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Senator John McCain is Not a War Hero

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posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

I believe the media are the ones that presented only part of what Trump said in order to skew public opinion:

Misleading Media

Besides, this thread is not about Trump which is why I separated the two topics.

Thanks for your opinion.




posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't get it.

This is America, we're fanatical over calling our military members heroes. One of the quickest ways to commit career suicide is to insult a military member.

Why is this different with McCain?

Because Trump said it?

So now the same conservatives that jump down anyone's throat for not supporting the military 150% are excusing Trump on this?


LOL Trump. I wouldn;t listen to him about what brand of socks to buy.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I believe the media are the ones that presented only part of what Trump said in order to skew public opinion:

Misleading Media

Besides, this thread is not about Trump which is why I separated the two topics.

Thanks for your opinion.


Trump doesn't need skewing, he is just skewed. On every issue. On every topic.
edit on 21-7-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: notmyrealname

He was beaten and tortured and lived in tiny cages among other places so small that he could hardly sit....day, months, years...being poked by animals and some tortured ways I wont describe here...and was shot down and crashed....and never gave up or gave in.

And you did what during Nam? Iraq? Kuwait? Afghanistan? I see....


See? He did do that and he put up a strong resistance, even heroic, but does that make him a "war hero?" It makes him a heroic survivor certainly and tough SOB. And he deserves a measure of respect for stepping up to the plate and serving when others like, ummm, Mr. Hillary Clinton ran away to Canada.

But when you think war hero, do think of someone who was a captive? It's a fair question. I think there are different types of heroism and heroic feats.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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I have read that McCain could of gone home 5 years earlier as a POW but didn't want to go home before others who were there when he got there. If it's true I would call that somewhat heroic..My respect goes to any who serve. I wonder if the offer of early release was just mind games? I know the VC liked to involve POWs in their propaganda machine.

edit on 21-7-2015 by vonclod because: me no can spelt



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

McCain is the anti-Christ
www.abovetopsecret.com...

McCain killed 167
www.abovetopsecret.com...

McCain has a history here that wasn't very popular. . . .



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:42 PM
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originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
a reply to: notmyrealname

You post your opinion on this topic, and present it in a way to stimulate conversation--why should you be "flamed"?
That said, the following facts are well established, and are historical record:

--McCain trained as a Naval aviator, and as such made carrier landings, night traps included. The pucker factor is high-end there, and something only a minority of our country and service members are capable of doing;
--He narrowly escaped death from an errant missile while serving on the USS Forrestal in 1967;
--He flew combat missions deep in enemy territory during Viet Nam War;

--He was shot down, captured and housed in the infamous Hanoi Hilton, eventually released;
--He earned the DFC and other citations for actions while serving.

Does he deserve to be called a hero? If the criteria is based on his capture and captivity only, mayhap. I personally am not able or capable of doing the things he has, and based on the above listings, I would call him a hero--that's just my opinion.



All of the things in bold were his job and many many many others did the same things and still do today. War Hero designation is that of extremely Uncommon Valor and I do not feel that doing his job nor being captured qualify for Uncommon Valor. With regards to the DFC, how many of the other pilots with him received the same decoration? McCain did not get decorated due to influence by Daddy did he? I do not know either but it would be interesting to find out. (it doesn't matter anyway as 'll explain below my reasoning behind my opinion)

My reasons for not identifying him as a War Hero are related to the things he did that were not part of his job while in captivity as well as the things he continued to do now. Bowe Bergdhal earned the Hero moniker however now that the truth is being told, the Hero part is no longer accurate; same here IMO.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: vonclod
If you can find that I would sincerely like to see that! That would be something that would definitely help me to change my opinion on this matter.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: notmyrealname

Yes sir...I am going there. Thank you sir for your service. Very much. A hero is defined in many ways by many different Americans.

I'm sure many would consider you one as well. I do...even if you may not.

At least take that as intended. Thank you for serving. Not everyone came back.

My best to you.....MS



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: reldra

Yes, I know he is an easy target however, that is not what this is about….



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't get it.

This is America, we're fanatical over calling our military members heroes. One of the quickest ways to commit career suicide is to insult a military member.

Why is this different with McCain?

Because Trump said it?

So now the same conservatives that jump down anyone's throat for not supporting the military 150% are excusing Trump on this?


LOL Trump. I wouldn;t listen to him about what brand of socks to buy.


Who would you consult about buying socks?

Sorry just had to.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: mysterioustranger
No hero, wrong place, wrong time; glad to still be here.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:51 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: notmyrealname

He was beaten and tortured and lived in tiny cages among other places so small that he could hardly sit....day, months, years...being poked by animals and some tortured ways I wont describe here...and was shot down and crashed....and never gave up or gave in.

And you did what during Nam? Iraq? Kuwait? Afghanistan? I see....


See? He did do that and he put up a strong resistance, even heroic, but does that make him a "war hero?" It makes him a heroic survivor certainly and tough SOB. And he deserves a measure of respect for stepping up to the plate and serving when others like, ummm, Mr. Hillary Clinton ran away to Canada.

But when you think war hero, do think of someone who was a captive? It's a fair question. I think there are different types of heroism and heroic feats.


Stop with the running to Canada thing, if you were the parent of an 18 year old boy then, you would have had them to Canada so fast if there was no other way, you would have been dining on real Canadian maple syrup by day 2 while your son was safe up North. Go ahead and watch some videos of the birthday lottery on TV.

He is still a war hero I think. Unless the definition has changed.

But you cannot insult people who didn't participate, many middle class Republican boys didn't..my father being one-doctor's notes did wonders. Many poor Liberal boys didn't, not wanting to die in a war in Vietnam. Wow, can you blame them?

If I ever see a draft like that in my lifetime, I am the first to set up transport to Canada. For Men and Women, I imagine Women will be included in the next one.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: notmyrealname

I heard it on the radio this morn and a quick search shows It's part of his profile on wiki..for what that is worth.
this is a paragraph from wiki

Altogether, McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years, nearly five of them after his refusal to accept the out-of-sequence repatriation offer. His wartime injuries left him permanently incapable of raising either arm more than 80 degrees.[33][111] For his actions as a POW, McCain was awarded the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, three more instances of the Bronze Star, another instance of the Navy Commendation Medal, and the Purple Heart.[58][99] He also gained an appreciation, from experiencing the mutual help and organized resistance of the POWs, that his earlier individualism needed to be tempered by a belief in causes greater than self-interest
edit on 21-7-2015 by vonclod because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: notmyrealname
There is a lot of chatter here on ATS regarding comments made regarding Senator McCain (America's longest serving Senator) regarding whether he is a war hero or not due to his more than 5 year detention under the Viet Cong. I personally do not believe in the currently portrayed opinion that being captured automatically 'earns' anyone the designation of 'War Hero' and decided to take at look at other threads to see what ATS has to say about it. After looking around I am even more firm in my opinion on the matter and would like to hear any comments that would lead me to change my opinion (and no, repeating the same thing over and over will not get me to change my opinion).

Here are some of the relevant threads on Senator McCain war related matters:

John McCain Killed 167 US Navy sailors?

Obama hits McCain's military credentials via Proxy

This thread never went anywhere in 2008 however it still stands to be debunked in any way:
McCain and the POW Cover-up

This thread definitely has a Pro McCain is a hero slant to it:
McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims

I will be flamed by some and may actually draw the ire of those that will seek to make me angry; so be it. I personally do not believe the current trend in the US which seems to want to make every player in the game a 'winner' regardless of whether they won or not. I do not agree that losing is something to be ashamed of however it is not something to be proud of. If ATS has other opinions on these things, let them fly:


If the man was a POW for 5 years, he is a war hero. And see: Coming from a Liberal Progressive possibly with socialist leanings.


Generally in line with you. Granted he was a POW for 5 years and deserveds respect. But he is not a 'War Hero' if there is truly any such thing as my father (holder of sliver and bronze stars) was always quick to say.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: notmyrealname


Greetings- Firstly I commend You for stepping out on that limb.. Sure, a true "Patriot" would fight until death to defend Your right to speak/type whatever it is that You believe, but it seems the wires have been crossed a few years back and now We "live" (try to exist really..) without pissing off somebody for they are now "offended" and if there were a real cause to be offended about, that has now become shortchanged.

Out of ALL the corrupted politicos in Wash. D.C. that should KNOW (KNOW trumps 'feel', 'thought' 'believed') but actually KNOW that WAR is HELL, it would be John McCain but He lied about WMD (twice) and wanted to go to 3 WARS.. This begs the question "Mr. McCain where is Your personal finances wrapped up in"?

I'm under the impression that George W. Bush did more to "defend" the United States than John McCain did, Mr. Bush never left Texas airspace except for personal jaunts up to Oklahoma, but then again the U.S. is HERE and NOT 5,000 miles away... Wouldn't that fall under the Dep't of Offense? Isn't that an offensive procedure when You go bomb the 'snip' out of other folks?

It also needs to be addressed that McCain "fought" during the Vietnam War when it was discovered that the CIA™ transported tons of heroin in body bags, this is a FACT. In 2001, when The Taliban was in charge, Afghanistan supplied 7% of the World's opium, now it is 84+%. Is there a heroin problem in the US? Is there an opiate based Rx medication problem in the US?

It helps to also remind YourSelf that a majority of prisons/jails in the US are now run privately, and this business model works best when a lot of folks get booked and housed. Fees are attached to both.

Wake Up and Stay Hydrated...

namaste



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 07:56 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: notmyrealname
There is a lot of chatter here on ATS regarding comments made regarding Senator McCain (America's longest serving Senator) regarding whether he is a war hero or not due to his more than 5 year detention under the Viet Cong. I personally do not believe in the currently portrayed opinion that being captured automatically 'earns' anyone the designation of 'War Hero' and decided to take at look at other threads to see what ATS has to say about it. After looking around I am even more firm in my opinion on the matter and would like to hear any comments that would lead me to change my opinion (and no, repeating the same thing over and over will not get me to change my opinion).

Here are some of the relevant threads on Senator McCain war related matters:

John McCain Killed 167 US Navy sailors?

Obama hits McCain's military credentials via Proxy

This thread never went anywhere in 2008 however it still stands to be debunked in any way:
McCain and the POW Cover-up

This thread definitely has a Pro McCain is a hero slant to it:
McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims

I will be flamed by some and may actually draw the ire of those that will seek to make me angry; so be it. I personally do not believe the current trend in the US which seems to want to make every player in the game a 'winner' regardless of whether they won or not. I do not agree that losing is something to be ashamed of however it is not something to be proud of. If ATS has other opinions on these things, let them fly:


If the man was a POW for 5 years, he is a war hero. And see: Coming from a Liberal Progressive possibly with socialist leanings.


Generally in line with you. Granted he was a POW for 5 years and deserveds respect. But he is not a 'War Hero' if there is truly any such thing as my father (holder of sliver and bronze stars) was always quick to say.



What is the definition then? If I was in the military and a POW for 5 * years and either escaped or was released, I would expect to be a hero, I would have been in place of someone else's son or daughter.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: JimNasium
Namaste, you always have clear thoughts. I am also thinking McCain may have been threatened, later, over what he knew. And that shouldn't diminish his time as a POW, even if he became a politico.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:02 PM
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originally posted by: notmyrealname

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't get it.

This is America, we're fanatical over calling our military members heroes. One of the quickest ways to commit career suicide is to insult a military member.

Why is this different with McCain?

Because Trump said it?

So now the same conservatives that jump down anyone's throat for not supporting the military 150% are excusing Trump on this?


LOL Trump. I wouldn;t listen to him about what brand of socks to buy.


Who would you consult about buying socks?

Sorry just had to.


I use Motley Fool. Trump has gone bankrupt 4 times. I get the humor though



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 08:11 PM
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a reply to: reldra

Duty is duty. My father just missed being called up in that lottery, and he wasn't running anywhere.

But clearly you belong here since you now pretend to be psychic.


edit on 21-7-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)







 
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