels! ps im not anti catholic or anti anything, just anti paedophilia,abuse,cover-up and beatings



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
listen senrak, the symbol stays where it is, i paid an old shoe for it so im entitled to it ok! I couldnt care less if u think im a mason or not because i know i am, obviously you have false rituals when these groups are not included in them i dont need to prove what i am to anyone so ill pack up the tools and jewels! ps im not anti catholic or anti anything, just anti paedophilia,abuse,cover-up and beatings


Yep. My rituals are obviously false. Someone went to the trouble to have them printed and bound in several editions to fool the general public.

Tell you what....think what you want to think, but there's no such oath in the Knights of Columbus. Period.

See ya!



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
listen senrak, the symbol stays where it is, i paid an old shoe for it so im entitled to it ok! I couldnt care less if u think im a mason or not because i know i am, obviously you have false rituals when these groups are not included in them i dont need to prove what i am to anyone so ill pack up the tools and jewels! ps im not anti catholic or anti anything, just anti paedophilia,abuse,cover-up and beatings




An ignorant person who is propagating the kind of filthy lies and openly condemning others simply based on religion, as you have done from the minute you signed on here is NOT "entitled" to display that emblem. You are a cowan, I can see it plain as day and I'm not even a Mason yet.

Even if by some freakish chance you are a member of a lodge somewhere, then that's all you are. A club member. A man is not a Mason because of a symbol or a ring or a title. A man is a Mason in his heart first, and it seems to me that your heart is filled with macontentment, intolerance and downright hatred. Not characteristic of any Mason I have come into contact with, nor one anyone is likely to come into contact with.



P.S. Happy New Year everyone!



[edit on 1/1/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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listen axeman, im entitled to post anything i believe to be true, im not a mason no well 2 years will see me on the chair, unlike other masons im not blinded ill speak the truth and u cant condemm me for that unless you are a knight and ive hit a sore point, who have i condemmed by religion answer no-one i speak the truth about beatings, paedophilia, cover-ups are u condemming me for speaking the truth it is u who are the cowan, david sword bearer lodge 177 st james scotland ye ha



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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www.residentgroups.fsnet.co.uk... right senrak heres my copy of the oath of the hibernians swearing to kill protestant heretics, ill be happy to see yours as youve mad me out to be a liar, truth justice and equality. I await your response if you answer me ill write down the authors name of the degrees of koc book i have ye ha



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
www.residentgroups.fsnet.co.uk... right senrak heres my copy of the oath of the hibernians swearing to kill protestant heretics, ill be happy to see yours as youve mad me out to be a liar, truth justice and equality. I await your response if you answer me ill write down the authors name of the degrees of koc book i have ye ha


Well...I guess you've proven me wrong Davie ol' boy. Someone put it on the internet so by god it must be true! (and BOY you must be gullible)

Here are the titles of the books I have:

Knights of Columbus Ceremonials
containing the Rituals of the First, Second and Third Degrees
Approved, Board of Directors,
John W. McDevitt, Supreme Knight

(this has been a few years back. McDevitt is no longer Supreme Knight)

and

Ritual of the
Ancient Order of Hibernians
Arranged by the National Board
"Friendship, Unity, True Christian Charity"

(ooooooooohhhhhhh now THAT sounds evil!!!!!)

in my Catholic Fraternity section of my library I also have the rituals of

The Catholic Knights of America
The Daughters of Isabella
and the Knights of Peter Claver.


Funny thing, though. Every one of them is very pro-Catholic (as you might expect a Catholic Organization to be) but NONE of them even MENTION Protestants or Masons. Hmmm.

I notice your title is "Orangeman" Dave. Are you a member of the Loyal Orange Lodge? Now they DO mention the Catholics specifically, don't they? Members swear not to ever become Catholic, nor to marry one nor to raise their children as Catholics.

Sure is strange that the Catholic orders don't mention Protestants.

[shrug]

Have a nice day Davie boy. Maybe we can go to Lodge together when I come to Scotland next summer.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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once again senrak, i have provided the facts and all u can say is they must be true if on the interner how pitiful for you can you not prove them to be false? i have a book on the knights by alan axelrod with the same info as ive previously posted! i have seen the aoh ritual fisrts hand in ireland as my dad is irish catholic from tubercurry republic of ireland i await your speedy response. Once again confronted with the facts refuses to accept them but plays word games how pathetic?



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:23 PM
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right senrak, these oathes have come first hand from ireland how to you claim they are lies when living in the states, Answer on an e-mail to above top secrets sice u know so much



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
once again senrak, i have provided the facts


No, you've posted unsubstantiated statements



and all u can say is they must be true if on the interner


You seem to think so.



how pitiful for you can you not prove them to be false?


I've tried, but you won't believe what I've posted, and yet I'm to believe what YOU post?



i have a book on the knights by alan axelrod with the same info as ive previously posted!


That's strange. I have a book by Alan Axelrod called "The International Encyclopedia of Secret Societies and Fraternal Orders" and on page 151 under the title of Knights of Columbus it says (among other things) "In contrast to the Masons, Knights of Columbus members swear no oaths, as this would be contrary to the wishes of the Church." Hmmm.....YOU have a book by Axelrod that says the Oath you posted is FACT and I have a book by Axelrod that says the Knights swear no oaths? VERY INTERESTING.



i have seen the aoh ritual fisrts hand in ireland


I have seen the AOH ritual first hand in the official copy I have in my collection of ritual books. (Speaking of Rituals, the U.S. Masons DO have the Mark Degree that you mentioned in another post)



as my dad is irish catholic from tubercurry republic of ireland


If your dad is Irish Catholic and the Oath is real, why hasn't he killed you? The oath must not mean much, nor be anything to worry about if no one actually carries it out....ever think of that?



i await your speedy response.


Speedy enough?



Once again confronted with the facts refuses to accept them but plays word games how pathetic?


No, pathetic is someone who claims to be a Mason yet spreads lies about others. You've presented no facts....only ridiculous untruths.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
right senrak, these oathes have come first hand from ireland how to you claim they are lies when living in the states,


No. They've come first hand from the source in the link I posted to you earlier....in case you've lost it, here's the link:

www.geocities.com...




Answer on an e-mail to above top secrets sice u know so much


Uhm...you want me to e-mail ATS? To whom should I direct the e-mail? The moderators of this forum are reading this anyway and I seriously doubt moderators of other forums on ATS are interested. But if you'll give me the e-mail address you'd like me to send it to, I'll be glad to do it....I guess


[edit on 1-1-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 1-1-2005 by senrak]



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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right senrak, you have said my internet oaths are false but provide internet links yourself
so ive said they came from irelnd and have seen them in written form but you have a book can u really say mine is false when you are using the same kind of info, and i live in an area dominated by the koc and aoh what kind of first hand info do u have?



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:48 PM
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senrak, ok hers my msn addy orangandblue@msn.com if u have a mic we will have a converstion. U believe the official catholic take on these but they cant even admit to coverups it is u who is gullible!



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
right senrak, you have said my internet oaths are false but provide internet links yourself
so ive said they came from irelnd and have seen them in written form but you have a book can u really say mine is false when you are using the same kind of info, and i live in an area dominated by the koc and aoh what kind of first hand info do u have?


I provided the internet links because you seem to believe everything that is written on the internet. I've seen them in written form. Many untruths are in print. That's how they are perpetuated, but being printed and distributed. I live in a highly Catholic area myself...founded by Spanish, settled by French. Germans came later so there are quite a few Lutherans around, but we tolerate them.


I have (as I've said repeatedly) MANY Catholic friends, one of whom is a 4th Degree Knight of Columbus....one is a Priest. Several members of my church (Episcopal) are former Catholics. I have copies of the K of C and AOH rituals. Need it be any more "first hand" than that?



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