Originally posted by operatorc All this "our special ops are better than your special ops" is immature nonsense.

Quite so my friend, quite so. But have you heard of the Combined Operations Pilotage Party?

They were indedd, special forces and without them, there would not have been successful invasions of North Africa, Scicaly, Italy, Normandy or the Far East.

I am new to this website and very interested. Does anyone know if Gayle Rivers is still operating or even still alive? I have a relative who was Air Force Special Forces from 1955 to 1970. Got out after two tours in Nam. Three Purple hearts, Bronze Star, Silver Star and Distinguished Flying Cross (or something like that). He was in every trouble spot on the Globe from '55 to '70; was at the Tet Offensive. Could fly about any aircraft they had.

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by D
There were actually SAS at the prison. And it was only a few of them not 100. There were less than 10 of them at the prison.

lol, whatever, I never said there were a hundred of them at the prison. I said there weren't any at all. Please post some links rather than just shooting off at the mouth. Gawdd.

Why are you posting so obnoxiously?

OK, this is three years old now but yes, there were SAS/SBS at the prison. There is even footage of the fight on YouTube.

Originally posted by maestro46

Originally posted by CrazyPolak

- If you're having a hard time trying to figure out who on D-day then you really don't know history. The US outnumbered the Germans by a large margin. Again, since the victorious side is the US who had more men then the Germans (not saying that's why they won) your example seems misplaced.

Wow! The US must have been amazing to do that all by themselves!

I wonder why the British and Canadians didn't do anything?

Probably stupid of me but I kind of thought that the British and Canadians did just as much as the Americans at D-Day.
Oh well, you learn something new every day (when you speak to an American).

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS Actually in The Five FIngers Gayle Rivers is a New Zealand (a Kiwi) Special Forces and the illegal hit was supposed to happen in China. I have had the book for about 20 years now and I re-read it every couple of years because it is so good.

Ah yes. The very elusive Mr Gayle Rivers, originally a WOII with the New Zealand Special Air Service Regiment (NZSASR).

He was allegedly a one time member of 'F' Troop, 'R' Sqn, 22 Special Air Service, based at the HQ of 21 SAS (R [Artists Rifles]), Duke of Yorks Barracks, Chelsea.

I too, have had the book for some 20 odd years but then, I also had his second book, The Specialist which was published a few years later.

The most disturbing thing about Mr Rivers and The Specialist, is his almost uncanny ability to recall certain events in Lebanon, Belgium and Spain [not to mention France] and the so called deniable missions he allegedly undertook for both the US and UK governments.

Not a guy to be messed with, unlike Mitchell Richards, who was a total #!

Originally posted by fritz
Sorry chaps. You is all wrong. The Special Air Service are the best of the best, are second to none - whoever - anywhere in the world. Period!

Useless propaganda!

Ask anybody in America and they will say the Delta Force or SEALS. As people in France and they will say the French special forces and the same with any other country.

"best of the best" is such a vague definition. It might sound cool but in reality its just ridiculous. No man or unit can be the best of the best at everything. It is impossible. No matter how much they train .

You cant even post their "operations" as some kind of record because each situation is different and you cant put two situations next to each other and compare them for the way these forces operate.

At the end of the day any estimation is merely approximate and in no shape or form a definitive analysis.

reply to post by IAF101[/url]

Obviously you never read between the lines, understand Brit humour or sarcasm when you see it.

The SAS are damned fine soldiers and here in the UK, they are still considered to be the best of the best, whilst the much younger and some would say, inferior SBS, are the best of the rest!

Don't be fooled into taking the line that a Squib will shoot at you because Marines throughout the world will tell you they are better than everybody else.

It's their mentality about fighting on water. Proper soldiers drive and shoot tanks, man artillery or rocket pieces; they may also ride armoured taxis to work or jump from rotary and fixed wing aircraft.

All a Squib does is float around all day, waiting for the tide to turn in their favour, or fart about on or in rubber dingies for a living.

That's what being a Marine is all about. I know! My friend 'Squib' reminds me every time I tell him that only God can walk on water.

Originally posted by fritz
reply to post by IAF101[/url]

Obviously you never read between the lines, understand Brit humour or sarcasm when you see it.

The SAS are damned fine soldiers and here in the UK, they are still considered to be the best of the best, whilst the much younger and some would say, inferior SBS, are the best of the rest!

Don't be fooled into taking the line that a Squib will shoot at you because Marines throughout the world will tell you they are better than everybody else.

It's their mentality about fighting on water. Proper soldiers drive and shoot tanks, man artillery or rocket pieces; they may also ride armoured taxis to work or jump from rotary and fixed wing aircraft.

Brit humor and sarcasm ? Screw that. I've read what's written, not what you intended to write.

As for "Squib" ( which BTW is used as a noun to refer to a small sailing boat and not MARINES or as a verb to refer to small explosive charges) - are doing what they were trained to do and THAT is what "proper soldiers" do.

Just because a soldier is some kind of GI Joe doesnt make him a better soldier than the guy manning a comm terminal, anybody who's been in any military knows that. They each do what they are trained to do. No SAS/Special OPs squad can do what an infantry battalion or what an armored column can as well as those guys can. They each have their own function and doing what they were trained to do as well as they can do it is a "proper soldier".

As I said, the perception of comparing one special operations force to another is absurd and impossible to reach an objective conclusion.

As an American it would be hard for me to tell you which is the best Special operations force in the US let alone the world. So the idea that A's are better than B's forces is purely subjective.

reply to post by IAF101[/url]

Jeez mate, get a life.

Squaddie humour has been the backbone of the British armed forces for as long as any retarded, old sweat can remember.

My reply to you was very much tongue in cheeck and meant to be so.

As an Englishman, I do object to people trying to teach me about it. English is my first language, the Queen's English that is. Not American English or Pidgeon English, nor is it Microsoft English.

I know what a squib is. My mate Scottie is one. It's my pet name or nickname for him. He likes it. He's an ex Marine and a Skid Lid to boot. [U2U me and I'll tell you]

But an American squib differs from an English squib and you can say whatever you like, but I'll still chose to ignore it.

Originally posted by dave420 Israel certainly thinks the SAS are better than any US special forces, as we saw in GW1. And they know a lot about killing folks.

I presume you mean the SAS and not the Israelis?

If so, then well yes they do. But, more importantly, they know a lot more about saving lives as well.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by rogue1
Oh, It's easy to hit a headsized target at 600m with iron sights. I dare say they would be a majority of people who disagree with you. You cadets shoot to higher standards than the US MArine Scout/Snipers. You must be reaaaalllllly gooood
Also the iron sites

Is that why iron sites on rifles have a 500 range setting? These cadets are fireing sniper rifles.
Also marine core snipers can shoot like that , how do you think they can do amazeing shots like the 1000+ shot?
These cadets have trained for YEARS.

Er...what Rouge1 says is actually quite true. Nobody today uses iron sites to shoot anything more than 200-300m. Most assault rifles actually only shoot like 300mts or so accurately.

500mts is quite far away and hitting a head at 500mts without an optical sight is mostly luck because as you can barely see a head at that range forget aiming. Even if you practice day and night for years, a headshot of 500mts on battlefield or in a real life situation would be pretty hard to do even with optical sights for an average sniper because they have to take into consideration many factors like wind, terrain, the targets movement etc. With iron sights it would be pretty much a guess and great luck if they pulled it off.

Those 1000mt shots were done by snipers using something like an anti-material rifle with special ammo and a massive scope and after lots of practice.

Gotta say it but most of the top flight SF groups are the best at what they do, and each one is a little unique mastering somethings over other groups. they all have a slightly different spectrum of talent.

WE WILL NEVER KNOW WHO THE BEST ARE.

For several reasons: SF groups don't exactly advertise what exactly they are capable of doing. it sorta screws up OPSEC. Most SF groups perform missions that are not on the record or on the books. Nobody talks about them, even in specifics to their best civilian friends or any military friend not directly associated with that specific mission or project.

We all know this and it's been said a dozen times through out this thread.

All I know is that I have a friend who is pretty well accomplished in the SEAL community and just the stuff that he can talk about is very very beyond what we would expect a SEAL team to be capable of. I've heard all about his training (what he can tell me) and SEALs do A ASS LOAD more than we will ever know about. their capabilities are far beyond what any of us not directly associated with them would ever imagine. Part of warfare is not letting anybody even know what the battlefield is or where the real action is. it's usually not the battlefields that we'd imagine.

And SEALs in my opinion are about as good as everybody else that are really really good. So if I know for a fact that they are capable of a lot more than we will ever know than it's safe to say that just about every other SF group out there is too. So we are all just wasting our time speculating about who's the best.

Funny I've asked some of the best who the best are, and they have all said in one way or another that most top flight SF groups are the best. you can only as humans get so good at something and that top flight SF teams all are pushed right the envelope of human ability. They are all the best one can be. And when asked who would win in a head to head these guys or these guys. every single SF guy I've ever talked to have said it's a toss up. if either side would even win.

Also most of the time countries decide to work with one SF team over the other not because of the quality of the operator but for the politics and logistics and plain old red tape that working together would bring. deploying a SF team is 90% politics and back office deals than a straight forward go get em guys. who knows maybe for the isralies during GW1 they went with operating with the british instead of the american units for that very reason. the rules of working together on a mission or project might have been unsatisfactory, who gets control, how far the help will extend, maybe they just don't like the jerk in charge of making the decisions for one SF group over the other and went for one that they have a more amicable relationship with.