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posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 12:18 PM
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I just think you cant automatically label anyone special force organization as better then the other. How do you know exactly? From personal experience? Through hand to hand combat? through combat experience?

I think the US infantrymen have a huge advantage in the techno department that many other well rounded special forces dont and wont have the luxury of. Such future systems as the Exo-Skeleton and nanotechnology which are due to be out in the 2010-2015 era, that will surely give the US SF agents the "upper hand" regardless of the necessary "know how". As our technology becomes more efficient and stream line, then so does the soldier.




posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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Although most first world nations with SF are usually first rate regardless. I want to make a comment about shooting someone in the leg as being superior...HOW?

I'm with a team of good guys storming the terrorist laden building and i shoot them all in the leg. That does NOTHING to incapacitate or nutralize a threat. Leaves me and my guys open to getting returning fire. Doesn't allow you to get a bead on the next tango to shoot cause the one you just shot is still shooting back. Will get you and everybody else killed, and the guy can still scream his head off alerting all the other bad guys. Shooting a guy in the leg while doing any kind of military assult=stupid or bad unrealistic training. Legs are pretty large and not too hard to hit. especially if you are running around with your gun NOT in the low ready position as it should be.

every SF group trains when doing dynamic entries to try and leave as little surviving tangos as possible unless their orders are to take them alive. The one dude who didn't die in the raid gets to be the interogatee.

You do not want the bad guys to still be able to shoot you. Do you think with adrenalin going you would notice a shot to the leg for a few seconds? I know SF guys who have been shot in their arms and legs before and not noticed. One guy didn't even notice that a bullet from a dragonof went strait through his bicept and cameout the other side until he was back on the helo 20 minuts later. Shooting a guy in the leg is not clearing a room by anybody's standards.

If you want to know great accuracy then look to other groups. Some SEALS train by putting 3X5 cards on random spots on the "tangos' bodies while they are going through the kill house in training. Any shot that isn't landed on that little card even if it would have been fatal doesn't count and the guy fails the test.

GSG9 routienly try and go for neck and throat shots, and land them when going through the kill houses. In fact i'm pretty sure even the french train their guys to consitantly shoot the bad guys in the most leathal place they can,not the legs.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 02:42 PM
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One thing that strikes me as funny is that everybody thinks that SF guys get all these cool toys. Thye do get cool toys but as far as guns go they are almost always the same gun a infiltry man would get. nothing special just the operator. THey do get plastic/rosin MP5's from time to time and they do get to play with special loads and cartridges. But by and large their guns are always standard everyday guns.

And they almost never get to use those cool swimmer delivery vehicles. Every SEAL i've talked to on the down low have said nah...we don't get anything cool to play with infact they treat us like S***, or give us crappy intel every chance they can.

I know guys that have been mis-dropped into the ocean by helecopter 100 miles away from where they were supposed to be, because the methods used to infiltrate were so low tech, then had letters issued to their families saying that they were presumed lost or dead, only to get a second letter a day later saying no no our mistake they're fine we found them.

Swimming, helecopters, cars and feet are the most common methods of transport for the SF.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 03:02 PM
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Which is exactly why the exoskeleton and nanotechnology alike will have huge impact on our special forces of today.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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i'm stoked about it. I've been following the darpa stuff for a while and I can't wait to see it implemented.

The guys i know are getting pretty old and are looking at mandatory retirement with a pencil pushing job in a few years. but they aren't holding their breath. most have complained about how cheap the military is with them. Trust me their pay sucks even for luitenents (SP) and lt.commanders.

Not worth it in the end according to some and that they recommend the coast gaurd



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 05:21 PM
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I personally, do not believe in all this techno crap. Exoskeletons and Nanotechnology do not an SF operative make.

It is the person inside each of us, our determination to succeed, our ability to overcome adversity when others throw in the towel and above all, to make the supreme sacrifice to help those closest to you.

Technology may help a good soldier become a better soldier but it can never take the place of experience or give you the respect of your peers.

That has to be earnt and preferably on the field of battle where you will face the ultimate test - somebody just like you.

'Many come, but few are chosen'



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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I hear that. It is ALWAYS the man not the machine in the end. Technology helps but SF operators are who they are because of their grit, discapline, and maturity, and seriousness.

A good example of what makes a good SF operator would be a training excercise Delta did back when they were trying to proove themselves to the military around the time of their inception.

Charlie Beckwith was challanged to 'destroy' a rail road bridge somewhere in the US at a chosen location at a specific time. The army posted a bunch of troops to watch over the bridge for a few days prior to the expected assult,and all through out the duration of the assult. Their job was to make sure nobody could approach the bridge or take their objectives of blowing up the bridge.

Delta having spied or figured out the army's plan snuck into the area even in advance of the army units, snuck under the bridge and crawled up into the support girders. And layed perfectly still for several days. No food no water other than their canteens, getting stung by spiders and bugs, and suffering from the heat. Go to the bathroom in their pants sans whiping. No talking, absolute silence. None of them complained cause they had to get the job done period. They were true proffesionals.

They placed a well concealed group of spotters down the railroad tracs to signal the guys hidding in the bridge girders once the army had arrived.

So the army moves in sets up 'secures' the bridge or so they thought, walked patrols on it all day, unaware that 6 inches under their boots SF guys were in hidding the whole time. When the time was right the recon team gave the signal, Delta rolled out from under the bridge and 'slaughtered' the entire army troop. Embarrasing the army in the process. There was no technology envolved just discapline,and determination.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by fritz
I personally, do not believe in all this techno crap. Exoskeletons and Nanotechnology do not an SF operative make.

It is the person inside each of us, our determination to succeed, our ability to overcome adversity when others throw in the towel and above all, to make the supreme sacrifice to help those closest to you.

Technology may help a good soldier become a better soldier but it can never take the place of experience or give you the respect of your peers.

That has to be earnt and preferably on the field of battle where you will face the ultimate test - somebody just like you.

'Many come, but few are chosen'


i agree with you, even though the technology will be saving tons of lives.

look at all the great battles that men, greatly outnumbered, have won because they fought like hell:

Sparta- 300 spartans against 100,000 Persians (it was 100,000 right?)

Rome- battles of Carthage they were severely outnumberd wuite a few times.

The Paris & Warsaw uprisings, the latter lasted months against far superior troups. The Frenchies also gave a hell of a fight and got reinforcements from Allies just in the nik of time.

Stalingrad- whether you like it or not, the Nazis held strong against far superior numbers for a while, but eventually were defeated when they ran out of ammo and food.

D Day- while i'mpretty sure the Nazis were outnumberd, look at the allied positions, hundred foot tall cliffs they had to scale while being machine gunned, mortared, shelled by artillery, etc. and they managed to take the beaches.

Israeli war in the 60's- Israel VS Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. the Israelis were far outnumbered, but their Airforce pulled off an amazing pre-emptive strike campaign and essentially won the war (i'm not sure if i got the correct countries or not, srry for inconvenience)


history has proved time and again that if your troops want to charge in, heads held high, and rip the enemies balls off and shove them down their throats.....you've got the best bastards you can ask for when it comes to fighting.

I still can't wait until this new technology comes out,though, it is going to be friggin awesome



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by fritz
I personally, do not believe in all this techno crap. Exoskeletons and Nanotechnology do not an SF operative make.

It is the person inside each of us, our determination to succeed, our ability to overcome adversity when others throw in the towel and above all, to make the supreme sacrifice to help those closest to you.

Technology may help a good soldier become a better soldier but it can never take the place of experience or give you the respect of your peers.

That has to be earnt and preferably on the field of battle where you will face the ultimate test - somebody just like you.

'Many come, but few are chosen'


I agree man. The thing is the exo skeleton and nanotech will really make our soldiers more of a killing platform, an F-22 with legs. Like someone said earlier here, SF soldiers dont get all the cool neat fancy toys that you see in hollywood action films. And in alot of cases they are on their own with just normal weapons that rely on their training. Just imagine a soldier with the exo skeleton with nanotech! Its F'ing amazing what the military planners are planning with the future soldier. The exo skeleton and nanotech will go along ways in actually making our soldiers more deadlier, while keeping them safer.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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i've also heard that many times the SF have minimal ammo, having to rely on pretty much "ninja skills". killing with knives and what not. knocking a few nose bones back into the brain.

any truth to this?



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 07:00 PM
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No SF soldiers go in with as much ammo as they can hold. They will do with out food and water cause they know how to get that in the wild, so they dispose of it if they can and pack extra ammo.

Another thing too is that generaly they never use found ammo or enemy weapons from directly off the battle field if the don't have to. If they need to bring in Ak's to blend in with the environment better then they will have spent alot of time making sure they work up to their own standards. And if at all possible they never want to use ammo packed or prepared by the enemy. It could be a trap or the round might just suck or have been put together poorly(gunpowder sucks or won't burn right or evenly,squibs etc)

So SF guys will almost always bring their own ammo that they themselves have prepared or have loaded the magazines personally to insure quality(like packing your own parachute,can't trust someone else to do it if it's gunna save your life)

And they will bring as much as they can carry.

They do get some pretty cool classified radio/satallite/hack into anything computer trasciever thingies. These things are classified although other countries know about it or have been handed the stuff to them by us cause we're sometimes dumb enough to give china our secret tech. They have a device that can comunicate with just about anything. Can hack into just about anything,even secretly, or can eaves drop onto just about anything. Sounds crazy I know. but picture this a small contingent of SF operators post themselvs near the N. korean boarder. N Korea starts a war and sends cruise missiles towords S. Korea. Clandestinly hidden SF guys use this tool to hack into the cruise missiles while in flight and then screw with their progarmming, either detonating them or sending them far off course. Could have been why the scuds couldn't hit crap,



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 07:04 PM
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Or russia built scuds with the same accurace as WW2 vengence rockets that the nazi's were sending blindly into england. Not likely concidering that for a while they were ahead of us in the ballistic missile department.

Was the guidance of the scuds interfered with somehow?

This technology exists.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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Hacking cruise missiles in flight? Sorry but thats beyond what SOF troops can do. Mostly its just call in an airstrike or blow the dam scuds themselves or whatever missile deemed important to be destroyed. The Scuds just sucks at what it does thats all. It wasn't very accurate. If we could manipulate the Scuds, then that incident that killed 28 American troops would not have happened. That event shows we had no control over the Scuds.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 07:35 PM
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I'm just passing on the word. I've been told this by SF guys. But by and large only a very select few ever get to use this stuff. I agree that scuds sucked. Maybe the scuds that landed or got through did so becuase SF guys with this equipment weren't around at the specific time when those peticluar weapons were launched, they could have been elsewhere. There can't be very much of this tech around to be deployed widely or to cover all bases. Hacking into cruise missiles and that sort was only one of it's capabilities. It's basically the ultimate portable eaves dropping device, can even intercept enemy transmissions and alter them, or send their own false flag transmittions of their own.

On the tech dept. we have all sorts of gizmos that are capable of all sorts of technical feats that we aren't going to find out about for a long time.

SEALS have diving equipment that can take them down to 900 feet. Sounds crazy but I've talked to SEALs who had to use the stuff during training excercises where they had to decend down the side of an oil derrick. Some crazy heliox mixture that doesn't create lung embulisms. Said thatthe tech was tried and tested so they didn't worry about that nearly as much as they did getting disorientated 900 feet down in pitch black water with a chem glow stick for navigation.

I was skepticle myself until I asked one of the many Bubbleheads hear at ATS in a U2U. the response was that my 'friend' was in the know.

And I agree that most of the missiles were destroyed through high cal. weapons or satchel charges, shoulder launched anti armor missiles etc.

I agree with most of your posts consistantly...so don't take my stance the wrong way.
I'm just saying that most (95% of SF guys don't get to play with this high tech stuff, but some do. THis stuff exists wether it's been utilized or adopted by the SF community.

Unfortunantly with technology-it's not dependable. Most SF guys worth their weight usually prefer to keep it simple and will use oldfashioned detonators with a redundant back up cause the electrical gizmos usually fail you when you least want them to.



I still think that humvees should be outfitted with people plows



posted on Jun, 10 2007 @ 04:32 PM
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The best special forces in the world are the SAS from britain they are the oldest special forces aswell
the SAS are renound for beibg the best all over the world



posted on Jun, 14 2007 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by CrazyPolak
look at all the great battles that men, greatly outnumbered, have won because they fought like hell:

Sparta- 300 spartans against 100,000 Persians (it was 100,000 right?)

Rome- battles of Carthage they were severely outnumberd wuite a few times.

The Paris & Warsaw uprisings, the latter lasted months against far superior troups. The Frenchies also gave a hell of a fight and got reinforcements from Allies just in the nik of time.

Stalingrad- whether you like it or not, the Nazis held strong against far superior numbers for a while, but eventually were defeated when they ran out of ammo and food.

D Day- while i'mpretty sure the Nazis were outnumberd, look at the allied positions, hundred foot tall cliffs they had to scale while being machine gunned, mortared, shelled by artillery, etc. and they managed to take the beaches.

Israeli war in the 60's- Israel VS Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. the Israelis were far outnumbered, but their Airforce pulled off an amazing pre-emptive strike campaign and essentially won the war (i'm not sure if i got the correct countries or not, srry for inconvenience)


history has proved time and again that if your troops want to charge in, heads held high, and rip the enemies balls off and shove them down their throats.....you've got the best bastards you can ask for when it comes to fighting.

I still can't wait until this new technology comes out,though, it is going to be friggin awesome


While history has proved many times over that sheer numbers will not win you the battle or the war you don't seem to know history very well do you, or you're definately picking the wrong examples.

- It wasn't 300 Sprtans alone by far. research

- In stalingrad the Germans weren't defeated because they ran out of ammo and food, and really you shouldn't forget to mention that the Soviet army had hardly any of that (if any at all) when they were fighting the Germans. They were the ones fighting like hell as you put it, with pretty much bare hands. But seeing as you're Polish you're probably stating this for all the wrong reasons. And the Nazis did not win so how would this be an example.

- If you're having a hard time trying to figure out who on D-day then you really don't know history. The US outnumbered the Germans by a large margin. Again, since the victorious side is the US who had more men then the Germans (not saying that's why they won) your example seems misplaced.

- The only reason Isreal still existed on the map that day was because of THE USAF.

Regards,
Maestro



posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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yeah regarding carthage. Rome attacked the city of carthage and yes the battle was long and drawn out. THe carthenians or whatever, lived in a unique city. Carthage was very modern. like manhatten they had limited room to develop the city so they built up. most of the buildings in carthage were 4-6 story apartments. SO the carthenians used sniping and arrows to whittle down the romans everytime they got too close to the city. The roman general finally got a little annoyed and decided to simply just burn the city to the ground with everybody in it.

The Spartans with the 300 or something was a little misleading. Athens not sparta did all the work and stratagy in that battle. THe spartans were a token force placed there by athens general to act like bait to trick the persians into battling athens on their own battle field of choosing. THe spartans got mowed down pretty much. they may have fought fiercely but they did get plowed right over. the tricked persians rushed passed the dead spartans and were fooled into an athenian ambush. tactics and strategy were what won the day.



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by blue cell
 


First: This can't be WWIII; The French haven't surrenderred yet!

Second: Most of those speculating about the quality or training of elite forces' training and expertise would die in the first fifteen minutes of training because their soft pasty little twinkie eating arses have not been exposed to anything not on a monitor or TV for years. Junior, That ain't no zit on your butt, it's a bed sore!

Third: Their military experience is limited to games on said monitor.

Fourth: If they need anything, it is a gallon of Clearasil and a girlfriend who doesn't come with a patch/repair kit.

Fifth: This thread is a waste of time by wannabe (until it gets real) troopers.

"It's been real and it's been good, but it ain't been real good." SFC J. Franklin (1967) Out



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by devilwasp
 


Hey, I saw the movie "ffolkes", too. The following is not aimed at you personally, and I am not picking on you; But it is appalling to me how horrible the atrocities perpetrated against the English language on this website are at times. Please, proofread your postings aloud prior to posting them and check your spelling and grammar. Some postings can be quite difficult to follow logically, and the distraction of poor writing can make them impossible to comprehend. For contributors in the U.S. and British Commonwealth whose native and primary language is English this mental slovenliness is inexcusable. To those here for whom English is a secondary or even tertiary language your efforts are appreciated; continue to strive for excellence.



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 07:30 PM
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OK wat ar yu a speling profesor or somthing? Mi poasts ar ilogikal? speling bad? I doent understan. hoos post has bad spelinng? explane pleeze.

all so my girlfrend doesnt hav a plastik pach kit, shees my rite hand! I cal her rosy.

seriusly detachment gray sok is the bestest specal forses teem ever!





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