Mystery of dead man and his 1,200 guns deepens

originally posted by: Answer
A conservative estimate would be in the neighborhood of $500k.

I hope he has his will in order and someone who knows the values will be handling his estate. It's a damn shame when a guy builds a collection like this and some ignorant family member sells them all for pennies on the dollar.

I hope so, too! Considering all of the weirdness in the case, I'd expect there to be some serious investigation. Then again, with the cancer, and the decomposition, some causes of death that were not from illness could go undetected. At the least, whoever is responsible can read about it, and hopefully get a clue. I wonder, though, if he has any close family left.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Kandinsky

Sounds like he may have been an "affiliate" to a gun-running operation by an alphabet agency. He thought he was really working for them -- but they were just using him like a throw-away account to store/hide the guns.

Not a bad place to hide them actually..affluent neighborhood.

If that was the case, seems unlikely they'd allow the LAPD to collect the guns. Or that they would not know he was dead, on the street, for two weeks.

Something just doesn't add up here.

Perhaps the fiance was his "handler"?

And still no info about the other two people that were with him when he died?

If their story is true, seemed they were awfully convinced by his "crazy" story of being involved with an alphabet agency. So much so that they left his body for them to pick up. Not even a report made to 911.

And she immediately takes a mysterious trip for a week with another woman who is reported missing?

Intriguing story indeed.

Subscribing to the thread because I want to hear how this is all gonna be explained away as ordinary.

a reply to: MsVen

Possible, but again, I think if she was a handler, she'd have, well, handled this better. Then again, alphabet agencies aside, how does a body in a car stay unnoticed that long? I'd love to know where it was parked, so we could perhaps see some possibility of that being feasible.

I want to know myself! Weird all around, which is the sort of story I love. Not that he died, but I can't resist a good mystery.

What the hell do they put in the bottled water out there.

That's what I want to know. So bizarre...

a reply to: Macenroe82

Well, if there is a family, they will have a nice amount of case in value from those guns and ammo.

But I'll bet that some governmental agency will seize the lot.

Any takers?

Thanks LGE!

It's threads like this why I joined ATS. So interesting!

Now back to reading and digging around on the web.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I was thinking similar. A subsidiary/holding company of Fast and Furious.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes
What a crazy amount of firearms and ammo.
His place must have been almost as impressive as mine in fallout3.

Must have been a real chore to have a bath or wash dishes-
Move 500,000 rounds out of the way,then take a bath.
Clear 100 assault rifles out of the kitchen,then wash dishes.

Invite friends round-
hire a forklift to make space for them to sit down.

Who the heck was this guy really?
What an enigma.

Maybe he was a dark web arms dealer or something..

He could of been an owner of a gun shop or goes to guns shows. I like how the cops say we're taking the guns to "secure" them. No crime was committed. Those guns should transfer directly to next of kin.

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse
Maybe he was a dark web arms dealer or something..

If he was an illegal arms dealer, he'd have multiples of the same type of firearm... stuff that's fairly cheap and easy to sell.

He had a very wide variety of high-end guns. High-end equals hard to sell.

Nothing about his collection suggests he was selling guns. Some people have money tied up in stocks or their 401K... some have it tied up in collectibles.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

They probably chose this guy because it would be impossible to connect him to whatever alphabet agency (or rouge group from an alphabet agency) he was working with. A disposable person so to speak.

The guy may have lost his nuts and marbles and began to blow his cover, and he was "suicided". The easiest thing to do would be withdraw all tendrils of influence and fingerprints of association. Just walk away, cut your losses.

EDIT: I don't think his GF would have been in on it, to many loose ends. There are substances that can "cook you alive", so the story of him feeling "hot" and then dying could have been from poisoning. These substances might not be looked for or show up on a regular toxicology screening. Besides, if it was an alphabet agency's doing -- a little gentle pressure on the medical examiner or coroner wouldn't be hard, I'm sure.

I think he is a gun runner for the Mexican cartels, that is why everyone fled and no one wants to explain...

originally posted by: oletimer
What the hell do they put in the bottled water out there.

That's what I want to know. So bizarre...

ROTFL!!!

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Macenroe82

Well, if there is a family, they will have a nice amount of case in value from those guns and ammo.

But I'll bet that some governmental agency will seize the lot.

Any takers?

No way! Think I'll keep my money.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Thanks LGE!

It's threads like this why I joined ATS. So interesting!

Now back to reading and digging around on the web.

You and me, both! I couldn't believe no one else had posted it. Weirder would be hard to find. TY!

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes
What a crazy amount of firearms and ammo.
His place must have been almost as impressive as mine in fallout3.

Must have been a real chore to have a bath or wash dishes-
Move 500,000 rounds out of the way,then take a bath.
Clear 100 assault rifles out of the kitchen,then wash dishes.

Invite friends round-
hire a forklift to make space for them to sit down.

Who the heck was this guy really?
What an enigma.

Maybe he was a dark web arms dealer or something..

If that was the case, surely whoever he'd worked for would have gotten to the guns. Besides, someone else said there is a relative of his on a gun site, and he's just a collector. One article stated the stuff was in the basement, while another claimed cops were tripping over it. Ah, what a basement......makes me think of the couple in the one Tremors....

I am as curious about this fiancee and her friends as I am about him, at this stage. Major strangeness, for certain!

originally posted by: sean
He could of been an owner of a gun shop or goes to guns shows. I like how the cops say we're taking the guns to "secure" them. No crime was committed. Those guns should transfer directly to next of kin.

I was thinking that myself, when the story first broke. Then I considered that the guns could easily have been stolen, so that has to be considered. As long as they return ALL of them, no harm. That's the rub, though; how would anyone ever know?

originally posted by: ATSAlex
I think he is a gun runner for the Mexican cartels, that is why everyone fled and no one wants to explain...

originally posted by: Answer
If he was an illegal arms dealer, he'd have multiples of the same type of firearm... stuff that's fairly cheap and easy to sell.

He had a very wide variety of high-end guns. High-end equals hard to sell.

Nothing about his collection suggests he was selling guns. Some people have money tied up in stocks or their 401K... some have it tied up in collectibles.

I have to agree; this isn't the sort of weaponry a gun runner would carry, and they wouldn't have it piled up in a townhouse, either. I thnk there are more interesting factors here than the guns.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

They probably chose this guy because it would be impossible to connect him to whatever alphabet agency (or rouge group from an alphabet agency) he was working with. A disposable person so to speak.

The guy may have lost his nuts and marbles and began to blow his cover, and he was "suicided". The easiest thing to do would be withdraw all tendrils of influence and fingerprints of association. Just walk away, cut your losses.

EDIT: I don't think his GF would have been in on it, to many loose ends. There are substances that can "cook you alive", so the story of him feeling "hot" and then dying could have been from poisoning. These substances might not be looked for or show up on a regular toxicology screening. Besides, if it was an alphabet agency's doing -- a little gentle pressure on the medical examiner or coroner wouldn't be hard, I'm sure.

It would just about have to be something like that, but the guns, again, don't seem to fit. That many high dollar weapons just aren't the sort an agency would buy in bulk. They'd go for cheaper and efficient.

Guns aside, though, it's possible he was some sort of agent, and silenced for whatever reason. The guns could be used as a distraction, in that case. Everyone focuses on those, the police have to spend a ton of time checking them out, and other little details are missed in the confusion. And, yeah, pressure on some ME would be pretty easy. I htink the guns are just something he happened to have. How to determine the rest is the problem!

No military connections. He's not showing any of the little indications that he was alphabet soup either, either under his birthname or one of the aliases he used.

I think he had a lot of disposable cash and a jones for weapon collecting.

Funny how nobody seems to think this guy was a Russian Sleeper Agent. I mean it's not like the Russians have functional teams working in the US, or anything.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes


So, what say you, ATS? Comments, opinions, implications, predictions for future revelations in the case, whatever! I suspect they will tell us he was a "gun nut" with no ties to government, and that t here will be an effort to sweep the whole thing under the rug.

Funny, you called it exactly. The LAPD is saying that he is nothing more than a loner, and probably one of "them doomsday survivalist types". All things aside though, despite what the LAPD is saying and what his alleged family member is also saying, if this guy really was an agent then I doubt his family would have known about it, and the LAPD would definitely not be privy to that sort of information either.

originally posted by: Bedlam
No military connections. He's not showing any of the little indications that he was alphabet soup either, either under his birthname or one of the aliases he used.

I think he had a lot of disposable cash and a jones for weapon collecting.

I agree regarding the weapons. On the other, what sort of indicators would you look for?

originally posted by: Guyfriday
Funny how nobody seems to think this guy was a Russian Sleeper Agent. I mean it's not like the Russians have functional teams working in the US, or anything.

You know, I hadn't thought of that. If so, though, why would he claim to be with some US agency, instead of just acting like anyone else?

originally posted by: symphonyofblase

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes


So, what say you, ATS? Comments, opinions, implications, predictions for future revelations in the case, whatever! I suspect they will tell us he was a "gun nut" with no ties to government, and that t here will be an effort to sweep the whole thing under the rug.

Funny, you called it exactly. The LAPD is saying that he is nothing more than a loner, and probably one of "them doomsday survivalist types". All things aside though, despite what the LAPD is saying and what his alleged family member is also saying, if this guy really was an agent then I doubt his family would have known about it, and the LAPD would definitely not be privy to that sort of information either.

No, they wouldn't, in either case. Of course, if the feds step in, that would speak volumes.

I still can't get over it taking that long for a body to be discovered, parked in a car on the street, or how the cops claim to not suspect foul play, with all the weirdness involved.

Well, off for the night, but will check back in tomorrow! Meanwhile, have fun discussing, and please, if you see anything new, share! Night, ATSers.

originally posted by: Answer
I'm a member on a firearm-related board where one of the members is related to this man.

He was a normal guy who was big into collecting guns. There is no conspiracy as far as that goes.

Whether he was murdered or not, I have no idea but the story isn't as "fishy" as the media will try to make it sound. 1,200 guns is a lot but there are several private collections with that many and more.

I used to work for a guy whose collection would make some small armies jealous and he was only 33 years old. He inherited a lot of wealth at a young age and had well over 7 figure money tied up in guns and in the 6 figures worth of ammunition.

I'm just curious, how was it confirmed that this board member is indeed a relative?