Father's Rights - A Neglected Movement

a reply to: dawnstar

this thread is about a father's rights. you are not staying on topic.
feel free to begin a mother's rights thread and we can continue this discussion.

a reply to: subfab
and the last part of the last post was bringing back on topic...
so, if the time women take off work to care for sick kids and such is given as a justification as to why women are earning less than men, would it not make sense that if more fathers were given custody of the kids, their earnings would be effected in like manner?
and, well, while the mom's wages were kept low enough that she might be eligible for child care while she is working, the father's wages are probably high enough that he wouldn't be eligible for this help....as his obligations to those kids are interferring and compromising his employment and ability to earn those wages, his expenses will be rising to accomodate the need for child care. I've known single fathers!!! made danged good money, but well child care is danged outrageous! one father's kids was babysat by a kind hearted neighbor for a really cheap price because of this. if she hadn't, he wouldn't have been able to afford a roof over their heads!
when the judge sits on that bench, he has to take all this into consideration. he has to find a way to maximized the amount of money that can be earned to support a family that very well could have been just scrapping by supporting one household but now has to support two. and quite frankly, giving the children to the one that has the highest earning potential does not do this!
I think that this is a shame because I think that many kids would be better off if they were with dad but well, until things are equalized on the economic front, I don't think it's gonna change much.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ghostrager

Another frightening statistic: nearly 37% of child maltreatment is perpetrated by the mother acting alone. Nearly 19% is perpetrated by the father acting alone.

Your stats are somewhat skewed.

What do these statistics tell us?

1. Fathers are less involved in their children's care during the marriage.

2. Fathers are less involved in their children's lives after divorce.

3. Mothers gain custody because the vast majority of fathers choose to give them custody.

4. There is no Family Court bias in favor of mothers because very few fathers seek custody during divorce.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

So, my point in regards to skewing statistics, is that, that is a very high maltreatment number for such a low percentage of fathers being partially involved in their children's lives within varying custodial scenarios.

A gender bias argument should not be used by a divorced father unless he has personal experience and can back up that experience with proof. Until the statistics tell us that more than 4 percent of divorced fathers are seeking custody through the Family Court system, there are few men who have such experience and proof of a true "gender bias."

a reply to: InTheLight

another post with a biased citation. your article the person the huffington post is quoting is cathy meyer she is a person who works with divorcedmoms.com.

from cathy's website cathywmeyer.com... :
" Divorced Moms is the leading online community for divorced moms to connect, communicate, express their passion and thoughts, share experiences and find expert information and advice. "

again, this thread is about father's rights. please start a new thread if you want to discuss women's issues.

because we all know that there is absolutely no connection whatsoever between the two....
right!!!!

15 years ago I owed $39,000 for child support. Now I owe 0.00 because I paid it off. Those sons of guns have gotten so much power given to them by congress all because it is a great vote getter! Not because it is good for America. The agenda isn't only to get money owed, it is to castrate all the males they can by going after every single financial loophole so you will never get ahead as long as you owe. They take it all from bank accounts, workers comp even, and forget getting a tax refund for the next century. My son of whom I never minded paying support for turned 30 years old while still getting child support. That is how ridiculous it is.

Everyone who is bothered by the a-holes of your state should all move to Tennessee and then laugh at them. I laugh hard whenever anyone tells me that the dude who owes them x a month just took off and moved to Tennessee to escape paying all state owed CS. I tell them no one deserves to be treated that bad and run right into the ground all because of child support. Sure it is a responsibility, but that doesn't frigging mean you should be totally ruined financially!

I harassed the crud out of child support people until they did what I want, which was be fair about it and don't make me come and give them free plastic surgery as well, since that is expensive to just give away like that.. ha-ha they couldn't retaliate like they wanted to because of how I worded everything.

These people do not care if they take all your rent for the month, they don't care if you lose your business, or your job after you get fired because the boss is sick of dealing with an employee issue like child care calling and telling you 100things you have to do or else. I'm glad I paid it off so maybe I can open a business again after 30 years when I catch up again.

Don't pay them, move to Tennessee. Boy-cot all state child support agencies, the blood sucking bastards are much worse then owing money. and a true danger to democracy and freedom.

originally posted by: ghostrager
What is a father in today's society? According to television shows, commercials and movies; he's a fat, lazy, stupid, and extremely selfish individual.

While many will write that off as entertainment and marketing, it is an erroneous social consensus on what fathers are. Too many people today dismiss the role of Fathers and their importance with their children. They ignore all the wisdom and guidance of what fathers have to offer, in exchange for complicity and obedience in the child.

Quick facts on children raised in fatherless homes:

-63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.
-90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.
-85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)
-80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)
-71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)
*1

Now that there is an established effect on children without fathers, let's look at fathers. Let's look at them as individual people, but with repressed rights:

1. Fathers with visitation rights pay 79.1% of child support. (Source: U.S. Census Bureau)

2. 44.5% of fathers with no visitation rights still financially support their children. (Source: U.S. Census Bureau)

3. 66% of all child support not paid by non-custodial fathers is due to inability to pay. (Source: U.S. General Accounting Office Report)

4. 66% of single mothers work less than full time while only 10% of single fathers fall into this category. (Source: Garansky and Meyer, DHHS Technical Analysis Paper No. 42)

5. Almost 47% of non-custodial mothers default on child support compared with the 27% of fathers who default. (Source: Garansky and Meyer, DHHS Technical Analysis Paper No. 42) *2

Other noteworthy facts;

-Around 85% of women will receive primary custody of their children.
-Over 75% of men (of divorces with children) will have to pay child support.
-Women initiate nearly 70% of all divorces.
-Divorced and separated men are nearly 2.4 times more likely to kill themselves.


The best question; since a child is the offspring of a male and female(50/50), why is it acceptable by society, and overwhelmingly enforced by courts, that the mother rears the child primarily and the father secondary? Further, why is the man responsible for 18 years of financial support when he has no say on the birth of the child? I'm prolife, but if I was pro-choice I'd be infuriated that I'm enforced to pay finacially for a mutual act when I had no choice in the matter.

When will fathers have equal rights to their children? When will children have equal rights to their parents?

In this age of equality, where is the support for fathers?



Ghost





*1 fatherless generation
*2other stats

Very well written and cited. I can't check sources tonight, but will tomorrow.

If the sources hold up, after reading, I may be inclined to say this is one of the most well written (and cited) OP topics I have seen on ATS in a while.

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: InTheLight

another post with a biased citation. your article the person the huffington post is quoting is cathy meyer she is a person who works with divorcedmoms.com.

from cathy's website cathywmeyer.com... :
" Divorced Moms is the leading online community for divorced moms to connect, communicate, express their passion and thoughts, share experiences and find expert information and advice. "

again, this thread is about father's rights. please start a new thread if you want to discuss women's issues.

You need to re-read the article, the stats and facts are from:

Below are a few stats from a Pew Research Center analysis of the National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG) released in June of 2011.

It's not about women's rights, it's about the truth.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ghostrager

Another frightening statistic: nearly 37% of child maltreatment is perpetrated by the mother acting alone. Nearly 19% is perpetrated by the father acting alone.

Your stats are somewhat skewed.

What do these statistics tell us?

1. Fathers are less involved in their children's care during the marriage.

2. Fathers are less involved in their children's lives after divorce.

3. Mothers gain custody because the vast majority of fathers choose to give them custody.

4. There is no Family Court bias in favor of mothers because very few fathers seek custody during divorce.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

So, my point in regards to skewing statistics, is that, that is a very high maltreatment number for such a low percentage of fathers being partially involved in their children's lives within varying custodial scenarios.

A gender bias argument should not be used by a divorced father unless he has personal experience and can back up that experience with proof. Until the statistics tell us that more than 4 percent of divorced fathers are seeking custody through the Family Court system, there are few men who have such experience and proof of a true "gender bias."

Ok, so even if only 4% of "divorced fathers" are seeking custody, its still biased. I happen to fall into that 4% category. Even though I had my own house, car, job, and was very involved in my kids lives and always have been. They still gave custody to the mother, which lived with her mom and had no job. Any explanations? I'm seriously asking because after lawyer fees, missing work for court over and over I still have to pay child support, alimony, etc. etc. It's just a bunch of crap. You can believe all you want that fathers have a fair chance in court, but in reality it's not even close to fair.

Unless you prove the mother is a crack addict you can never win child custody in this "everyone is equal" world.

Feminists wont touch this subject cause its a plus for them.

a reply to: amicktd

What explanation were you given by the judicial system, which are suppose to act in the best interest of the child? And nowhere did I say that I don't believe that gender bias does not exist within the court system, because it exists everywhere for both genders. I was just posting statistics that may give us more insight about those maltreatment stats that just didn't take into account many factors.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I would like to know the percentage of those people with mental illness and or other disorders as another explanation. It seems ridiculous to believe that only one factor can cause those high numbers. I am leaning more towards the extreme stress and perhaps the animosity that parents allow the children to witness during divorce and custody battles. Where are these children getting help?

www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: amicktd

father's rights and men's issues in general go beyond the family law court room.
there is male genital mutilation (male circumcision)
there is a lack of resources available to men who are victims of domestic violence.
there is a lack of resources available to men who are raped
there is a lack of resources available to male children who are raped

there is a lot of work to get these issues and other issues too, up in open main stream dialogue.

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: amicktd

father's rights and men's issues in general go beyond the family law court room.
there is male genital mutilation (male circumcision)
there is a lack of resources available to men who are victims of domestic violence.
there is a lack of resources available to men who are raped
there is a lack of resources available to male children who are raped

there is a lot of work to get these issues and other issues too, up in open main stream dialogue.

Exactly, I only mentioned the custody issues because it directly affected me.

I am glad I was able to get custody of my son during my divorce, however I was not to thrilled with the ruling.

She has a Bachelors degree.
I have none.

She was able to go to College because I paid for it while she stayed home and "went to school" cause you know we were not going to be able to survive without one of us getting a degree in something. She takes out a bunch of student loans to "speed up the process" so she could take more classes a semester.
About a month after her getting said degree she wants a divorce...
I was working as a Janitor during the week and bouncing at a local bar on the weekends. to pay for her school our house, bills etc. and to support our child.

What happens after the divorce?

She gets a job paying way more than I ever did working 7 days a week.
She gets half the house
I get the full mortgage
I get to pay for any special treatments our son needs. (Apparently she is "supposed" to pay however no one seems interested in forcing the issue. He has autism, so he has had to see therapist etc)
She gets the full college degree
I get half of the student loan bills
She gets all the crap she bought
I get all the credit card debt she ran up
How much does she pay in child support?
$120 a month.
She pays this $120 a month apparently when she feels like it, cause I get a check about once every 3-6 months.
Again does the state do anything about it?
Nope.
The only thing I am grateful about as it concerns the monetary aspect this settlement is that the court was "kind enough" to let me claim my son on my taxes. LOL
This folks is whats considered, "equitable"

a reply to: Punisher75

damn man i know feeling.
family court leaves a father with little hope and no voice. divorce is terrible for the father and the children. i advise any young man to not get married. if they have sex that they have to protect their seed. having children and getting married is just not worth it for a man in the united states. i don't know what it's like in other countries.

i should point out there are exceptions. on a rare occasion a mom gets the raw end of the deal. and there are some women who are fair to their ex and work hard to make the split as civil (and fair) as possible. i have a lot of respect for these women.