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Just Wondering...

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posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




Thousands of feet of detonation cords and other hardware cannot be quickly removed from such a site and would have been clearly evident to recovery crews and investigators for months afterward.


Why would they need detonation cords? That would be ridiculous...wireless remote detonators have been around for a very long time, and if they used RDX (used by the military for quite a long time) the charges would have been completely gone upon detonation, leaving no casings behind. Same thing if they were using thermite cutter charges, which I believe I read somewhere they found evidence of after the event.




posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




The major holes that I saw were the result of disinformation from the 9/11 conspiracy websites. I have had to correct them on the way we do things in the real world of aviation and it didn't take long for me to realize that there were people who were deliberately planting disinformation on the Internet in order to discredit the Truther Movement, knowing that the CT folks would report their disinformation. Here is a classic example where a doctored video was used by some truthers as proof of the demolition of WTC 7.

WTC Demolition Video

Posting tons of disinformation that have been planted has made a mockery out of the Truther Movement.


Wow...really? Let me get this straight: you're saying that all of the evidence that directly points to the official story being a sham was actually planted there by the very government you are insisting is innocent in all of this? So they actually spent the time and resources on fabricating evidence and planting it to deliberately discredit people who were actually there when the whole thing went down? Are you kidding me?

First of all, what could they possibly hope to gain by discrediting people who came forward with the truth other than the purpose we have all already stated, which was to obfuscate said evidence in order to perpetrate the lie that is their official story? In other words, if this were actually true (we know it's not and so do you, but for the sake of the argument we'll pretend it is) you're making our point for us...in spades.

You're saying these people spent the money and resources to literally go into the debris and plant evidence of explosives, which is tampering with evidence and highly illegal, and you're somehow ok with that, but not ok with the idea that they fabricated a cover story?? Do you have any idea how convoluted and outlandish that sounds? Yet you're openly mocking the "Truther Movement" as you so hilariously refer to the folks who know better and saying that their theories are completely improbable? The opinions being stated and theories being offered are based on witness testimony and actual evidence, so you're saying that all of that was "planted" or faked, do you realize that?

I personally find it highly improbable that some government agency was scrabbling around in the dust and rubble, planting false evidence of explosives just so that someone would stumble upon it and start up the nefarious "Truther Movement". What would be the point? The people who gave testimony, who were actually there, including people who survived against all odds, the firefighters who were actually rescuing people from certain death and risking their lives in the process...you're saying that all of those people were simply reacting to planted disinfo? Because we aren't just tossing out opinions here...there is actual evidence pointing to the truth, and that truth is not the official story.

What, did they do a mass hypnosis on them and plant false memories in their brains before they were captured on film stating everything that they saw, heard and felt, solely to make them believe they heard explosions, etc. so that they'd tell people that and create an opportunity to make a mockery out of them? Even if anyone was stupid enough to believe what you are saying, you are only reinforcing the fact that the government lied about what happened, and taking it a step further by insinuating that you have some super secret, special inside knowledge that they planted false evidence for the sole purpose of having a good laugh at others' expense, of all the ridiculous reasons, and you are starting to trip over your own falsehoods. This is a good example of that.

To recap: You're saying that false physical evidence (because it's not just opinion, there is actual evidence, which has been offered over and over again on this very thread) was deliberately planted at the site so that it would be recorded in the documentation of the investigation, then fed to people who were somehow pre-selected because whomever is behind this evidence-planting scheme knew that once these select people saw the evidence they'd tell the rest of the world, then they removed from the official report to make said people look like idiots so other people would mock them.

Additionally, all of the fire/rescue who were at the scene, all of the survivors, all of the eyewitnesses were somehow given false memories so that when they told their stories, the people behind this could all point and laugh. And if that wasn't enough, all of the experts had to have years upon years of false technical knowledge planted in their minds too, so that they would think that the false evidence was actually real.

That's pretty impressive...and it would have had to have been planned well in advance, because there are an awful lot of "Truthers" walking around on the planet, and a whole lot of them are demolitions experts, fire investigators, pilots...highly educated, experienced professionals. I wonder if they all know that such a meticulous, expensive plan was carried out for no other purpose than to give people something to laugh at?

It's a really cool story, but that is all it is. Fiction. And not even particularly good fiction, at that. Please stop. There has been enough injustice surrounding this event already without compounding it with silliness like this. People lost their lives, and their families have every right to demand the truth about what happened that day, so don't disrespect them further by making up more lies just so you can try to win an argument on the internet.


edit on 31421America/ChicagoThu, 30 Jul 2015 13:42:58 -050031pm31210America/Chicago by tigertatzen because: clarify

edit on 31501America/ChicagoThu, 30 Jul 2015 13:50:07 -050031pm31210America/Chicago by tigertatzen because: grrrrrrrrr



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: randyvs




Just to see if you can possibly see it cause it's
really hard to know where your head is at.

You're as wrong as you can be not to think these people are wicked.
and that's what you're afraid of hombre.
That the world isn't any where near what you want to believe.

Well come on! Correct me!


Obviously, he missed it entirely:



a reply to: randyvs

First of all, it was a mistake to post a video of Rice. I have blamed her and others, for ignoring many warnings from countries around the world that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda were in the process of carrying out their attack on America and use airliners as weapons.


I facepalmed so hard i almost knocked myself unconscious.

However, thank you for posting that because I've never seen that clip before...it's damning, and there was an unmistakable tremor in her voice, which is indicative of a person who is lying and is nervous about it.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen



Why would they need detonation cords? That would be ridiculous...wireless remote detonators have been around for a very long time, and if they used RDX (used by the military for quite a long time) the charges would have been completely gone upon detonation, leaving no casings behind.


Have you ever wondered why demolition companies do not use wireless detonators to demolish large buildings? There are two very good reasons. First of all, wireless detonators are not reliable enough to take down a building the size of the WTC Towers. How often have you lost a cell phone signal inside a building? Secondly, there is the safety factor because of the possibility of stray RF signals.

But before you can prepare a building for explosive demolition, the building must first be pre-weakened, otherwise the buildings will not collapse in a manner as planned, which was evident in 1993 when terrorist detonated a huge bomb beneath WTC 1, which left structure beams sitting within the huge bomb crater.

To demolish the WTC buildings, they must be gutted and elevator shafts, and stairwells have to be cut and fire walls have to be removed otherwise they will impede the collapse. In addition, floor support columns have to be cut. Pre-weakening is a very dirty and noisy process that would not have been tolerated in an occupied officer building and would have generated tons of waste debris.

Then, you have to gain access to the steel structures and place explosives firmly and strategically placed on the steel columns and structures and if explosives are not firmly attached to the steel structures, they will be ineffective because the blast wave will simply flow around a steel column like wind flowing around the wing of an aircraft.

Understand that the WTC Towers collapse at the points where they were struck by the aircraft, and since the collisions were violent enough to dislodged fire protection from the steel columns, there was no way that explosives would have remained attached either, but the lack of secondary explosions at the impact points further degrades the claim that explosives were placed where the collapse of the WTC Towers began.

We know that explosives were not used because if they were detonated while firmly attached to the steel columns, the detonation would have sent a signal into the ground, which would have been detected by seismic monitors in the area that were operated by the Protec. Co., which consist of a team of demolition experts and engineers. They were working on another project and were in the area when the WTC buildings collapsed and yet, they heard no demolition explosions, which is confirmed by the fact that no demolition explosions were heard on audio nor seen on video.

As Brent Blanchard,demolition writer and head of the Protec Co. has said, you cannot overlook all of the explosive hardware at a demolition site.


...with when Same thing if they were using thermite cutter charges, which I believe I read somewhere they found evidence of after the event.


The ingredients of thermite, such as aluminum and iron oxide (rust) , would have been expected to be found, even in structural primer. Steven Jones managed to dupe a number of people that components of thermite, (aluminum and iron oxide) which were actually present in the thousands of aluminum panels that made up the facade of the WTC Towers and the airframes of the two aircraft, and rust on the structural collapse of those buildings.

As far as the metallic spheres are concerned, there were the result of the welding process during construction of the WTC buildings and during cleanup operations as crews cut steel columns with high temp wands and torches.

To sum it up, there is no real mystery as to how the WTC buildings collapsed, but there are those such as Steven Jones, who managed to convince people that reflection from a flashlight was molten steel, and Richard Gage who take advantage of people who are not aware of the rest of the story.
edit on 30-7-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: hellobruce




True, truthers do not want to believe that the people making money from 9/11 will say anything, and put anything up on youtube to keep the money rolling in!


Why would they not want to believe that? It makes perfect sense that the people who are perpetuating the government lie and obfuscating the truth would profit monetarily from it if they have the opportunity. After all, the whole reason the 9/11 event was orchestrated and carried out by our own government was to make the pockets of all involved just that much fatter with cash. The people who know this already are the same ones exposing the lies, so it's already common knowledge anyway. Nice try though, that was actually kinda cute.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen



Wow...really? Let me get this straight: you're saying that all of the evidence that directly points to the official story being a sham was actually planted there by the very government you are insisting is innocent in all of this?


I am in agreement with the OS, but what I am saying is that there are people who have nothing to do with the government, that are planting disinformation in order to discredit the Truth Movement.

The Eddy Current WTC 7 video was a prime example of what I was talking about because he doctored a video of WTC 7 and planted false detonations and amazingly, there were truthers who actually posted on the Internet that the doctored video of WTC 7 was proof that explosives were used to demolish WTC 7. I found many other examples as well.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen



After all, the whole reason the 9/11 event was orchestrated and carried out by our own government was to make the pockets of all involved just that much fatter with cash.


That is false. First of all, in the months and even years leading up to the 9/11 attack, countries around the world issued warnings to the United States that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda would use aircraft to kill thousands of people in the United States. In fact, even the Taliban issued issued its own warning to the United States about Osama bin Laden's planned terrorist attack, and furthermore, some of the countries that issued the warnings to the United States were Muslim.

To sum that up, there is no evidence, and never was, of a False Flag operation, which is why truthers have failed to provide a single shred of evidence of a False Flag operation.

As far back as 1995, the Philippine government uncovered the Bojinka Plot, which would have used hijack airliners to kill thousands of people, and CIA headquarters was named as one of the targets.



The people who know this already are the same ones exposing the lies, so it's already common knowledge anyway.


Would you care to view my list that I have compiled over the years where truthers took disinformation and lies and used them in their arguments? Let's take a couple for starters.

Do you remember when truthers had claimed that United 93 did not crash at Shanksville, but landed at Cleveland Airport? That claim was debunked when it was determined that the aircraft truthers claimed was United 93, was actually Delta 1989.

It didn't stop there. Truthers then claimed that passengers of United 93 were seen boarding a bus at Cleveland Airport. When that claim was checked, it was determined that the passengers they mistaken as passengers of United 93 were actually a team of scientist who had just disembarked from a KC-135.

Those are just two of the many examples that I have compiled over the years so is it any wonder why after 14 years, not one shred of evidence has been found that point to a False Flag operations. Now, you know how the Truth Movement has made itself a laughingstock as it is today.


edit on 30-7-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: randyvs



Now you can add lost an argument to an ironworker.


Really!! Care to post documentation that proves me wrong? I would be more than happy to go in head-to-head challenge with any so-called iron worker in a debate.
edit on 30-7-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen



Apparently, the 9/11 Commission report denied the existence of any reinforcement in the core columns at all, and actually stated that they were "hollow steel shafts". FEMA apparently concurred.


Let's take a look.

WTC Tower Construction



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: Nova937



No. The Media said he admitted to the attack. The Media posted those fake videos of him admitting to the attack. In fact it was after only 2 hours from the start of the attack that Boy George Bush said it was OBL that did the attack based on no evidence whatsoever. And OBL was on his deathbed at the time of the 9/11 attack. Funny how there was never a video of him supposedly admitting his guilt from a Hospital bed!


Osama bin Laden changed his tune and admitted that he was responsible, which was confirmed by al-Qaeda, and who was head of al-Qaeda at that time? Osama bin Laden.



Al-Qaeda....hmmm. Al-Qaeda is a database of International Mercenaries and not a Terrorist group. So there is no head of Al-Qaeda. So anything the media say about them you take with a pinch of salt as it will probably just be a bunch of disinfo and False Propaganda!


Let's take a look.



Brief History of al Qaeda

is a global militant Islamist organization founded by Osama bin Laden.

It has been designated as a terrorist group by the United Nations Security Council, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the European Union, the United States, Russia, India, and various other countries

Brief History of al-Qaeda

Al-Qaeda


Apparently, al-Qaeda is tagged as a terrorist organization.



Sorry. 9/11 stinks to hell. 3 Towers with 2 planes is an impossibility.


It is all very simple to understand if you knew the rest of the story.


Origami Boeing Aircraft don't exist apart from at the Pentagon


I don't understand what you are implying considering that the Boeing Aircraft Co. is also a defense contract. I might add that the Boeing Aircraft Co. and American Airlines supplied the conversion formulas that pertained only to the FDR of American 77 and not other aircraft.


...and Aluminium Aircraft can't bury themselves in thick dirt at Shanksville. Especially into a hole in the ground that was already there. Good Aiming!!


Let's me aim these photos of other aircraft accidents that have created holes in the ground similar to the crater of United 93.

Caspian 7908 Airliner

Caspian Airlines 7908 Crash Site


Bellview Airlines B-737

Bellview Airlines Crash Site


United 93

United 93 Crash Site


United Airlines Confirms Loss of United 93

Black Box of United 93 Found


Text: United Airlines Statement on Plane Crashes

Following is a statement issued by United Airlines on the crash of Flight 93 near Pittsburgh and Flight 175 in a location that was not immediately disclosed:

United Airlines has now confirmed that two of its aircraft have crashed.

— UA 93, a Boeing 757 aircraft, departed from Newark, N.J. at 8:01 a.m. local time, bound for San Francisco, with 38 passengers on board, two pilots, five flight attendants.

— UA 175, a Boeing 767 aircraft, departed from Boston at 7:58 a.m. local time, bound for Los Angeles, with 56 passengers on board, two pilots and seven flight attendants.

United has confirmed it will dispatch a team to Johnstown, Pa., as soon as possible to assist, in every way possible, with the investigation and to provide assistance to the family members.

“Our thoughts are with the passengers, employees and family members of those involved. Today’s events are a tragedy and our prayers are with everyone at this time,” said James E. Goodwin, United’s CEO.

Goodwin said United is working with all the relevant authorities involved in today’s events and will provide further information as soon as it is available.

www.washingtonpost.com...


Ignorance of the facts and evidence over the years is what has made the Truth Movement a laughingstock that it is today.


edit on 30-7-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409

Like the claim of the Passport found near Ground Zero? LMAO that was a good one! Talk about planted evidence ready for the idiots to believe!



As the news reader said 'If you can believe that'.

Yeah right!

Just like the hijackers apparently being in certain places at the right times....lol

Here we go. Drills, Modified Photos, Modified Videos, Modified Witnesses, Crisis Actors, Missing real Witness Testimonies,,,,,,the list goes on!

What is a truther? Someone seeking the truth? What is someone that believes everything the media and Government tells them. GULLIBLE!



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: randyvs




a reply to: tigertatzen

Yes tube with in a tube structure. Do you also know the gage?
I believe it was inch and 1/4 but they were massive and the
way one of the planes hit, two of the engines never struck
the core from what I can tell. Yet they both fell withy exactly
the same resistance. Just having two buildings fall exactly
the same way says demolition. And on 911 we have three.



Each tower was supported by a structural core extending from its bedrock foundation to its roof. The cores were rectangular pillars with numerous large columns and girders, measuring 87 feet by 133 feet. The core structures housed the elevators, stairs, and other services. The cores had their own flooring systems, which were structurally independent of the floor diaphragms that spanned the space between the cores and the perimeter walls. The core structures, like the perimeter wall structures, were 100 percent steel-framed.

The exact dimensions, arrangement, and number of the core columns remained somewhat mysterious until the publication of a leaked collection of detailed architectural drawings of the North Tower in 2007. Although the drawings show the dimensions and arrangement of core columns, they do not show other engineering details such as the core floor framing. It is clear from photographs, such as the one on the right, that the core columns were abundantly cross-braced.


SOURCE

This site has everything, including photos and diagrams...it is a wealth of information, and very well-written. They state that the thickness at the bottom was 4-5" and as thin as 1/4" at the very top because they taper, but they were cross-braced very heavily and you can see that in some of the photos. They were specifically designed to be as close to indestructible as possible, and I think there were some upgrades on top of the already sturdy design after the 1993 incident as well...the more I read, the more I can see that the official story is 100% total BS, and I am not even particularly well-versed in architectural design other than what I learned in Art History in college.

This design was solid. Did planes hit the structures? I believe they did...at least the towers, the Pentagon is another thing entirely, but did planes bring those structures down? No way in hell. And the tube-within-tube design, along with the modifications for the elevator system afforded them perfect secluded places to plant explosives....they could have done it in broad daylight on a Monday morning and people would never have even seen them there.

They also have a link for the blueprints on this site that were leaked after being hidden in the official investigation, and of course they lied about the columns and said they were hollow when the complete opposite was true. Blatantly trying to make it seem as if the structures were weaker than they actually were to support the monstrous lies they fed the public.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: Nova937



Like the claim of the Passport found near Ground Zero? LMAO that was a good one! Talk about planted evidence ready for the idiots to believe!


What makes you believe that passports cannot survive aircraft accidents? Let's take a look here at this passport and a dollar bill that survived a fiery airplane crash in Nepal.

Passport Survives Fiery Airliner Crash in Nepal

Passport Survives Fiery Airplane Crash in Nepal



ust like the hijackers apparently being in certain places at the right times....lol


As captured on video.

9/11 Hijackers on Video


Here we go. Drills,...


Just yesterday, i posted a long list of drills that were conducted before, and after, the 9/11 attack, but it is evident that you were not aware that the government conducted over 40 drills, which I had listed.


Modified Photos...


I have caught truthers posting modified photos of American 77 and called them on it. They backed down after I posted documentation on dimensions of the B-757.



, Modified Videos,


The modified video of WTC 7 made a mockery out of truthers who used the doctored video as their proof that WTC 7 was demolish by explosives but what made the truthers look like clowns is that they failed to noticed that the video of WTC 7 in the video they said was proof, was a reversed-imagery of WTC 7 and they failed to notice the descrapancy.



Modified Witnesses, ...


You must mean William Rodrequez who made truthers look like clowns when it was determined that he was a fraud. I have often said that truther claims are based on ignorance and disinformation.



edit on 30-7-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409

I don't know where you get this garbage from, but you go on ahead and keep telling yourself that you're some kind of special expert on construction if that makes you feel better. They most certainly do use remote detonators to level buildings, and the reason for that should be obvious, even to you. I have seen it up close, so get out of here with that nonsense. Remote detonation is also used to blow explosives on movie sets. You are reaching now, have been for a while. Pretty soon you're going to run out of nonsense and then where will you be?



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




You must mean William Rodrequez who made truthers look like clowns when it was determined that he was a fraud. I have often said that truther claims are based on ignorance and disinformation.


You finding an article from 2011 on a page that's been closed down and trying to pass that off as truth does not "determine" anything, just FYI. It is your opinion, nothing more, and you can keep on grasping at straws all you want, bombing the thread with unsubstantiated garbage from questionable sources and passing it off as "truth", but it will not make what you are saying any more credible. I'll give you half a star for tenacity though...your capacity for pedantic repetition is singularly astonishing.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen



I don't know where you get this garbage from, but you go on ahead and keep telling yourself that you're some kind of special expert on construction if that makes you feel better.


I am an aircraft structural technician who understands the specifics of what happened as well as a pilot to understand that truthers have been posting disinformation and lies over the years since the 9/11 attack.


They most certainly do use remote detonators to level buildings, and the reason for that should be obvious, even to you.


Ask Brent Blanchard, world-renown demolition expert and writer, why they don't use remote controls to demolish tall buildings.


I have seen it up close, so get out of here with that nonsense. Remote detonation is also used to blow explosives on movie sets.


The problem is, Hollywood is one thing, commercial demolition of buildings is anorher, so once again, demolition companies to not use such devices to demolish tall buildings.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen



This design was solid.


Let's take a look to see just how solid the WTC Towers were.

WTC 1 and WTC 2 Silhouetted



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen



It is your opinion, nothing more, and you can keep on grasping at straws all you want, bombing the thread with unsubstantiated garbage from questionable sources and passing it off as "truth", but it will not make what you are saying any more credible. I'll give you half a star for tenacity though...your capacity for pedantic repetition is singularly astonishing.


It is no secret that William Rodriquez is a fraud and used as a reference by truthers. He was even caught lying on CNN.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409

I take back everything I said in the OP. I am totally convinced now, I am completely wrong in my mental faculties. I must be a moron to think this was all just a concocted conspiracy. Will you forgive me my transgressions? You are right. I am wrong. I used the shovel to bury my head in the sand and you helped me retrieve it. How will I ever repay your kindness?



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen




They also have a link for the blueprints on this site that were leaked after being hidden in the official investigation, and of course they lied about the columns and said they were hollow when the complete opposite was true. Blatantly trying to make it seem as if the structures were weaker than they actually were to support the monstrous lies they fed the public.



Perfectly rational. Can't understand for the life of me how being aviator and
structural designer negates common sense but it does seem to be the case.




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