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Routine childhood diseases eliminated. Replaced with sudden death.

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posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 01:40 AM
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originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli

originally posted by: halfmask
That is an interesting article on vaccines being related to peanut allergies. I was never sold on the vaccines cause autism thing but I was always wondering about other potential effects and also wondered about the different ways they manufactured and synthesized vaccines. In general in theory vaccines should be safe when used appropriately, however, just like all things how is the quality control? Are there regular inspections and studies?

Yes. There is continuous monitoring of adverse effects (even made-up ones reported to VAERS), and the government funds research into the same.


Supposedly you guys in America are expected to give your children 60+ vaccines which is ridiculous is this number true?

No, it's not true. See for yourself.


Using the site you linked, I generated a scheduled for a made up child, and I counted 36 vaccine shots, definitively not 60+.




posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 08:17 AM
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originally posted by: halfmask

originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli

originally posted by: halfmask
That is an interesting article on vaccines being related to peanut allergies. I was never sold on the vaccines cause autism thing but I was always wondering about other potential effects and also wondered about the different ways they manufactured and synthesized vaccines. In general in theory vaccines should be safe when used appropriately, however, just like all things how is the quality control? Are there regular inspections and studies?

Yes. There is continuous monitoring of adverse effects (even made-up ones reported to VAERS), and the government funds research into the same.


Supposedly you guys in America are expected to give your children 60+ vaccines which is ridiculous is this number true?

No, it's not true. See for yourself.


Using the site you linked, I generated a scheduled for a made up child, and I counted 36 vaccine shots, definitively not 60+.

It should be noted that not all vaccines "reccommended" by the CDC have been codified into law.
This state PDF (link) lists requirements. Note that a child can have as little as 10 doses of 3 vaccines to be in compliance, depending on timing and previous medical history.

Of couse, the requirements often vary by state.

Harte



posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: GetHyped

You do know VAERS is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. run by the US health and human services right!?

If everyone acknowledges that they aren't 100% safe then when should they be mandatory. is the death on one innocent child by government mandate worth it... i don't think it is



posted on Jul, 27 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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originally posted by: smkymcnugget420
a reply to: GetHyped

You do know VAERS is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. run by the US health and human services right!?



Like other spontaneous reporting systems, VAERS has several limitations, including underreporting, unverified reports, inconsistent data quality, absence of a control group that is not vaccinated, and inadequate data about the number of people vaccinated. Indeed, an autism activist named Jim Laidler once reported to VAERS that a vaccine had turned him into The Incredible Hulk. The report was accepted and entered into the database, but the dubious nature thereof prompted a VAERS representative to contact Mr. Laidler, who then gave his consent to delete the report.[4]


en.wikipedia.org...


If everyone acknowledges that they aren't 100% safe then when should they be mandatory.


Literally nothing in this universe is 100% safe. Not even drinking water.

You still haven't answered my question:


find me a single person who says vaccines are safe 100% of the time



is the death on one innocent child by government mandate worth it... i don't think it is


Great, then you'll be happy to know that FAR more lives are saved due to vaccines that would otherwise die of childhood diseases.
edit on 27-7-2015 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 06:51 AM
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a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: FurvusRexCaeli

I call BS on the proper monitoring of side effects. Go back and read my anecdote. I was totally blown off by my pediatrician/his nurse and told that being 'fussy' was totally normal. I'm no alarmist, but there was something definitely wrong with my baby after the DTaP. I had to INSIST that they put it down as an adverse reaction in his chart AND send a report to VAERS. I could tell, even over the phone, that the nurse didn't really give a crap. So I doubt she reported it as she should.

How many more are like me? How many had a baby screaming bloody murder for several hours and didn't even try to report it? Maybe Jackson screaming WAS just normal 'fussy'....but according to research- that I had to do on my own- it could have very well been encephalitis. There would be no way to know without an MRI at the time of the inflammation. And a subsequent dose of whatever he was reacting to could have made it worse. Maybe, maybe not. But I'm not taking that chance. My son is a beautiful, happy, energetic, intelligent guy and I intend to keep it that way. I'll take whooping cough over brain damage any day.


So how did this all pan out? Was the trained medical professional correct and it all turned out to be just normal fussiness or were you correct and Jackson developed encephalitis?


edit on 28-7-2015 by ComplexCassandra because: Added quote



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Nothing better then irresponsible and misinformed parents, who doubt known prevention of life threatening diseases while grasping knowledge from comedy actor and known frauds...

I've interacted with similar in RL, some of them did not like to vaccinate their kids, risking their life and then having to do all vaccines at once when they are informed that kids can't go to public school, where it would be a risk to other kids. Just imagine, taking those vaccines 2-3 per doctor visit or take them all in 2-3 visits... must be nightmare to have parent like that...

And then those calls to 'inform yourself', while ignoring that we eradicated most of child killing diseases, and most likely not thanks to ignorant parents like OP.

But this story has dark turn, because people like this are responsible that in some parts of the world people don't believe not only in vaccination, but also to other medical prevention or for example simple filtration of water?! This is where this story turns into nightmare and costs human life.

www.nytimes.com...

www.bbc.com...

So yeah, inform your self... as acting this irrationally you might cost someone else life, or thanks to your misinformation, children might die from what is preventable disease...

And stay away form public places and school if you like to keep your kids not vaccinated...



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: ComplexCassandra

There's no way to know without an MRI done at the time of inflammation. All I know is that I had 6 months to get to know this little guy and the only time he screamed like that was when he got stung by a wasp. And even with the wasp sting he settled down after a while- he didn't continue screaming for 4 hours.

Here's the thing: IF it had been an adverse reaction to the vaccine (which I'm not even saying it was) then a subsequent shot of the same vaccine could have done irreparable damage. Doctors are so cowed by pharma that they blow off possible adverse reactions as normal 'fussiness' and WILL NOT admit to parents that damages can be caused by vaccines.

I'm advocating a middle ground. Where doctors are more honest, parents are more informed and steps are taken to reduce the number of casualties caused by vaccines. Not just death casualties- but brain damage as well.

It's like they think that no one will ever vaccinate their kids if they (pharma/docs) admit to the risks involved. I know the risks and I still do it, I'm just more careful about it. I don't automatically take the CDC schedule as gospel.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: Raxusillian

I tried to do that with my daughter (my first) and the pediatrician railroaded me into doing all the recommended cocktails from birth on. Thank God nothing bad happened.

My son is my second, I have much less respect for the medical profession at this point, and I am assertive and steadfast with my stance. In a perfect world, doctors would be in favor of delayed schedules and careful monitoring for side effects. But they've got the "you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs" mentality. Just go full force and accept the small percentage of casualties. But those casualties (death and brain damage) are people's children and every one of those statistics is devastating to the people involved. I feel more can be done to reduce those already small numbers....but that would involve diligence and compassion and frankly they just don't have time for all that.





posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 10:47 AM
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Of note:

Measles - one in 5,000 children contracting wild measles will develop acute Encephalitis: 3 out of 20 of those children who develop Encephalitis will die from it and 20-40% of those who develop Encephalitis will be left with permanent after-effects. Less than one in a million children who had vaccination will develop Encephalitis from the vaccination which is less than the incidence of all types of Encephalitis.

Source

A child is 2000 times more likely to contract encephalitis from measles (because he/she isn't vaccinated) than from the vaccine itself.

Seems like a great risk not to get vaccinated. Why play with a child's life like this?

Harte



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Most forms of encephalitis usually last for at least a week, with all its symptoms, not hours. Severe encephalitis may last for weeks and may take months to recover.

Of course not all doctors and nurses are nice people, but if your child had been screaming and crying for more than 4 hours they would have probably told you to go to a hospital. I have children and I know how frightening it is when your kids are not well and you don't know what to do or what's going on, but from a medical standpoint some symptoms are just mild or normal, hence they don't seem to make a big fuss about it. What may look like a really adverse reaction to a parent, it's just a normal side effect for a medical professional.

I'm glad he recovered so quickly and he was fine!



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: Harte

From your own source:



There is no way of predicting who will have an adverse reaction to a vaccination. The individual’s susceptibility may be determined by their genetic background and previous immunological history. A checklist for contraindications is included in Guidance from the Department of Health.


So, if you don't vaccinate there's x amount of risk of your child contracting the disease. If they contract it there is y risk of adverse side effects. If you do vaccinate there's z amount of risk associated with the vaccinations. "Previous immunological history" as mentioned in above quote becomes moot when doctors discount adverse effects altogether and write off dangerous symptoms as 'normal fussiness'.

Same thing with the safety stats of vaccines. For every adverse reaction recorded....how many more go undetected or not linked to the vaccine?

Parenting is a craps shoot. You just have to go on an individual basis and weigh your options carefully. "Every child should get all their vaccinations." is just as dangerous as "No children should ever get their vaccinations."



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

When our son was born, my wife and I discussed it at length and at the end of the day, we felt that the risk vs reward leaned toward going forward with the vaccinations. That being said, I can appreciate your views on the matter.

However, since our son (not quiet 4 yet) still hasn't completed the full regiment, I tend to agree with the school in the scenario you presented. I would not feel comfortable if an unvaccinated child was in our son's school since, again, he still has a few more to go.

On the insanity of schools and vaccines....
The thing that drives me completely insane is the whole illegal immigration thing. Remember last September, all across the country there were "mystery" illnesses popping up in elementary schools? Sadly, some of the infected became paralyzed and a few passed away. Of course, this had NOTHING to do with the tidal-wave of "unaccompanied" (and unscreened) minors shoved into schools all over the country. So, you need to have your child vaccinated.... unless he shouldn't be here in the first place. (Sorry if that was too off topic).



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: Harte

From your own source:



There is no way of predicting who will have an adverse reaction to a vaccination. The individual’s susceptibility may be determined by their genetic background and previous immunological history. A checklist for contraindications is included in Guidance from the Department of Health.


So, if you don't vaccinate there's x amount of risk of your child contracting the disease. If they contract it there is y risk of adverse side effects. If you do vaccinate there's z amount of risk associated with the vaccinations. "Previous immunological history" as mentioned in above quote becomes moot when doctors discount adverse effects altogether and write off dangerous symptoms as 'normal fussiness'.

There are methods to diagnostics. I'm sure you are aware of this.
If fussiness is the only symptom, then every child is encephalitic.

Did your child have a seizure? This site indicates that even this is unlikely to be a reaction to the vaccine itself, but rather to a slight fever caused by the vaccine. This means that any slight fever would do the same thing - vaccine or no vaccine.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
Parenting is a craps shoot. You just have to go on an individual basis and weigh your options carefully. "Every child should get all their vaccinations." is just as dangerous as "No children should ever get their vaccinations."

The crap shoot analogy is particularly apt here, given that to win in a game of craps you have to play the odds.

Now, since unvaccinated children are 2000 times more likely to contract encephalitis than those who have been vaccinated (and this is only counting encephalitis from measles - other childhood diseases can also develop into encephalitis,) I'd say you should stay out of that craps game if you must insist on sticking with a losing strategy.

Harte
edit on 7/28/2015 by Harte because: of the wonderful things he does!



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: Agartha

I'm not even going to say it was encephalitis. I do know that whatever it was, was NOT normal for him. And I had 6 months to get to know what was normal for him. When you start pumping babies full of vaccines from birth- especially if it's a first child- even the parents don't know what's normal.

Next week we're going for just the DT...not the DTaP that didn't go so well. I really want him to be vaccinated against Tetanus. Hell, even my horse and goats are vaccinated and I gave them the shots myself! Needless to say, I will be monitoring very closely.

Here's a snip from the Prevnar vaccine warnings, which are typical for any vaccine:



Your child should not receive a booster vaccine if he or she had a life-threatening allergic reaction after the first shot.

Keep track of any and all side effects your child has after receiving this vaccine. When the child receives a booster dose, you will need to tell the doctor if the previous shot caused any side effects.

Get emergency medical help if your child has any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of the face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Call your doctor at once if you or your child has a serious side effect such as:

high fever (103 degrees or higher);
seizure (convulsions);
wheezing, trouble breathing;
severe stomach pain, severe vomiting or diarrhea;
easy bruising or bleeding; or
severe pain, itching, irritation, or skin changes where the shot was given.
Less serious side effects include

crying, fussiness;
headache, tired feeling;
muscle or joint pain;
drowsiness, sleeping more or less than usual;
mild redness, swelling, tenderness, or a hard lump where the shot was given;
loss of appetite, mild vomiting or diarrhea;
low fever (102 degrees or less), chills; or
mild skin rash.
This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur.


Here's my concern: your baby has one of these reactions, you tell your pediatrician, they dismiss it as normal 'fussiness' when in fact it was the indication of an adverse effect, you take them at their word, a couple of months later you get the booster as recommended ....and your child ends up having a much more serious reaction. It could have been avoided if your doc was more up front about things. I've been to 3 pediatricians over the years and they WILL NOT even admit that adverse reactions are a thing. They all claim that they've never seen a child have an adverse reaction, and I'm sorry but that's just not possible.

"I'm glad he recovered so quickly and he was fine!" Thank you for this. So far, so good. But he's the type of kid leashes were invented for, so vaccines are the least of my worries!



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: Harte

You're basing your evaluation on numbers....and assuming that those numbers are correct and complete. Do you honestly think that not one case of SIDS was actually caused by a vaccine? Or that a deadly peanut allergy was developed due to a vaccine (as in the OP)? Do you honestly think that there hasn't been a few cases where a kid suddenly developed seizures or encephalitis and it wasn't attributed to a vaccine, when in reality there WAS a connection?

MMR, Polio....hell yeah, stick my kids. DTaP I don't trust now- just for Jackson- so he'll be getting DT from here on out. Hepatitis? Are you kidding me? My kids aren't sharing dirty needles or having unprotected sex, so the risk is greater than the benefits on that one. Flu shot? Dumb. Every time I've ever gotten a flu shot I ended up getting the flu anyway so that one seems pointless to me. ...then again, I'm in the country. If I lived in NY I would be more receptive to something like a flu shot.

The government shouldn't FORCE the CDC schedule on anyone. It should be up to the parents- with honest input from doctors- to decide which vaccinations should be given to their individual children. Within the same family one child may tolerate them fine, while another may be more sensitive.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Of course serious reactions to vaccines happen, but they really are sparse, really one in a million. When your child has his next dose just remind the doctor again about him feeling poorly for 4 hours and maybe give him some paracetamol beforehand. I know of children who developed really high temperature after vaccination, some ended up with seizures due to the temperature, and even though for a parent it is a horrific scenario, from a medical standpoint is something not severe as the temperature goes down and the seizures never leave any permanent neurological damage.

LOL at your son's needing a leash, I have two sons myself so I know exactly what you are talking about!! But that is a sign of health which is all we wish for (us, mums).



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: Agartha

I'm not even going to say it was encephalitis. I do know that whatever it was, was NOT normal for him. And I had 6 months to get to know what was normal for him. When you start pumping babies full of vaccines from birth- especially if it's a first child- even the parents don't know what's normal.

Next week we're going for just the DT...not the DTaP that didn't go so well. I really want him to be vaccinated against Tetanus. Hell, even my horse and goats are vaccinated and I gave them the shots myself! Needless to say, I will be monitoring very closely.

Here's a snip from the Prevnar vaccine warnings, which are typical for any vaccine:



Your child should not receive a booster vaccine if he or she had a life-threatening allergic reaction after the first shot.

Keep track of any and all side effects your child has after receiving this vaccine. When the child receives a booster dose, you will need to tell the doctor if the previous shot caused any side effects.

Get emergency medical help if your child has any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of the face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Call your doctor at once if you or your child has a serious side effect such as:

high fever (103 degrees or higher);
seizure (convulsions);
wheezing, trouble breathing;
severe stomach pain, severe vomiting or diarrhea;
easy bruising or bleeding; or
severe pain, itching, irritation, or skin changes where the shot was given.
Less serious side effects include

crying, fussiness;
headache, tired feeling;
muscle or joint pain;
drowsiness, sleeping more or less than usual;
mild redness, swelling, tenderness, or a hard lump where the shot was given;
loss of appetite, mild vomiting or diarrhea;
low fever (102 degrees or less), chills; or
mild skin rash.
This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur.


Here's my concern: your baby has one of these reactions, you tell your pediatrician, they dismiss it as normal 'fussiness' when in fact it was the indication of an adverse effect, you take them at their word, a couple of months later you get the booster as recommended ....and your child ends up having a much more serious reaction. It could have been avoided if your doc was more up front about things.

Your quote indicates that fussiness is a lesser symptom and would not rise to the level of needing to see your doctor.

Is there any evidence of children becoming fussy after their first vaccine later developing more serious side effects?

Remember - 2,000 times more likely...

Harte



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: thebtheb

yes they stopped the mmr vaccine entirely in japan for a period of years and do you know what happend? autisim rates went through the roof

www.medicine.ox.ac.uk...


A link has been postulated between the specific use of the triple MMR vaccine and the rise of childhood autism. Though very considerable research has shown there to be no connection, some people continue to believe in such a link and they propose use of single vaccines instead. In Japan, MMR vaccine was introduced in 1989, but the programme was terminated in 1993 and only single vaccines used thereafter. The experience of Japan therefore constitutes a real-world experiment of replacing triple MMR vaccine with single vaccines because of problems with production. If the proponents of a link between MMR and autism are correct, the result should be that cases of autism fall after withdrawal of MMR. Study The study was conducted in a part of Yokohama with a population of about 300,000, and which was stable, or reflected changes typical for Japanese society as a whole, over the period of the study. The population was served by a special centre (Yokohama Rehabilitation Centre) that included a developmental psychiatry unit with early intervention services for developmental disorders. There was in place an early detection and intervention system that included specific routine checkups at four, 18 and 36 months, working to defined diagnostic criteria. At 18 months, about 90% of children participated in the programme, but those who did not, or those who were missed by the programme, could be referred by nurseries, paediatric clinics, or other services. These services began in 1987, two years before introduction of MMR. Not only did the study have specific diagnostic criteria, therefore, but also ensured a complete coverage of a defined population, consistently over a period covering the introduction and withdrawal of the triple MMR vaccine. Each birth cohort from 1988 to 1996 was followed up to age seven years, and results presented for all autistic spectrum disorders, for autism, and for autism associated with regression. The cumulative incidence per 10,000 children for each diagnosis was calculated for each year.
one of the largest studies of its kind and the only one as far as i know where an entire type of vaccine was removed from a nation . and the results?


The incidence of all autistic spectrum disorders, and of autism, continued to rise after MMR vaccine was discontinued. The incidence of autism was higher in children born after 1992 who were not vaccinated with MMR than in children born before 1992 who were vaccinated. The incidence of autism associated with regression was the same during the use of MMR and after it was discontinued. The increase of autistic spectrum disorders was evident in children with higher IQ. Comment The increase in autism and autistic spectrum disorders in this part of Yokohama displays the same increase over time seen in other parts of the world. Here, though, the increase occurred even when the MMR vaccine was withdrawn. This destroys any possible causative link between use of the vaccine and autism. Perhaps the most important features of the study were that it comprehensively covered a population, and that the population was served by a special service testing children for developmental; disorders and using standard methods over the whole period. The quality and validity of the study is superlative, and the size good. Whatever causes autism, it is not the MMR vaccine.
so hopefully this can put the mmr =autism debate to rest
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


and as some one else asked for evidence of Wakefield's study being flawed and not reputable

www.newsweek.com... they took his medical license for it that is how bad he screwed it up ,ethics violations would not reveal who was funding his study . his study had 12 children there are dozens of studies refuting his that used thousands of children or more like the japanese one above. it is also alleged that he was planning on introducing his own non tripple shot mmr vaccien as he patented it before the study was released (this was not proven in a court of law) so it seems he was shady with the process of the paper and how it was implemented which seems to be exactly what the anti vax movement accuses big pharma of

www.cnn.com...

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...

briandeer.com...



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: ComplexCassandra

There's no way to know without an MRI done at the time of inflammation. All I know is that I had 6 months to get to know this little guy and the only time he screamed like that was when he got stung by a wasp. And even with the wasp sting he settled down after a while- he didn't continue screaming for 4 hours.

Here's the thing: IF it had been an adverse reaction to the vaccine (which I'm not even saying it was) then a subsequent shot of the same vaccine could have done irreparable damage. Doctors are so cowed by pharma that they blow off possible adverse reactions as normal 'fussiness' and WILL NOT admit to parents that damages can be caused by vaccines.


Where do you live? Time to change doctor??

Our family doctor actually delivered our oldest one (10 year old) and our second one is 6, but was delivered by different doctor. From what I remember, actually doctor was one who recommended to move some vaccine dates or suggested to take one on separate visit. Every time we would get any vaccination, including flu vaccine we would get printed paper with explanation what is in vaccine and what are the risks.

Also, doctor would suggest to take pain relief medication before vaccine that is known to cause discomfort and to we would get note to use cold covers or spray the leg for kid to help them.

So from my experience, it seems that you better spend time looking for real doctor, rather then look into something that is proven to help.

Sure, kids now receive more vaccines, but they are also thanks to transportation and life style more exposed then ever. World has become one big village and by latest outbreaks of Ebola you can see that spread of disease now takes days where it used to take months/years.

Another thing to consider is change of climate as well out ability to destroy any habitat, and that might hold a key in allergies and asthma increase in population, as well population itself is increasing at dramatic rate.
edit on 28-7-2015 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: Harte

He wasn't 'fussy'....he was screaming bloody murder for several hours straight. A pain cry. I'm his mother, I can tell the difference between cries. I can be in another room and he can start crying and I can tell if he's fallen off something or if someone has taken something away from him. I'm telling you there was something wrong. And for it to be dismissed as 'fussiness' makes me question the medical establishment more than trust it.

If you'll read my posts you'll see I'm pro-vax, so I really don't understand why you insist on arguing with me.

And yes, if your child has an adverse reaction to a vaccine and you give them the booster anyway the next reaction is likely to be worse than the first one. The vaccine companies, the CDC, doctors, everyone recommends NOT giving a particular vaccine again if your child had a reaction to it.

And in addition to vaccines I've taken multiple steps (since I became pregnant even) to ensure my children's health. So that even if they catch a disease their immune systems will be able to beat it. This- like every other issue- is not black and white, there are many many contributing factors involved. To blanketly choose one side or other is foolish.




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