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Why is the Sun Setting North of Due West? - I Am Above The Tropic of Cancer

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posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 06:19 AM
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Planet X's magnetism is interacting with our own planet's and thIs is what is actually causing a daily wobble I have also noted this at times, as well as many others.

The Inuits have also noted a shift in the Earth's axis this was discussed on ATS as well.

www.naturalnews.com...



This was also noted in this excerpt below.



In the July 15, 1999 paper published by the journal, Geophysical Research Letters, the Sahara desert's arid climate change occurred quickly and dramatically 4000 to 3600 years ago. A team of researchers headed by Martin Cluassen of Germany's Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact research analyzed computer models of climate over the past several thousand years.

They concluded that the change to today's desert climate in the Sahara was triggered by changes in the Earth's orbit and the tilt of Earth's axis. The switch in North Africa's climate and vegetation was abrupt. In the Sahara, "we find an abrupt decrease in vegetation from a green Sahara to a desert scrubland within a few hundred years" scientists reported.

No longer were grasses and other plants collecting water and releasing it back into the atmosphere; now sand baked in the stronger sun and rivers dried up. The scientists do not say what caused the change in the tilt of Earth's axis.



Wait 3600 years ago! isn't that when Planet X last passed? And now Our Planet is doing the same now? Um..um..


poleshift.ning.com...








edit on 25-7-2015 by EndOfDays77 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-7-2015 by EndOfDays77 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-7-2015 by EndOfDays77 because: Photo upload issue 😒




posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 06:29 AM
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originally posted by: cheesyleps

originally posted by: Vasteel
a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Hopefully one of the "navigators" on here can clear up how "off" something would need to be in order to be unavoidably noticable.

I personally would not notice the Sun setting a degree or two off where it should be, or a map being slightly out. If the Sun rose in West for example though it would be global news - the Earth would pretty much have had to start spinning the other way or done a 180 flip on its axis lol.


When measuring the altitude of a celestial body, the sextant will generally work to an accuracy level of 0.1 minutes of arc (equivalent to 0.1 nautical miles). 0.1 minute of arc is measuring a single degree to a 1/600th part.

When using a meridional passage this is a direct one to one relationship. Ie a measurement that is 0.5 minutes of arc out from true would give a position that is 0.5 miles wrong in latitude.

If you move the sun away from the meridian then it is harder to give an easy answer as it varies but the formula used would be:

Tan Azimuth = Sin Local Hour Angle / (Sin Lat x Cos LHA) - (cos Lat x Tan Declination)

Clearly any change in the azimuth of the body would result in an inherently inaccurate computation. Again, for practical relevance and computational ease we typically measure and calculate azimuth to within 0.1 degree.

A major part of a deck officers job is to verify the accuracy of his compasses every 4 hours. Once out of sight of land this can only be done with celestial bodies. Generally this means observing the bearing (azimuth) of the sun around 4 times a day. Calculating where it SHOULD be and comparing that against the observed value. Half a degree is very noticeable. 1 degree would leave me concerned. 2 degrees or more would have me calling a technician to service my gyro compass at the next port.

There are tens of thousands of commercial vessels following this procedure every day.

www.marinetraffic.com...:53/centery:-77/zoom:2

That website will give you a sense of the scale of the industry though bear in mind the technology behind it requires a land based receiver with a limited range. Ships currently in deep sea areas will not be represented.


Thanks!

So...unless someone can refute the above, I think we're done? In the sense that the Sun is where it should be and people would DEFINITELY be up in arms if it wasnt?

I see we've bought Planet X into this *sigh* do we really need to go over all the reasons why it cannot possibly exist in the orbit usually proposed? Or how billions of people would see it every day if it existed in the locations usually given? Or how it's definitely coming in 2003...no wait 2008....no I mean 2012....etc....etc.
edit on 25-7-2015 by Vasteel because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: EndOfDays77


The scientists do not say what caused the change in the tilt of Earth's axis.

How much did it change?

ETA:

The transition to today's arid climate was not gradual, but occurred in two specific episodes. The first, which was less severe, occurred between 6,700 and 5,500 years ago. The second, which was brutal, lasted from 4,000 to 3,600 years ago.

...The change from the mid-Holocene climate to that of today was initiated by changes in the Earth's orbit and the tilt of Earth's axis. Some 9,000 years ago, Earth's tilt was 24.14 degrees, as compared with the current 23.45 degrees, and perihelion, the point in the Earth's orbit that is closest to the Sun, occurred at the end of July, as compared with early January now.

...The changes in Earth's orbit occurred gradually, however, whereas the evolution of North Africa's climate and vegetation were abrupt. Claussen and his colleagues believe that various feedback mechanisms within Earth's climate system amplified and modified the effects touched off by the orbital changes.
www.sciencedaily.com...

Not exactly the picture you're trying to paint.

edit on 25-7-2015 by DenyObfuscation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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originally posted by: cheesyleps

Clearly any change in the azimuth of the body would result in an inherently inaccurate computation.


I am not claiming that the position of the sun has changed, although some of the posters are claiming that they have evidence that the sun Is setting farther north, but that's not the point.

Did you set up the experiment with the earth and sun that I described on page 4? You will then see clearly that in the orbiting sphere model the sun should not be observed to set in the north when any observer is above the tropic of cancer. This is why this diagram showing a northwest sunset has to use a heliocentric model to demonstrate the phenomenon:



You can not show that the sun sets in the northwest for an observer above the tropic of cancer with our contemporary astronomical model of orbiting spheres. Do not now jump to conclusions thinking I am making a claim as to what the earth/solar system is like, for now all I am doing is demonstrating that something is amiss in our contemporary model.
edit on 25-7-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-7-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: cooperton


for now all I am doing is demonstrating that something is amiss in our contemporary model.

That something amiss is your comprehension of this fairly simple concept. What do you not get about this?



You are confusing the solar angle with azimuth. The solar angle at peak (tropic of cancer in N. hemisphere 23.5degrees) has NOTHING to do with how high or low the sun sets on the horizon (azimuth).
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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Oops. You're supposed to use tangential east and west on the globe, not follow the latitude circles to determine distant east/west appearances. Found my answer. My sincere apologies.

....BUT....


originally posted by: Sunwolf
I have had to plant trees 12 ft further north to screen the evening sun where I sit on my patio.The sun is setting further and further north in the past 15 years.I am at 36 degrees.


[link snipped]

There are no pictures demonstrating this change, but I doubt many people, if anyone, has been taking a picture of the summer solstice sunset every year for the past couple decades. But, As Cheesyleps said, "navigators would notice a change like this". So, What if another constant they use for navigation is subtly changing along with the sun:

Magnetic North moving towards Siberia
Magnetic North is moving towards Russia
North Pole moving... more "north"

Would the observed "more north" sunset be directly caused/correlated to this proven "northward" shifting magnetic pole?
edit on 25-7-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)

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posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: cooperton

You obvioulsy didn't go to the thread I linked to quite early on in this thread, as it would save you quite a bit of embarrassment.

Although having said that, you've also been told that magnetic north is completely different to true north.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?


edit on 25/7/15 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: cooperton

The position of the sun in the sky is measured either by celestial coordinates (Right Ascension and Declination) or by where it's located in relation ship to the horizon.

It is also measure with angles to either the North pole or South pole.

The actual, physical poles. NOT the magnetic poles.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:11 AM
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originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: cooperton

You obvioulsy didn't go to the thread I linked to quite early on in this thread, as it would save you quite a bit of embarrassment.

Although having said that, you've also been told that magnetic north is completely different to true north.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?



No need to rub salt in the wound .
. I did read all the posts, just not all the links that were provided.


"The position of the sun in the sky is measured either by celestial coordinates (Right Ascension and Declination) or by where it's located in relation ship to the horizon.

It is also measure with angles to either the North pole or South pole.

The actual, physical poles. NOT the magnetic poles.


Good to know. is this the main method of navigation?
edit on 25-7-2015 by cooperton because: saw a prior post after I posted



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: cooperton

I'm afraid not. Gyro compasses have been in existence for over 100 years and in common use on ships since at least the second world war. These aren't measuring to magnetic north but to true north.

Other vessels are also using things like ring laser compasses, fibre optic compasses and gps differential compasses which all also measure to true north, not magnetic. Magnetic compasses are carried as a back up just in case a vessel was to completely lose all electrical power.

Changes in the position of the magnetic north pole are accounted for in a factor known as magnetic variation which is given as a local correction on nautical charts along with the rate of change per year (so a new chart isn't required every year).

I'm sure we don't quite understand the effect that the movement of the north pole will have upon things like climate, but I just can't see how it would have any effect upon position of the sun in the sky. It may change the perceived intensity of the light and or heat or other factors we don't yet know.

Kudos from me for coming back and admitting you had been working under a misunderstanding. Most people seem to have lost the ability to hold their hands up and admit that they were wrong but have now learned something new. Most seem to see it as some sort of failure if they don't 'win' every discussion. Hats off to you cooperton.

edit on 25/7/15 by cheesyleps because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: cheesyleps

Yep, this: Gyroscope Compass.

It's what I used during my 10 years in the US Navy. There is a magnetic compass, but it's not used to normally navigate the ship.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: cheesyleps
a reply to: cooperton

I'm afraid not. Gyro compasses have been in existence for over 100 years and in common use on ships since at least the second world war. These aren't measuring to magnetic north but to true north.

Other vessels are also using things like ring laser compasses, fibre optic compasses and gps differential compasses which all also measure to true north, not magnetic. Magnetic compasses are carried as a back up just in case a vessel was to completely lose all electrical power.

Changes in the position of the magnetic north pole are accounted for in a factor known as magnetic variation which is given as a local correction on nautical charts along with the rate of change per year (so a new chart isn't required every year).

I'm sure we don't quite understand the effect that the movement of the north pole will have upon things like climate, but I just can't see how it would have any effect upon position of the sun in the sky. It may change the perceived intensity of the light and or heat.



The gyrocompass from my brief reading does not use the sun for navigation. Would subtle changes in the sun's annual position effect navigation? I think you may have answered this in a past post but I can't find it.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:18 AM
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Let's end this now.

In 2011 I mentioned an event called Manhattanhenge, this is when the setting sun is perfectly aligned East-West with the streets of Manhattan. It's an event that garners quite a turn out, and the time and date is known well before the event.

Oh and guess what, it happened, as predicted, just 2 weeks ago!



northeastweatherwx.com...

/thread


edit on 25/7/15 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: cooperton

In the US Navy, the Quartermaster still "shoots the stars", meaning they still use a sextant to record the ships position, and this means also "shooting the sun" too.

Ships use several different ways to navigate the oceans, even keeping methods that are almost 200 years old.

I got to do this myself while working on my Surface Warfare qualifications when I was in.

If the sun's position was not correct, they would notice.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: Chadwickus
Let's end this now.

In 2011 I mentioned an event called Manhattanhenge, this is when the setting sun is perfectly aligned East-West with the streets of Manhattan. It's an event that garners quite a turn out, and the time and date is known well before the event.

Oh and guess what, it happened, as predicted, just 2 weeks ago!



northeastweatherwx.com...

/thread






posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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Stars for you, cooperton.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 12:52 PM
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In a couple of months time, people (in the northern hemisphere) will start noticiing that the Sun is setting south of west ......


But next spring they will be noticing it will be rising north of west again!

A simple prediction. Try it and see.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: Chadwickus

One of the best refutations of this annual nonsense



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 02:30 PM
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Given how far mankind has gone in knowledge of the Earth, it's sad to see people given access to a modern education going back to the dark ages.

Some tax payers wasted some money.



posted on Jul, 25 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: cooperton

It wouldn't affect most vessels directly. Technology has moved on and the primary means of navigation is now utilising gps (or the Russian equivalent) and gyro compasses. However, because those have inherent vulnerabilities (power requirements, solar weather, malevolent hacking, course-speed-latitude error etc) a major part of professional navigation is making use of independent backup systems to cross check the electronic information. As an industry we are in a slightly awkward transition stage where we have very competent and effective electronic systems but no viable alternative back up systems.

Because of this we still have to use more traditional techniques. In sight of land we can use a plethora of positioning methods utilising visual and radar ranges/bearings. Once we are out of sight or radar range the only thing we can do (other than reverting to inaccurate dead reckoning techniques) is to utilise celestial objects.

A typical deep sea day would start with a star based fix during twilight (shooting the altitude of 3 or more stars/planets to give a position). The amplitude of the sun will then be measured at sunrise to confirm the accuracy of the gyro compass. A midmorning observation of the sun's altitude will be taken in order to create a running fix up to local noon when the second line of position would give a fix (this also used to be used to set the ship's time though that practice isn't followed any more). A further compass error may be taken around this time too. Another would happen at sunset and another star fix at twilight. During the night it isn't possible to get positions as the horizon isn't distinguishable through a sextant's scope. Further compass checks can be taken though using stars and planets.

What that amounts to is yes, it would certainly affect navigation. If the sun moved at all away from its expected/calculated position then you would have a situation whereby the gyro compass would be indicating a different error during daylight to that experienced at night. A simple cross check during the day using two charted objects in transit would point the finger straight at the problem being the sun. The results of all these compass checks are recorded in a separate log book which is reviewed periodically by the captain to recognise developing error trends and arrange any necessary maintenance.

I think you may have missed the paragraph I appended to my last post.

Personally, I think the sun 'feels' different in the last few years to how it has for the previous 15, but it's position isn't unusual.




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