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Does Christianity command believers to follow Satan?

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posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: ABissell

Okay. So, If Jesus was God in the Flesh, then it would have also been futile for Satan to lie to Jesus about being able to offer him his kingdom, "The World".

Right?

Therefore, ergo ipso fatso
......Satan IS the ordained ruler of "The World".


edit on 25-7-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: ABissell
a reply to: windword

Your right!


My opinion is Satan lies to deceive man to disobey God. In this he is speaking to God and knows there is no point to lie or deceive God. Yes, this is just my opinion.


Thank you for the support.

I would agree with you. Because God cannot be tempted.

In the Quran Satan never trys to challenge Allah's rule, he simply refused to bow to man because he was arrogant, thinking he is better than man.

The Quran claims that Satan will abandon all of his followers, telling them that he never had power over them, except the power they gave him. Satan knows he has no authority of his own, only the authority to tempt us with his lies.

He is the lying conscious within us that attempts to justify things we know that we should not do.

Add - The scriptures don't tell us what Satan knew about Christ. The Christ's full identity may have been hidden from Satan.
edit on 25-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: Profusion
Picture yourself and I standing on the Brooklyn Bridge.
I say to you: "Behold this large bridge. I will give it to you if you but give me your shoes."

Does my statement prove that I own the Brooklyn Bridge?



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: windword

Not the 5th 0r 8th or 47th for sure. What do ya mean which commandments?
All of em are apart from following Satan being a commandment because following
Satan isn't a commandment.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

Specifically I meant, "Which commandments, the "10" or the "2"? You know the two that Jesus gave us?

I don't see how the 10 Commandments clarify who own "The World", Jesus or Satan. I don't see how the "2" do, either.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66


“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”

(NIV) Isaiah 14:12




I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and kthe descendant of David, the bright morning star.

(NIV) Revelations 22: 16


St. Jerome (and others) translated the words "morning star" as lucifer, aka light bearer or bringer.




When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.

John 8:12


Jesus is "the lion of the the tribe of Judah" (Rev. 5:5) and Satan is "a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." (1 Pet. 5:8)

So Satan wants to eat you, and Jesus wants you to eat him. (Mat. 26:26) Fetishistic cannibalism?

Not for nothin', Job 1:6 also says "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them." So Satan is among the company of the Sons of god. Job 2:1 says the same thing.

Just sayin'


"Fetishistic cannibalism"

Claims like that make me seriously doubt how worthwhile it is to participate in discussions on this board...



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ABissell

Okay. So, If Jesus was God in the Flesh, then it would have also been futile for Satan to lie to Jesus about being able to offer him his kingdom, "The World".


Whether he was or wasn't God is an interesting discussion by its self. But, let's go with it. I was taught that God was Jesus, yes. But why would God need to be Jesus in order to forgive us? He's God can't he just do it? He could of, but he wanted to experience temptation of the flesh and world like man has. So even though God was Jesus, Jesus was not God. Meaning God had to be Jesus to experience what we do, but Jesus couldn't be God to experience fully what we do.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: Profusion
A logical argument can be made that Christianity commands believers to follow Satan by combining Matthew 4 and Romans 13.

In Matthew 4 verse 9 in my opinion it states clearly that Satan was in control of "all the kingdoms of the world." You have to use a little logic to deduce that. To me it's obvious, Satan could only give something away that he was in control of.


Matthew 4
New International Version
Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness

1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempteda by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’b ”

5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“ ‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’c ”
7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’d ”

8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’e ”

11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.


Let's look at Romans 13.


Romans 13
New International Version
Submission to Governing Authorities

1Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


My argument is simple, according to the Bible:

Satan is in control of "all the kingdoms of the world."

Romans 13 commands Christians to "be subject to the governing authorities."

Therefore, Christianity commands believers to follow Satan.

I believe that's perfect logic. Am I missing something?


Satan "rules" over all the nations of the earth in the sense that sin "rules" all humanity. The world has been conquered by sin and death. Jesus came to overcome death, and succeeded through his resurrection. Satan does not have a rightful, God-given ridership of Earth, but rather through sin, people have given their allegiance to him, in a sense.

I would agree with the above post that there's no certainty if Satan knew Jesus was God made flesh, or simply just a prophet, and also that Satan lies and tempts. That's all he's doing here. Regardless of whether or not Satan knew Jesus' true identity, he became human and by doing so made himself somewhat vulnerable to temptation of the flesh.

Paul's writings do not order Christians to follow Satan because Satan does not control all governing authorities in that literal sense.

I don't have a moment to find the verse, but it is specified to obey the governing authorities UNLESS asked to do something against their conscience and morality as a Christian. It might even be included in the entirety of the verse you've cited.

The verse essentially asks Christians to follow the law and order of their governing authorities because:
A. A religion that commanded its people to defy all governments would not be very popular with the governing authorities and the believers would have been persecuted more than they already were in Ancient Rome and the entire religion likely wouldn't have survived.
B. There's God's law and man's law. Both are as they are for a reason. Man's law is meant to be broken or disobeyed only if it infringes on God's law. Many laws coincide with Christian morality as it is. Many are very unrelated but need to be followed for the order of society.

So to answer plainly, no. The Bible commands Christians to reject sin and Satan. These two verses do no change that. Assuming that these verses indicate a command to follow Satan is not really a logical assertion because it takes the verses out of the context of the bible and its messages as a whole.
edit on 25-7-2015 by Achilles92x because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-7-2015 by Achilles92x because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: windword

Oh! very well,




I don't see how the 10 Commandments clarify who own "The World", Jesus or Satan. I don't see how the "2" do, either.


I don't either, so OP must be wrong with the claim
that Christianity commands that we follow Satan.
Oh wait, that would mean we agree again. Hmmm
I'll see what I can do?




posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

Satan said he would give it, it does not mean it was his to give.

Kill my father and I will give you his house. Does that infer I own the house? No.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 09:51 PM
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Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”


So you believe Satan to be honest, that he owns all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor?



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:38 PM
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originally posted by: ABissell

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ABissell

Okay. So, If Jesus was God in the Flesh, then it would have also been futile for Satan to lie to Jesus about being able to offer him his kingdom, "The World".


Whether he was or wasn't God is an interesting discussion by its self. But, let's go with it. I was taught that God was Jesus, yes. But why would God need to be Jesus in order to forgive us? He's God can't he just do it? He could of, but he wanted to experience temptation of the flesh and world like man has. So even though God was Jesus, Jesus was not God. Meaning God had to be Jesus to experience what we do, but Jesus couldn't be God to experience fully what we do.


According to the teaching as I know it, Jesus was divine and not at all like your layman. I guess if we are to remove supernatural from the equation one could argue a high level of enlightenment. So I follow you when you say God needed to be Jesus to experience on the mortal plane but not sure what you mean at the end. "Jesus couldn't be God to experience fully what we do"

In a sense if God exists and we are his creation than everyone of us is God. As it was written, created in his image. So if anything, Jesus being a special breed was God being Jesus and Jesus being God, whereas "we" are God being us. ....*scratches head* wait, now I'm confused.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 06:32 AM
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a reply to: Rosinitiate

It's confusing to me too. Who Jesus was or wasn't and whether he even needed to be God or not. Whether Council of Constantinople, Council of Nicaea, or some other council decide this to push a better(for them) type of religion. Perverting it enough for their own gain. Who knows?

But back to the topic, Christians are not commanded to worship or obey Satan. The OP has perverted the scriptures.
edit on 7-26-2015 by ABissell because: Typo



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 08:08 AM
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originally posted by: ABissell
a reply to: Rosinitiate

It's confusing to me too. Who Jesus was or wasn't and whether he even needed to be God or not. Whether Council of Constantinople, Council of Nicaea, or some other council decide this to push a better(for them) type of religion. Perverting it enough for their own gain. Who knows?

But back to the topic, Christians are not commanded to worship or obey Satan. The OP has perverted the scriptures.


Maybe/maybe not. To me the apple represents free will in the sense that prior to the apple there was no differentiation between right and wrong. Which means there was only one way, one path lacking any semblance of free will, yet, the tree itself represents that free will if only to chose to have free will. Almost like an oxymoron and a self fulfilling prophecy. Surely even if he wasn't "all knowing" should have had the foresight to recognize sooner or later people grow bored of repetition not to mention "idle hands is the devils playground" (had to squeeze that in there).

So here we have a God manipulating us and setting us on a collision course with a cold hard reality. The one to greet us at the doors of this new reality is that vicious snake. So God either created a paradox he couldn't solve or he's just plain cruel. Looking throughout the Old Testament, I'd say six in one, half a dozen in the other.
edit on 26-7-2015 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 07:12 PM
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this

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ABissell

Okay. So, If Jesus was God in the Flesh, then it would have also been futile for Satan to lie to Jesus about being able to offer him his kingdom, "The World".

Right?

Therefore, ergo ipso fatso
......Satan IS the ordained ruler of "The World".




he is the "prince" (John 12:30) of this world. But, God still has all control and thus is King (John 14:30-31). Regardless, we are in this world temporarily, and meant to be drawn from it:

"If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world." (John 15:19)
edit on 26-7-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Profusion

Satan said he would give it, it does not mean it was his to give.

Kill my father and I will give you his house. Does that infer I own the house? No.


Right?

Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."

10Then Jesus said to him, Yeah? Okay, Bro, and I've got some beach front property on the Moon for you!




posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 06:28 PM
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originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: ABissell
a reply to: Rosinitiate

It's confusing to me too. Who Jesus was or wasn't and whether he even needed to be God or not. Whether Council of Constantinople, Council of Nicaea, or some other council decide this to push a better(for them) type of religion. Perverting it enough for their own gain. Who knows?

But back to the topic, Christians are not commanded to worship or obey Satan. The OP has perverted the scriptures.


Maybe/maybe not. To me the apple represents free will in the sense that prior to the apple there was no differentiation between right and wrong. Which means there was only one way, one path lacking any semblance of free will, yet, the tree itself represents that free will if only to chose to have free will. Almost like an oxymoron and a self fulfilling prophecy. Surely even if he wasn't "all knowing" should have had the foresight to recognize sooner or later people grow bored of repetition not to mention "idle hands is the devils playground" (had to squeeze that in there).

So here we have a God manipulating us and setting us on a collision course with a cold hard reality. The one to greet us at the doors of this new reality is that vicious snake. So God either created a paradox he couldn't solve or he's just plain cruel. Looking throughout the Old Testament, I'd say six in one, half a dozen in the other.


Interesting. I see the apple as giving into the temptation of sin, turning away from God--which I'm sure is a pretty typical view of it. Human beings were created with free will, the apple did not change that. What did change, however, was choosing sin and turning away from God.
By turning away from God, it became like a child playing "Peak-a-boo." Human beings, like children, have "hidden themselves from God," but in reality, they've simply covered their eyes, can no longer see God (feel His presence) and therefore, like a child playing peek-a-boo, think God cannot see them. I can't see you, you can't see me.
Yet God CAN still see them. He is still there, present, waiting, arm extended for humanity.
This was not the beginning of free will, but the end of the overwhelming, certain feeling of God and His love.
Imagine all the things you CAN do but do not. Does that mean you don't have free will? No, of course you do.
Think of it like this:
You bring your new boyfriend/girlfriend to meet your parents, whom you have an incredibly supportive, loving, ideal relationship with. You have dinner together. Now you COULD unclothe yourselves, swipe everything off the table, and have intercourse right there in front of your parents, ruining the entire dinner. You COULD. You have free will to do so. In fact, you and your significant other have plenty of intercourse in private, away from your loving parents. But you wouldn't do that kind of thing at a special dinner in front of your amazing parents.

THAT is what I mean by the existence of free will before the apple. In the Garden, mankind was fully and wholly aware immersed by the love and presence of God to the point where sin was not even something one would ever consider.
In this same way, there would still be free will in heaven.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 02:57 AM
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originally posted by: Achilles92x

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: ABissell
a reply to: Rosinitiate

It's confusing to me too. Who Jesus was or wasn't and whether he even needed to be God or not. Whether Council of Constantinople, Council of Nicaea, or some other council decide this to push a better(for them) type of religion. Perverting it enough for their own gain. Who knows?

But back to the topic, Christians are not commanded to worship or obey Satan. The OP has perverted the scriptures.


Maybe/maybe not. To me the apple represents free will in the sense that prior to the apple there was no differentiation between right and wrong. Which means there was only one way, one path lacking any semblance of free will, yet, the tree itself represents that free will if only to chose to have free will. Almost like an oxymoron and a self fulfilling prophecy. Surely even if he wasn't "all knowing" should have had the foresight to recognize sooner or later people grow bored of repetition not to mention "idle hands is the devils playground" (had to squeeze that in there).

So here we have a God manipulating us and setting us on a collision course with a cold hard reality. The one to greet us at the doors of this new reality is that vicious snake. So God either created a paradox he couldn't solve or he's just plain cruel. Looking throughout the Old Testament, I'd say six in one, half a dozen in the other.


THAT is what I mean by the existence of free will before the apple. In the Garden, mankind was fully and wholly aware immersed by the love and presence of God to the point where sin was not even something one would ever consider.
In this same way, there would still be free will in heaven.


Curious, so who had the better teacher? Or is it experience? Or creativity? How is it that so many see such varying meaning from bible stories? Perhaps because they are vague often times with specifics and saturated with symbology.

I think what's so tiresome to me is having to read a story from the bible and than find out which culture the story was originally derived from so I can understand its context.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 04:22 AM
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a reply to: windword

if he was he would use phenomenal expressions that would try to hide exactly that.

www.godlikeproductions.com...

see what i mean?



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 04:28 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

mmh yes? it's kind of implied



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