NASA basically announced there's no doubt life exist on other planets Kepler 452-b

I think the op has been spending most his life livin' in a trollster's paradise.

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
I think the op has been spending most his life livin' in a trollster's paradise.

Sounds like a song.

originally posted by: JadeStar
With the distances involved such journeys aren't likely to take place any time soon and certainly not with anything even imagined for the next 100 years of space travel so isn't it better to find out as much as we can about these planets before we're able to even think about reaching them? I mean it's kinda useful to have a map of continents, oceans, and perhaps know if life is there before saying "Warp 6! Engage!".

Most human beings I know couldn't even tell you the names of their next-door neighbors, yet there are a lot of them who would gladly throw their tax money at a project to send a rocket to a far-away star to see some bug creatures. Then after we saw the bug creatures and learned a little about their culture (if any), they could then ignore them like nearly all the other intelligent creatures on Earth. People are a funny lot.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
a reply to: neoholographic

Except it's not the huge news that you want to believe it is. The only real difference between this latest discovery and a number of previous ones is the type of star the planet orbits. Other rocky, Earth-like worlds, with similar orbital periods and mass to Earth have been found within the habitable zones of their stars. You seem to ignore that fact.

^^ THIS

It should also be noted that this discovery (great as it is) is likely to be upstaged in the future as there are even better candidates, some of them around G-stars, some of them even more like the Earth in terms of size, which are still in the process of being confirmed:

KOI-5737.01 FTW!

a reply to: Blue Shift

I would personally welcome our bug creature brothers and sisters with open arms. Of course then the NSA will start spying on me for sympathizing with the enemy after Uncle Sam has declared sanctions against them for their research into quantum energy. But I'm chiefly a peacenik and that's the price I'm willing to endure.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: JadeStar
With the distances involved such journeys aren't likely to take place any time soon and certainly not with anything even imagined for the next 100 years of space travel so isn't it better to find out as much as we can about these planets before we're able to even think about reaching them? I mean it's kinda useful to have a map of continents, oceans, and perhaps know if life is there before saying "Warp 6! Engage!".

Most human beings I know couldn't even tell you the names of their next-door neighbors, yet there are a lot of them who would gladly throw their tax money at a project to send a rocket to a far-away star to see some bug creatures. Then after we saw the bug creatures and learned a little about their culture (if any), they could then ignore them like nearly all the other intelligent creatures on Earth. People are a funny lot.

Ignore them? They should be so lucky.

We can't even leave alone people who are not bug creatures but human beings born with differences other human beings do not accept or understand. Compared to bug creatures from Delta Pavonis all us humans have a lot more in common but we fight endlessly over the stupidest stuff.

Maybe finding bug creatures would give us all a better perspective and help us realize that?

a reply to: JadeStar

The scientific mindset allows for ones theories
to be constantly challenged, examined, peer
reviewed and if necessary discarded
completely multiple times per day. It has
nothing to do with self-interest or wishful
thinking to prop up ones damaged sense
of self.

This is why I love science...its one of
the few truly noble pursuits.

Now some of us chase after fringe
POSSIBILITIES....and it is a hazardous
pursuit..one has to suspend common
sense for long periods of time...
in search of that 1% (or less) chance
and then to resume good sense
later.... very hazardous...

Sometimes it pays off... oftentimes
it does not.

So I'm sympathetic to 'true believers'
who don't use intellectual rigor...
to some degree.... but I recommend
they come in out of the cold
periodically for their own welfare.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: JadeStar

The scientific mindset allows for ones theories
to be constantly challenged, examined, peer
reviewed and if necessary discarded
completely multiple times per day. It has
nothing to do with self-interest or wishful
thinking to prop up ones damaged sense
of self.

This is why I love science...its one of
the few truly noble pursuits.

Now some of us chase after fringe
POSSIBILITIES....and it is a hazardous
pursuit..one has to suspend common
sense for long periods of time...
in search of that 1% (or less) chance
and then to resume good sense
later.... very hazardous...

Sometimes it pays off... oftentimes
it does not.

So I'm sympathetic to 'true believers'
who don't use intellectual rigor...
to some degree.... but I recommend
they come in out of the cold
periodically for their own welfare.

Kev

Yours is a refreshing view, I hope that more on the fringe begin to adopt it. My view is that there's nothing wrong with fringe science as long as it maintains the science part. SETI and Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR/"Cold Fusion") research were once viewed as fringe science. To some well-aged scientific minds, they still are.

originally posted by: JadeStar
Maybe finding bug creatures would give us all a better perspective and help us realize that?

Maybe. For the most part, though, the only perspective of interest to people is the one they see in a mirror.

a reply to: JadeStar

First off. Nobody said is was an exact match. This is why headlines read like this:

Kepler-452b: What It Would Be Like to Live On Earth's 'Cousin'

It doesn't say Earth's twin, it says Earths cousin.

Secondly, your comparisons to Venus lend even more support to what I'm saying. Venus is considered closer to a twin planet to Earth and they started out on very similar paths. The fact is Venus took a hellish turn and couldn't hold it's water on the surface of the planet and earth moved into the habitable zone.

Our planet is on it's way to looking like Venus in a billion years or so.

Again, these are not just very basic parameters of a planet and there's a reason this planet is very different than the ones previously discovered and NASA laid this out in the press conference.

“Today, we’re pleased to announce the discovery of Kepler 452b: the first small planet in the habitable zone of a G type star like our sun,” said Kepler data analyst Jon Jenkins in a NASA teleconference this afternoon. “The Earth is a little less lonely, because there’s a new kid on the block who moved in right next door.”

So this planet could be like Venus and there wouldn't be any surprise because we will look like Venus eventually.

Earth will be in the habitable zone for another 1.75 billion years. That will mean earth stayed in it's habitable zone for 6.25 billion years. So if this planet looks like Venus that would actually lend more support that it's earth's cousin.

This planet is around 6 billion years old. So about 1.5 billion years ago it probably looked more like earth than it does today unless if a species lived on that planet had the technology to extend the life of the planet or move to another planet they discovered that they would terraform.

What this planet tells us in even more stark terms is that life exists outside of earth. This is because the configurations that matter can be in are finite and the constants of nature limit what configurations can occur in our Hubble volume. It goes back to my points about a game of poker or dice.

The fact that we're finding a configuration like earth and earth like planets are "QUIT COMMON" tells you that our universe favors these configurations. It favors forming solar systems, moons, comets and life. There's nothing random about this.

It's random as to what cards you will be dealt in poker but it's not random as to what hand you can be dealt. It's 1 of 2,598,960 configurations that you can get because of the rules set out by the person that created poker. The universe has a finite number of configurations that matter can be in and it favors some configurations like earth like planets over others like Jupiter sized planets.

So the only question is how frequent does life occur because our universe has no choice but to produce stars, moons, solar systems and life based on the constants of nature which give us our laws of physics that govern our Hubble volume.

So is it like a royal flush with 4 number of ways it can occur and a 0.000002 probability of occurring or is it more common like two pairs which have 123,552 ways this hand can occur with a 0.047539 probability of occurring. When you look at the vastness of space these numbers become trivial because whether it's a royal flush or two pairs there will still be a lot of life in the universe. If it's like a royal flush it just says life is more spread out and occurs less frequently. You also have to separate microbial, multicellular and intelligent life. It looks as though it's more common with yesterdays discovery and the fact that the universe favors the configuration of earth size planets.

This is amazing news. But i would like a better souce

originally posted by: neoholographic
What this planet tells us in even more stark terms is that life exists outside of earth.

No, it does not. Not in any way, shape, or form. That is purely you projecting your beliefs onto something, and irrationally claiming that it somehow supports your beliefs. You're as bad as (and perhaps worse) than the religious fundamentalists.

You keep claiming over and over that this new exoplanet discovery somehow constitutes scientific evidence that life exists elsewhere, and the Stephen Hawking and Michio Kaku agree (smh), so why not do as I proposed earlier and put an end to this idiotic 'debate': Email some physicists/professors/astronomers and see if they agree.

If you had done it when I suggested it earlier, you might even have gotten a response by now. What are you afraid of?

a reply to: neoholographic

NASA basically announced there's no doubt life exist on other planets Kepler 452-b

NASA said that?....or you said that?

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: JadeStar
Maybe finding bug creatures would give us all a better perspective and help us realize that?

Maybe. For the most part, though, the only perspective of interest to people is the one they see in a mirror.

Perhaps narcissism is the answer to the Fermi Paradox?

Think about it.

Chemistry becomes Biology,
Biology become Self Aware,
Self Aware becomes Self-Eggrandizing and Self-Absorbed,
The end?

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: JadeStar
Maybe finding bug creatures would give us all a better perspective and help us realize that?

Maybe. For the most part, though, the only perspective of interest to people is the one they see in a mirror.

Perhaps narcissism is the answer to the Fermi Paradox?

Think about it.

Chemistry becomes Biology,
Biology become Self Aware,
Self Aware becomes Self-Eggrandizing,
The end.

Actually it's fair to guess that it's the 'top predator' who
will be at the top of the food chain on any worlds where
darwinian evolution is occurring.

And top predators... are very efficient killing machines
(or they wouldn't be top predators).

Once most of the other life forms are wiped out or at
least totally subjugated, then they would turn on themselves,
quite often I would postulate - wiping themselves out of
existence before they ever get far into space.

Rather like humans are doing right now.. as we are the cause
of the Holocene/Anthropocene 6th great mass extinction.

I'd be ASTONISHED to ever meet a real physical nuts and bolts
craft delivered physical alien on Earth.. it flies in the face of
all possible (admittedly human known) logic, even if I managed
to live a billion years.

And this is just ONE of maybe 50 reasons I could rattle off the top
of my head why that probably won't happen.

Kev

Universe is vast so only the small minded would deny that intelligent life must exist elsewhere in the universe but proof will be lacking until we can work out a way to detect intelligent life over interstellar distances. SETI is searching using radio frequencies but radio frequencies might only be used for a very short time span in an advanced civilizations history. Most civilizations could end up going fibre to minimize radiation and costs so remain totally silent to a SETI search.

Added...Perhaps trying to detect "alien-made" gases in the atmosphere of interstellar planets might do the trick (CFC's etc)

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: buddha
So they look at a star.
and if they see a tiny fliker.
they can tell it has a planet with water air life trees and all kinds of things.
all this and its 1400 light years away!!!!!!

What they do is analyze the light from the parent star as it shines through the atmosphere of the planet (albeit we are just talking about little specs of planets that in most cases cant even be seen -- it's the way they read the sensitive instruments that lets them analyze the light shining through the atmospheres).

They analyze the spectrum from this light to try to determine what elements exist in the atmosphere of a planet. In a few years (some astronomers estimate within the next couple of decades), telescopes and sensing equipment may be sensitive enough to be able to analyze these atmosphere much more precisely.

Most scientists feel that with this equipment they will be able to find signs of life processes of life as we know it. One of those signs of "life as we know it" in an atmosphere would be an abundance of free oxygen. We don't know of any other way that a lot of free oxygen can occur in an atmosphere except being due to life.

So free oxygen probably = life, and today's astrobiologists think that we will find this sign of life on a far-away exoplanet relatively soon.

When you say free oxygen, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean oxygen in the atmosphere?

I googled this:
www.astrobio.net - Oxygen In Exoplanet Atmospheres Could Fool Search For Life...

a reply to: neoholographic

I was going to take the time to deconstruct your post as I have done a few times now...but it occurs to me that you're just dead set in your own beliefs and ideologies - however unfounded they are. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it significant or true. It's obvious you aren't interested in a discussion or a debate, you're interested in just throwing things at people and expecting them to accept it all as fact. You should get a job in media...you'd be great at it.

originally posted by: jonnywhite

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: buddha
So they look at a star.
and if they see a tiny fliker.
they can tell it has a planet with water air life trees and all kinds of things.
all this and its 1400 light years away!!!!!!

What they do is analyze the light from the parent star as it shines through the atmosphere of the planet (albeit we are just talking about little specs of planets that in most cases cant even be seen -- it's the way they read the sensitive instruments that lets them analyze the light shining through the atmospheres).

They analyze the spectrum from this light to try to determine what elements exist in the atmosphere of a planet. In a few years (some astronomers estimate within the next couple of decades), telescopes and sensing equipment may be sensitive enough to be able to analyze these atmosphere much more precisely.

Most scientists feel that with this equipment they will be able to find signs of life processes of life as we know it. One of those signs of "life as we know it" in an atmosphere would be an abundance of free oxygen. We don't know of any other way that a lot of free oxygen can occur in an atmosphere except being due to life.

So free oxygen probably = life, and today's astrobiologists think that we will find this sign of life on a far-away exoplanet relatively soon.

When you say free oxygen, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean oxygen in the atmosphere?

I googled this:
www.astrobio.net - Oxygen In Exoplanet Atmospheres Could Fool Search For Life...

That is correct. Under special circumstances that can happen, particularly with young planets (less than a 2 billion years old) around low mass stars. It is unlikely to happen with a mature planet around a star like our Sun like Kepler-452b.

a reply to: neoholographic

I'm inclined to agree. If you find one planet even remotely similar to earth out there, then immediately the chances of life-sustaining planets existing sky-rockets. Where there's one, there's bound to be others - and in a universe filled with billions if not trillions of planets, you're right. This is like finding a needle in a haystack. If our planet exists, and we just discovered another one very similar to it, then the logical conclusion is that there are very likely more Earth-like planets out there. I mean, we've only searched a few hundred systems and we've already found promising results. That's pretty exciting for people who are fascinated with the question of our own significance. Finding life on other planets only makes life on this planet more special - because it means we're part of a cosmic family, and not just a lonely and isolated accidental apparition.

The question now becomes is that life intelligent? Probably, if we are. Why would we be so special? We're hardly a deserving species, so we weren't imbued with conscious awareness and intelligence for our merit. Which means we're probably just a result of natural processes. If we exist, and we just proved that other 'homes' like ours exist, then it's logical to assume that other beings like us exist.

Whether or not we'll ever find them or make contact is another story. But I have no doubt anymore that they're out there. We ourselves are living proof that it's possible, so why are people so skeptical? What makes Earth and humanity so special in an infinitely large cosmos? It would seem a gigantic waste of space if we're the only beings using it, and nature is nothing if not efficient. I just can't see how nature would only propagate a single planet with intelligent life when it has so much room to work with. It makes more sense to me that nature would be trying to encourage life to evolve everywhere and anywhere, since reality depends upon life in order to be perceived.

Reality depends upon intelligent life in exactly the same way that life depends upon reality. So I don't think this is so far fetched, and discovering this planet has only provided more evidence to the logical theory that the universe is thriving with life - or at least trying to. And if it's trying to, then it will succeed - somewhere, sometime.

How do we know that for certain? Because it happened here. It can and will (and probably already has) happen again. Count on it.

Good job NASA, that's all I have to say. This is (finally) a fresh discovery truly worth being excited over.