3.5 Million Homeless - Uncontrolled Capitalism at its Finest

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: greencmp

The United States of America is the oldest government on the planet so this experiment is not over.

Our founders warned us of the dangers of central power and we have been dismissing their remonstrations. We must correct that error.

I think the delusion in all of this is the very idea that any "system" could possibly be successful in solving all (or even some) of humanities problems. It is the absence of a system, the free market, that allows for the best possible outcomes simply by allowing all outcomes.

Indeed, the experiment is not over yet. However I need to point out that among those founders were also men who were in favor of centralized power. Were they called Federalists? I'm not sure. And wasn't this the crux of much of the early debates and power struggles among them? And duels?

And as much as I recognize the dangers of centralized power I also recognize that 'human systems' of power are only that, human systems and hence are products of our own scattered nature. However, I think that relying on 'no system' is not the answer either. Because from the way I see it, the free market is also a human construct and having more faith in that chimera is no more sound that having faith in any other human designed theory. Trusting in that free market might have been the best way to go for a while, but as time moves along and people change and the dynamics of technology and all the rest progress, I think that holding to and defending that system that worked for a while is no longer a valid approach. We have seen how that system morphs and know bloody well that it is now firmly in the hands of the 'big guy'.

Yes, there certainly were federalists, even George Washington himself was one.

At the risk of putting words in your mouth or supplying a potentially spurious paraphrase, it sounds like you are saying that you don't trust freedom.

I don't think that we have a free market so the negative results we are observing are more properly attributed to the apparently inexorable trend toward socialism and economic interventionism in all forms.

I believe that returning to the principals of freedom instead of subjugation is what in necessary to restore justice.

It's not just semantics, the great problem I see is that justice itself appears to be the enemy of those who would gratuitously usurp its name.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Marx wrote that Capitalism would evolve into Socialism (or something like that).

What if he had it backwards?

Or what if he published those ideas backwards on purpose?

Today's world system seems to be evolving towards total capitalism.

All the big governments all have big central banks and the big multi-national corporations are getting bigger.

And many governments (and corporations) are using a lot of the "Ten Planks" ideas.

The Communism and Socialism of the failed Soviet Union and aligned governments along with China are, and have been evolving into Capitalism.

Now what?

Your premise is flawed, that's not evolving into capitalism, that's evolving into fascism.

originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: xuenchen


Your premise is flawed, that's not evolving into capitalism, that's evolving into fascism.

Not by historical facts.

Cuba is a real current example.



Marx set the "unpublished" standards and workbooks.

Lots of people fooled.

The scheming little cretin business man considered how his business cold capitalize on a certain thing.....

....How he and his partners in crime could take advantage of the situation....

It Ain't Capitalism, It be Take-advantage-ism.

OMG!, that was so politically incorrect!.

originally posted by: Bicent76
a reply to: Isurrender73

I think their are to many variables to those statistics to blame capitalism...

Hell there are families crossing the border just to be homeless in America.

It is much easier to find establishments in our society to blame, before we blame ourselves for our positions we get ourselves into..

Thru out my life speaking in my own opinionated view I have learned nothing is for free, and you MUST work for everything and try to find better positions to be in, in life..

Hell man, if I stop moving in my life to blame Society, the government, or Big corperations for my position in life I will become a loser...

That is what I have learned... I do not have time to blame anyone for my position but myself.. 9 times outta 10, it is my fault in the first place..

I think this ideology is a cop out, and a excuse people use, when they are not smart enough, or do not work hard enough to succeed in life, YET you might be right OP...

I agree some. I know a lot of people genuinely are not to blame for negative circumstances in their life. I know people can have diseases and disorders. But what happens when someone who has a disease or disorder continues to make bad decisions? Do we lay the blame on them as we should, or do we let them appeal to our compassion and use us? Do we continue to throw money at them out of a sense of duty and righteousness, or do we withold it and demand they start making better c choices? And if they become homeless and/or are starving, will we be able to continue to withold or will we cave in and once again throw money at them?

How far do we let someone fall before it's too far? How far will we let them exploit us or otherwise make bad choices? Will we ultimately decide bad choices are a mental disorder and won't cast blame? And what happens if we can't afford to throw money at every person whom cannot make good choices? ALL of us end up suffering. It also destroys any sense of accountability, since it's a mental disorder and not a moral fault.

I do believe we'll increasingly blame disorders and not moral failings. It just seems to be the way of things. We blame the brain. For people who've committed wrong, it's also conveniently in their favor.

EDIT: Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe people who strive to be moral are the ones with a mental disorder. This might even have support. I know that richer people show less empathy in some studies. Just the sight of money makes people greedy. Yet successful rich people are what we all want to be, right? And if that means throwing away some of our morals then so be it. We won't worry anymore about being saints because that'll be thought of as psychotic (or neurotic?) and impossible to attain.

Everyone keeps getting confused between capitalism, fascism and communism.

www.theweek.co.uk...

1. Communism is the share of economic welfare between population communities(This is where you look at for possible Dictatorship/Imperialism rise). As long as you have governmental control. It isn't a true communist country.

As far as Cuba.. it wasn't even a pure communist just like China. Communist countries wouldn't even have homeless people because people wouldn't be buying lands, rather it be shared.

2. Capitalism is competition between private ownership of wealth and production. So it is constantly fighting of productivity. (This is where you look at for Corporations/Mafia style control to rise)

This is US specifically. When Italians mobs used to be the biggest gang leader in US.

3. Fascism is governmental authoritarian control of countries welfare and production. Fascism is different from Imperialism because Government is more than 1 person. (This is where you look at for Governmental takeover and control)

Specifically 1984 movie. Governments can lie doesn't mean they are not using the same system. This is also directly opposite of "Democracy."

4. You have Imperialism where a King or Emperor rules all and controls all the wealth over the nation, he/she decides what to do with it. (This was the past)

5. Socialism can never die, the word was create to force people to stop them from socializing or used by anti-socialists. Everyone socializes(talk). So you can get socialism out of the question. Neither of the political systems will work without socializing. Those who say they are anti-socialism is not true at all.

As far as China it is a bit of mixed. You can't call China fascism because the government doesn't own all the productivity and wealth in the nation. Bullying other countries have nothing to do with fascism. It could be dictatorship or the agreement between the people(communism)

Each system doesn't have to be about money, so don't put money into equation. That is the biggest mistake everyone do. It is based on who is in control.

6. Corporatism(kind of like Fascism), unlike Fascism a company or corporation controls everything.