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Just Wondering...

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posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 01:56 AM
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a reply to: randyvs

You know, my daughter in law has a problem. She has a husband that steals and cheats on her. She does not want to admit it because doing so would force her to admit she has been taken advantage of. This is what comes to mind when I see so many people dig their heels in on this matter.

Admitting they were taken advantage of is harder than a continued belief of the lie itself.

No amount of evidence would suffice to change the minds of those that have had 14 years to get the truth wrapped around their brains and still cling to the hope that what they thought was right along could not possibly be wrong.




posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 02:03 AM
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a reply to: In4ormant

What do you call the NIST report? Factual? Seriously? Look, all these reports you speak of are not factual. The conspiracy is not because realists refuse to accept the OS, the conspiracy exists because it took a group of cooperative powerful people to conspire for this to happen the way it did.

They control the media, they control the money, they control how these reports come to be. they can make a report about how my grandma's gas is methane causing the ozone depletion.
edit on 26-7-2015 by soulpowertothendegree because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 02:27 AM
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a reply to: soulpowertothendegree



The conspiracy is not because realists refuse to accept the OS, the conspiracy exists because it took a group of cooperative powerful people to conspire for this to happen the way it did.


That is false. The United States is full of journalist looking for a sensational story and yet, after 14 years, they found no evidence of a 9/11 government conspiracy, which is clear because countries around the globe had warned the United States that terrorist were in the final stages of carrying out their attack on America. Remember, Osama Bin Laden declared war on the United States on multiple occasions and afterward, OBL admitted that he was responsible for 9/11 and al-Qaeda released the last will and testament videos of the 9/11 hijackers.



Bin Laden Claims Responsibility for 9/11

sama bin Laden (search ) made his first televised appearance in more than a year Friday in which he admitted for the first time ordering the Sept. 11 attacks and accused President Bush of "misleading" the American people.

Injecting himself into the campaign four days ahead of the presidential election, bin Laden said the United States can avoid another Sept. 11-style attack if it stops threatening the security of Muslims.

In the portion of the tape that was broadcast, the Al Qaeda (search) leader refrained from directly warning of new attacks, although he said "there are still reasons to repeat what happened."

"Your security is not in the hands of Kerry, Bush or Al Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands," bin Laden said, referring to the president and his Democratic opponent. "Any state that does not mess with our security, has naturally guaranteed its own security."

Admitting for the first time that he ordered the Sept. 11 attacks, bin Laden said he did so because of injustices against the Lebanese and Palestinians by Israel and the United States.

www.foxnews.com...


And remember, let's not forget the al-Qaeda martyr videos.



Al-Qaeda released martyr videos for most of the 9/11 hijackers

The Al Jazeera satellite network shows an hour-long video about al-Qaeda containing footage given to it from al-Qaeda of some of the 9/11 hijackers, including a martyr video from hijacker Abdulaziz Alomari (see September 9, 2002 and September 9, 2002).

A martyr video from hijacker Ahmed Alhaznawi was shown in April 2002. But this new hour-long video contains images of each of the hijacker teams that hijacked Flights 11, 77, 93 and 175 on September 11. These images show pictures of each hijacker in the team floating over a background.

9/11 Hijackers

9/11 Hijackers 2


Now, you know why, after 14 years, not one shred of evidence was ever found of a 9/11 government comspiracy.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 02:35 AM
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originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: randyvs

You know, my daughter in law has a problem. She has a husband that steals and cheats on her. She does not want to admit it because doing so would force her to admit she has been taken advantage of. This is what comes to mind when I see so many people dig their heels in on this matter.

Admitting they were taken advantage of is harder than a continued belief of the lie itself.

No amount of evidence would suffice to change the minds of those that have had 14 years to get the truth wrapped around their brains and still cling to the hope that what they thought was right along could not possibly be wrong.


Or look at it this way. Conspiracy proponents can't accept the random and uncontrolled nature of our existence and require a story which puts control at its heart. Go hunt through the other forums on this site. Everything is a conspiracy. Boston bombing. Chem trails. Sandy hook. Aliens. UFOs. Secret under ground bases.
All unprovable and based on the nature of our fragility and ultimate irrelevance in the grand scheme. Conspiracy fans feel threatened by this and seek to a narrative that shows a higher power operating.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 02:36 AM
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originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
I have a magnificent brain and it works quite well thank you. .


Then you should be able to explain to me how 12.5 cubic feet of nitrogen, oxygen and carbon weighing 1.25 pounds can destroy steel and a fully loaded B767 can not.


Explain the magic to me.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 02:39 AM
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a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

There is nothing in that video that implicates the U.S. government in the 9/11 attacks. The video is another example of how disinformation has run amok over the years. If Bush was referring to those in govenment, there would have been mass arrest and yet, not one single American government official has ever been implicated in the 9/11 attack, which is understandable considering that there is no evidence, and never was, that explosives were used, which has been confirmed by firefighters, police officials, structural and civil engineers and architects, demolition experts, and backed by confirmation from seismic monitors that did not detect explosions as the WTC buildings collapsed.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 02:58 AM
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a reply to: firerescue



Same thing happens to sawdust or other organic material if wetted. Get a big enough pile and heat can build up
enough to ignite it.

In my town had a company which made mulch from tree stumps, old pallets and other scrap wood

Did not turn pile over and keep aerated.

Coldest day of year (-10 F) pile caught file . Spent couple hours freezing our butt off putting out fire

Happened couple of times in winter.


I find it amazing that conspiracy theorist seem to think that thermite was responsible for high temperatures in the days after the 9/11 attack. Thermite reaction is short-lived and does not last for hours, much less days and weeks.

What really amazed me is when Steven Jones posted this photo as his proof of molten steel, many conspiracy folks jumped on the molten steel bandwagon.

Is This Molten Steel???

For time afterward, conspiracy theorist have said that the glow in the video was molten steel, but let's take another look to see if they are correct.

Molten steel on ground zero explained

Apparently, Steven Jones managed to convince a number of conspiracy theorist that the glow in the video was molten steel when it fact, the glow was actually reflection from a flashlight.

Simply amazing!



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 03:04 AM
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a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

Can't blame them really. Not like we don't understand the
whole ignorance is bliss world view. Maybe they regret the stance
they chose early on. But refuse to relent because people that look
up to them would be crushed, if they knew their hero was wrong?
They said the wrong thing with so much confidence and self
righteousness, there's no way they can let reality thru the gate.
Not ever. No wonder they're always on the attack it has to be stressful.
edit on Ram72615v08201500000021 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 03:09 AM
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I dont know what the 9-11 truth is,but I do know getting close to knowing it if your an American is very very unhealthy.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 03:18 AM
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originally posted by: randyvs


Not like we don't understand the whole ignorance is bliss world view.


You work with steel and claim it is to strong to be damaged or destroyed by aircraft aluminum. maybe you would like to have a go at this question.



originally posted by: waypastvne


I have a question for you or any other member of the truth movement to answer for me.

You claim that an aircraft weighing 250,000 pounds and traveling at 800 feet per second should bounce off or do very little damage to WTC 1 & 2 certainly not enough damage even with the fires to bring down the buildings.

You claim that only explosives can do that. So the question I am asking is.......

Can you explain the magic of explosives to me ??????????????????

Lets take for example C4 the explosive used in demolitions.

en.wikipedia.org...(explosive)

C4 comes in a package 2"x1.5"x11" and weighs 1.25 pounds. When C4 is detonates it converts from a solid to a gas. This gas consist mostly of Nitrogen, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, this gas still only weighs 1.25 pounds, it did not gain any mass during detonation, so its mass weight is still 1.25 pounds.

1.25 pounds of nitrogen / carbon dioxide / carbon monoxide gas comes out at about .1 pound per cubic foot, so 1.25 pounds of it equals 12.5 cubic ft. of gas.

That is about the same volume of air contained in your average refrigerator.

www.google.com... UQDx

So can you explain to me how a gas the same size as the air inside of my refrigerator can do more damage than a heavy/fast moving aircraft ???

Explain the magic to me. You can use truth physics to explain it if you want.


Remember: ASTM A242 steel has a 50ksi minimum yield strength and a 70ksi minimum tensile strength.



(no help from the other debunkers please)








posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 03:24 AM
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a reply to: randyvs



Wait for it..... I know this one..... rust.

It may be fire retardant but it's actually applied more so to prevent rust.

And you don't know what you're talk'n about.


Let's take a look at the inspection photos of one of the WTC buildings. Do you see any rust on the steel structures?

Any rust on the steel structures?

Any rust here?

If you see any rust on the steel structures, then that fire protection was not for the prevention of rust as you have claimed.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 03:57 AM
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a reply to: soulpowertothendegree



The OS has been debunked over and over.


Looking at the facts, false claims of the truther movement have been successfully debunked with facts and evidence.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:00 AM
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a reply to: skyeagle409

Truther movement? What's wrong with you? You think because people want the truth to come out that is an insult? What does that make people that believe the lies? The Liar Movement? Okay. Guilty. I am a truther, Happy now?



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:12 AM
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a reply to: soulpowertothendegree



I was not the one that blew those buildings to smithereens...


Terrorist had detonated a huge bomb beneath WTC 1 in 1993, so explain to us why the steel columns of WTC 1 remained standing within that huge bomb crater.

Once again, seismic monitors in the area did not detect explosions.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:13 AM
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originally posted by: sophie87
a reply to: Rocker2013

There's a ton of evidence; try Dr Judy Wood for start. Just because its not presented on cnn or fox doesn't make it illegitimate, you have to be very patient with this, its a magic trick.


Ah, thank you for that injection of crazy.
The woman who thinks space lazers did it.


I particularly enjoy her basic lie that "The upper 80 percent, approximately, of each tower was turned into fine dust and did not crash to the earth". Funny that, as someone who watched this event unfolding live on TV, I distinctly remember the tops of those buildings coming down, and the subsequent mass and weight of those portions of the buildings causing and exacerbating the collapse of the rest of those buildings.

If she really wants to try to rewrite history to conform to her nutty theories, she really needs to do a better job of it.

It's pretty depressing that anyone these days can put Dr at the start of their name and instantly gain some credibility, even when they are clearly completely irrational.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:21 AM
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a reply to: soulpowertothendegree



Truther movement? What's wrong with you? You think because people want the truth to come out that is an insult? What does that make people that believe the lies? The Liar Movement? Okay. Guilty. I am a truther, Happy now?


I have been in the business of aviation since 1967 and I have had to correct truthers on a number of things because their claims did not jive with what really occurs in the real world of aviation.

Much of what they were posting was actually disinformation planted in order to discredit the truther movement and it worked because the truther movement has now made itself the laughing stock in the eyes of the international community. Check it out.



Disinformation Killed 9/11 “Truth”

By 2009, the 9/11 “Truth” Movement was so inundated with disinformation that it had become a laughingstock. The easily-discredited claims (lies) contaminated the greater issue and soiled dissenters across the board. “Turd blossom” was a Karl Rove phrase that could describe what the movement had devolved into. The media, whether corporate or foundation-funded, could find people ranting about “the Jews” or the Illuminati, the Lizard People, the missiles, holograms, mini-nukes or space beam weapons vaporizing the Twin Towers.

Many trolls, and some public personalities, appeared to be professional disinformation artists hard at work concocting and posting this crap online, which others repeated to their own detriment. One cannot easily prove that a specific person is a paid shill, a disinformation agent, a cyber agent provocateur, but be assured they are out there, and “out there.”

DISINFORMATION TO DISCREDIT

Author Thomas Pynchon wrote, “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” I’ll go one better and in the process explain modern cyber disinformation: If they can get you asking stupid questions, then their lapdog media can dismiss you as a “nut.”

www.911truth....lled-911-truth...


It seems to me that truthers failed to understand that they have been taken for a ride to the cleaners by those who'd wished to discredit them. Do I need to say more?

One classic example is where a truther claimed that a pod was attached to the lower fuselage just forward of the wing of United 175. As it was, he actually confused the paint scheme of the airliner as a pod. Simply amazing!!
edit on 26-7-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:31 AM
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originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
As if your opinion on what happened is anymore justified.


When using evidence, science and fact to base your opinions on, those opinions are indeed more justified than wild speculation by people who have been consistently unable to offer any evidence for their beliefs.


originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
If anyone, I'll take the word of those who were actually there at ground zero. Like the firefighters who witnessed explosions before and after the planes hit.


The same firefighters who had no idea what was going on, didn't have the benefit of hindsight, and mostly had no clue that a second plane had even hit the second building, or that the Pentagon was a target, or that any other planes had been hijacked.

The same firefighters who were doing their job, inside the buildings, when they heard what sounded like explosions, but could have been anything causing a bang.

The same firefighters who had no idea of the structural nature of those buildings.

There is video footage of people outside in the street, on one side of the building, who only saw an explosion and didn't see the second plane. All they knew was that the second tower "exploded".

There were even broadcasters who stated this one air, while streaming the live video of the second plane coming in. They didn't see the plane, they saw the explosion, and they reported it as such. Then, minutes later, some bright spark in the news room obviously pointed out to them the second plane, and they began reporting on it.

If even the people LOOKING AT IT HAPPENING LIVE right in front of them were confused about what was happening, don't you think the firefighters on the scene, with even less awareness of what was going on would also be misunderstanding the situation?


originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
Like the investigators who found nearly every engine melted in every vehicle within a five block radius of the buildings. Yet, the abundance of unscorched paper was staggering.


Can you offer evidence of that?
I looked, and all I found was debunking information showing that it simply was not true. The cars did not melt, no engines melted, the cars were damaged by the heat from the dust cloud which was basically not too different from a pyroclastic flow you would expect from a volcanic eruption - hot gases and debris.


originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
I believe the truth of what happened that day is far more sinister than anyone can percieve. It's unfortunate it can't be properly discussed without pressure of ridicule and criticism.


Sorry, but when people make ridiculous claims about something when all the evidence is staring them right in the face, believing the completely unfounded and implausible and rejecting reality, they should be confronted.

edit on 26-7-2015 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:42 AM
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originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Zaphod58

Okay. All of them got destroyed, do you realize the odds of that? But a pristine passport was found? Amazing!


No.
You do understand that they have multiple supports in a building because MULTIPLE SUPPORTS ARE NEEDED? When a number of them fail the structural integrity of the building fails. You don't need to destroy all of them to weaken the structure.

There are also numerous instances of personal effects being found.
Which one are you talking about?
The one where an identity card was found with the remains of a passenger in the rubble?
The one where personal items of passengers were found with their various remains in Shanksville?
The one where a passerby (after the impact but BEFORE the collapse) found a passport amongst the masses of plane debris, building rubble and body parts strewn around the site and handed it to the FBI?

People keep demanding that us logical people look at the evidence they are presenting for their case, but none of you seem to have done the same.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:44 AM
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originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: skyeagle409

Tell me another instance where a fire completely destroyed a building to the point where it fell down free fall?


Tell me another instance where a building with the design specifications of the WTC, the height of those buildings, was hit by two passenger jets, and exposed to extreme heat over a period of time.



posted on Jul, 26 2015 @ 04:45 AM
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I have to reiterate that no one heard demolition explosions during the collapse of WTC 1, WTC 2 and WTC 7.

Once again, demolition experts in the area did not hear demolition explosions, which is why seismic monitors in the area did not detect bomb explosions as the WTC buildings collapsed.

Check it out.

Demolition Vs. World Trade Center: Audio Comparison



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