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US-led drills in Ukraine may threaten peace process: Moscow

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posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 09:34 PM
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US-led drills in Ukraine may threaten peace process: Moscow


Moscow (Russia) (AFP) - Moscow said on Monday that US-led military exercises in western Ukraine that began this week may have "explosive" consequences and threaten to derail the peace process in the separatist east.

"The military drills involving NATO members and Ukraine's army that started in Lviv region under US command are a clear demonstration of NATO's provocative policy to unequivocally support the policies of current Kiev authorities in eastern Ukraine," the foreign ministry said in a statement.

Ukrainian and US troops on Monday launched fresh drills involving 1,800 soldiers from 18 countries, meant to bolster the morale of the armed forces amid an ongoing 15-month conflict with pro-Russian separatists.

Russia responded mere hours after the drills kicked off near Ukraine's border with Poland.

"Not only is NATO not ready to recognise the wrongness and possible explosive consequences of holding such drills but it is considerably increasing their scope," it said.

"These actions... may threaten to disrupt the visible progress in the peace process concerning the deep internal crisis in Ukraine," it said.

Kiev has been locked in a conflict since April 2014 with pro-Moscow rebels in parts of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, accusing Russia of funnelling in troops and resources to sustain the insurgency -- charges Moscow denies.

A peace accord was struck in the Belarussian capital Minsk in February, but deadly clashes continue despite the truce.



Russia invades Ukraine and tells the world that military maneuvers in Russia are no ones concern but Russia yet Russia demands the opposite from surrounding nations.

NATO is a defensive alliance only.
NATO is NOT training Ukraine forces in west Ukraine near Poland (countries who are NATO members are acting on their own).
Its none of Russia's business, as Russia maintains when it comes to their own military in their own territory.


Putin needs to withdraw Russian forces from all Ukraine territory. Trying to lecture "NATO" while doing the exact same in E. Ukraine with Russian rebel forces is hilarious.
edit on 20-7-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 09:37 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

It might be hilarious if it wasn't for people getting killed.

But it is hypocritical....and almost certainly meant solely for domestic consumption.....a market which doesn't know anything other than what they get on RT.com.



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 09:48 PM
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Yes both sides say the same thing...NATO complains when Russia does drills in Belarus, or simulates an attack on Sweden. Of course Russia will complain when NATO does similar drills.
edit on 20-7-2015 by TheChrome because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: TheChrome

not sure NATO has ever done drills in Belarus, nor has NATO simulated any attacks on Russia recently.

NATO has objected to military drills on the border with Ukraine which seem to serve a purpose of enabling them to station many troops there, keep them trained, and then release them "on leave" as "volunteers" to...er...go where they will......

I don't see a close equivalency at all.



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

The US gets played again in the Ukraine...

Zakharchenko, Deinego and Pushilin have set a trap for Poroshenko

And in desperation Kiev shells some more...

OSCE fixes shelling of Donetsk city centre first time in several months — SMM report

...and just as with MH17, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. another mess the Failing Empire of Chaos doesn't know how to get out of anymore...they could better re-prioritize and start paying for people with working brains instead of the mindless internet workforce who don't convince anyone anymore.



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 10:39 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

you do understand that 3 km is well within the range of many small weapons - eg the standard Russian 82mm mortar 2B14 has a range of 4.25km - so they can be outside the 3km "exclusion" zone and still shell the enemy - it is a meaningless gesture.

also I have no doubt at all that both sides are shelling each other - the "ceasefires" have never really taken hold - which is unsurprising given the rebels say they are only using tem to build up strength for eth next offensive, and Kiev says the rebel areas need to submit to Ukrainian law.

What has any of this got to do with the OP?? apart from your apparent constant desire to try to paint Saint Russia as the good guy against the weight of evidence?



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Because after the gazillioned failed invasion announcement, it's simply funny to see how the next failure is maturing...it's just for the pleasure of some, including me...I wonder how it feels to belong to a group who fails so utterly over and over again?



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 12:47 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra
Maybe I am wrong but when did Ukraine become part of NATO?

Why is NATO training supporting or anything else a non NATO member? Is that how that NATO thingy works?



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 01:34 AM
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originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: Xcathdra
Maybe I am wrong but when did Ukraine become part of NATO?

Why is NATO training supporting or anything else a non NATO member? Is that how that NATO thingy works?


Ukraine is not a part of NATO.
NATO is not training Ukraine forces either, contrary to the propaganda Russia puts out. The US, Canada and several other nations, on their own and not part of any NATO force, are training Ukraine national guard units near the Polish border.

Trying to claim NATO is involved because some of the countries are NATO members would be like arguing members of the Russian security alliance are participating in Russia's invasion of Ukraine simply because they are a part of an alliance with Russia.

China would strongly oppose being linked into that group.


With that said if Ukraine wishes to join NATO that decision is for the Ukrainian people.
edit on 21-7-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 01:49 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: Xcathdra
Maybe I am wrong but when did Ukraine become part of NATO?

Why is NATO training supporting or anything else a non NATO member? Is that how that NATO thingy works?


Ukraine is not a part of NATO.
NATO is not training Ukraine forces either, contrary to the propaganda Russia puts out. The US, Canada and several other nations, on their own and not part of any NATO force, are training Ukraine national guard units near the Polish border.

Trying to claim NATO is involved because some of the countries are NATO members would be like arguing members of the Russian security alliance are participating in Russia's invasion of Ukraine simply because they are a part of an alliance with Russia.

China would strongly oppose being linked into that group.


With that said if Ukraine wishes to join NATO that decision is for the Ukrainian people.


Which Ukrainian people the ones that supported the coup or the ones oustered by it?



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 01:54 AM
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This gets too much play; If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine, it would be over in about 10 days.

Nuff said.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 01:58 AM
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a reply to: notmyrealname

Since there was no coup I guess it has to be the ones who live there.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:04 AM
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originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: Xcathdra
Maybe I am wrong but when did Ukraine become part of NATO?

Why is NATO training supporting or anything else a non NATO member? Is that how that NATO thingy works?


Ukraine is a member of NATO's Partnership for Peace and part of that is joint training and exercises. Russia was a part as well before they went insane and also held joint training and exercises with NATO.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:14 AM
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originally posted by: notmyrealname
This gets too much play; If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine, it would be over in about 10 days.

Nuff said.


That is unlikely. It would require a complete call out of Russia reserves and retraining them as it is mostly made up of former one year conscripts. This is the same problem the Russian active forces have, only a third of them are professionals and the rest one year conscripts. Russia has had man power problems in Ukraine because it can use conscripts who are worthless and it has only small supply of professional soldiers. To get ready for a real invasion of Ukraine Russia would likely need a year to prepare. And in that year it would not go unnoticed. In fact the real problem may be when Ukraine decides that it is going to commit more that a small fraction of its forces in the East. It has done so far to avoid even more Russian troops being sent in. However as Russia's manpower problem gets worse they might decide to simply overwhelm the East and bet Russia has nothing to counter it. This would result in Russia likely pouring it conscripts into it and really bloody war starting unless of course they just refused to fight as has been the case in even professional units in Russia as of late.

Right now Russia would need a 6 to one advantage in man power to overwhelm and enemy and they simply do not have the trained bodies for it.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:34 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

It seems Russia's idea, or rather Putin's, of a peace process is one in which the process is Ukraine gives up, then there will be peace.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:37 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad

not to mention a response like you described from Russia would require Putin to admit to the Russia people Russian forces were present in Ukraine from the start, undermining Putin's "god like" status and exposing him as the liar he is to the Russian people.

The other thing they seem to ignore is the fact the remainder of Ukraine has no desire to have anything to do with Russia, so a Russian invasion would need to account for a massive occupation army to put down the resistance that would come. To do that Russia needs a much larger force than just to invade.

Also an all out Russian invasion of Ukraine would most likely push a lot of countries into openly assisting Ukraine with lethal aid, if not direct military support.


edit on 21-7-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:40 AM
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originally posted by: jaxnmarko
a reply to: Xcathdra

It seems Russia's idea, or rather Putin's, of a peace process is one in which the process is Ukraine gives up, then there will be peace.


Pretty much... Putin wants a long drawn out frozen conflict and for the other side to just give in. I don't think Ukraine is going to give in though and I think that is the wrench in the gears of Putins plans.

Russia likes to claim their occupation forces are in fact "peacekeepers". They tried that BS with East Ukraine, stating they would be more than willing to deploy Russian peacekeepers to settle things down. Putins mindset is stuck in the 1980's and doesn't seem to understand countries aren't going to just believe the lies like its the height of the cold war.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:44 AM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul
No coup, just a pep rally in Maidan that led to a new government; Check.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:47 AM
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originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul
No coup, just a pep rally in Maidan that led to a new government; Check.


Ukraine held parliamentary elections in 2012, which were recognized by Russia. That same group impeached Yanukovych per Ukraine's Constitution. Since then more Parliamentary elections and a Presidential election were held, all of which were accepted and recognized by Russia.

No coup occurred. Even Russia's actions bear that out.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:59 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad
If you are talking about an occupation after invasion that is one thing. That one thing is not a reasonable or likely goal of Russia. Overall militarily, Ukraine is at a complete disadvantage and has no chance of winning. Again that one thing is not a reasonable or likely goal of Russia. I have said before that it is in Russia's best interest to have a non NATO buffer like Ukraine in place. This whole scenario would not be taking place right now if it were not for western intervention and agitation.

It is getting boring to explain that there was no "invasion" by Russia into Ukraine however all of the armchair intelligence agencies in ATS are sure that there is and was. I guess I am the one out of touch and as such I will do my best not to bother with these threads for a while until some time has passed and all the experts here can be proven correct….

bah.




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