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Senator John McCain is Not a War Hero

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posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:12 PM
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Who would you consult about buying socks?


I've heard sock puppets are very much in the know on that subject. Trump, not so sure. Does he wear them?




posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

IMO, Trumps wording/rhetoric was off, perhaps not the intent. The Senator has been given plenty off leeway on his positions due to that service/heroism.

He's rubbed me the wrong way for years, LOL.

I agree to the extent it's time for the Senator to butt out of politics



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: reldra
Four of Trump's 500 companies went bankrupt. Huge difference and not the topic here.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: JimNasium
Thanks, anyone who knows me will unequivocally state that I am in no way shape or form PC. I do not believe in the concept.

As far as Sen. McCain's finances are concerned, I have no idea however you have to wonder why he wants to go to war so often and risk our troops lives with seemingly no concern for the soldiers or their families. I have yet to meet anyone exposed to combat that looks forward to it that did not have some serious emotional damage inside.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:27 PM
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edit on 21-7-2015 by notmyrealname because: oops



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: notmyrealname

That's valid. Yet had he not had 4 companies go bankrupt, he'd be hit for being an obvious crook with inside information and labeled just another power elitist.....


edit on 21-7-2015 by nwtrucker because: grammar



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: notmyrealname

That's valid. Yet had he not had 4 companies go bankrupt, he'd be hit for being an obvious crook with inside information and labeled just another power elitist.....



He still gets hit with that, shoot, I've been hit with that. It seems that anyone who has a successful business gets hit with the "you don't know what it is like" stuff.

Maybe someone should start a thread about why Trump had 4 companies go bankrupt and what that resulted in. I am not really a fan so I won't but, it is an idea and not hard to research.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: notmyrealname

So your saying Senator McCain during his war years is an example of a "Sociopathic Soldier?"



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: starwarsisreal
Nope, dont recall saying that at all.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 09:27 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: notmyrealname
There is a lot of chatter here on ATS regarding comments made regarding Senator McCain (America's longest serving Senator) regarding whether he is a war hero or not due to his more than 5 year detention under the Viet Cong. I personally do not believe in the currently portrayed opinion that being captured automatically 'earns' anyone the designation of 'War Hero' and decided to take at look at other threads to see what ATS has to say about it. After looking around I am even more firm in my opinion on the matter and would like to hear any comments that would lead me to change my opinion (and no, repeating the same thing over and over will not get me to change my opinion).

Here are some of the relevant threads on Senator McCain war related matters:

John McCain Killed 167 US Navy sailors?

Obama hits McCain's military credentials via Proxy

This thread never went anywhere in 2008 however it still stands to be debunked in any way:
McCain and the POW Cover-up

This thread definitely has a Pro McCain is a hero slant to it:
McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims

I will be flamed by some and may actually draw the ire of those that will seek to make me angry; so be it. I personally do not believe the current trend in the US which seems to want to make every player in the game a 'winner' regardless of whether they won or not. I do not agree that losing is something to be ashamed of however it is not something to be proud of. If ATS has other opinions on these things, let them fly:


If the man was a POW for 5 years, he is a war hero. And see: Coming from a Liberal Progressive possibly with socialist leanings.


Generally in line with you. Granted he was a POW for 5 years and deserveds respect. But he is not a 'War Hero' if there is truly any such thing as my father (holder of sliver and bronze stars) was always quick to say.



What is the definition then? If I was in the military and a POW for 5 * years and either escaped or was released, I would expect to be a hero, I would have been in place of someone else's son or daughter.


I implied (and will attempt to be more clear in the future) that there is no such thing as a "War Hero". Mostly just in the wrong (or right) place at the wrong (or right) time and lucky enough to do something right and well with enough people surviving to tell the tale. It's their job.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: notmyrealname

Please my friend. You need not except it. But you cant refuse me thanking you. Too many died, too many suffered and continue to.

I appreciate your feelings. But, please respect mine. You don't need to be a "hero" to be a good soldier or an American. So, we'll leave it a that.

Im not even going into the McCain issue past this post, because my comments have lead into another direction: yours. Sir. Thank you again for your service.

And with that, I'll close the issue and leave the thread topic to the debaters.

Best,

MS


edit on 21-7-2015 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Hello again Ketsuko. Nice to hear from you. Yes, I agree. It takes many things to be a hero or just labeled one.

A Purple Heart for getting blown off a 5 story building while saving 5 guys by continuously firing while injured so they can get away? Or getting one for twisting an ankle failing out of a jeep in the field? Apples and Oranges.

I don't know that I'd call anyone a real "hero"...except certainly my friend above. "Heros" come in all sizes, shapes and situations. And as Ive said elsewhere here tonight, I will leave it at that without addressing the McCain issue.

I will thank all for their service, and pass judgment on none, leaving this thread topic to the real debate itself.

Thanks again for the reply Ketsuko. Take care....

Best, MS



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 10:36 PM
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Being captured by the enemy is not an act of heroism. That's as simple as it gets.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 11:20 PM
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originally posted by: vonclod
I have read that McCain could of gone home 5 years earlier as a POW but didn't want to go home before others who were there when he got there. If it's true I would call that somewhat heroic..My respect goes to any who serve. I wonder if the offer of early release was just mind games? I know the VC liked to involve POWs in their propaganda machine.


To his credit, as the son and grandson of naval officers, the North Vietnamese were willing to send him home and he refused. I've heard many rumors about it but nothing terribly substantial.

The North Vietnamese also saved his life, he was in terrible shape when he was captured and they used valuable resources on him denying their own wounded to nurse him back to health.




edit on 21-7-2015 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 11:22 PM
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a reply to: trollz

Hey, politics changes everything.

JFK gets the CMH for saving a sailor. He should have been court martialed for allowing his PT boat to be hit by a destroyer...


edit on 21-7-2015 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 11:32 PM
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a reply to: notmyrealname


Really good article.


www.theamericanconservative.com...

Thanks for sharing it.



posted on Jul, 22 2015 @ 04:28 AM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: notmyrealname

I feel he merits the same respect for serving as anyone else does. I have no problems with the hero label for him.

I also feel he uses/or is given too much leeway for that service/heroism. He is well past his prime and should move on and let someone younger take his seat.

Thank you for your service, Senator. Don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out.....




I agree completely.

He was a hero for serving and surviving being a POW.

He other action while in where not heroic at all.

The problem is what happened after the war. He milked that POW ribbon for all it was worth and then some. Any time someone has tried to back him down on any subject; he would point at it and say "but I'm a war hero."

JFK was asked about being a war hero. His reply. "I'm not a hero, they sank my boat."

I served for over 15 years and know a few people I would call heroes. The difference is all the ones I know with just say thanks when you bring it up and then go ahead with their lives.



edit on 22-7-2015 by dismanrc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2015 @ 04:41 AM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: vonclod
I have read that McCain could of gone home 5 years earlier as a POW but didn't want to go home before others who were there when he got there. If it's true I would call that somewhat heroic..My respect goes to any who serve. I wonder if the offer of early release was just mind games? I know the VC liked to involve POWs in their propaganda machine.


To his credit, as the son and grandson of naval officers, the North Vietnamese were willing to send him home and he refused. I've heard many rumors about it but nothing terribly substantial.

The North Vietnamese also saved his life, he was in terrible shape when he was captured and they used valuable resources on him denying their own wounded to nurse him back to health.





Umm wonder why they did that? Maybe because they wanted to foster trust with him and his family?

Remember his nickname was "songbird" for a reason.



posted on Jul, 22 2015 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: notmyrealname

anybody who went over to that heck hole (vietnam) and got captured by the enemies and held for five years deserves respect. look at how people idolize jessica lynch as a hero and she was only a pow for about a week.



posted on Jul, 22 2015 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't get it.

This is America, we're fanatical over calling our military members heroes. One of the quickest ways to commit career suicide is to insult a military member.

Why is this different with McCain?

Because Trump said it?

So now the same conservatives that jump down anyone's throat for not supporting the military 150% are excusing Trump on this?


I have been questioning this same line of reasoning for a while now. If this were ANY other person, questioning their POW status would be career suicide. How often do you drive down the street and see one of these?


I don't much like McCain, but dammit, he IS a war hero.

edit on 22-7-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)




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