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Army Puts "Heros" in Jail

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posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 05:38 AM
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"Army Maj. Catherine Kaus spent Christmas Day in the Navy brig in San Diego as she has for past six months, serving a sentence for allowing her Ohio National Guard unit to scavenge three Army trucks so they could keep fuel and helicopter parts moving to troops in Iraq.
Kaus, who was awarded a Bronze Star in Operation Desert Storm in 1991, tried to get more trucks before her unit shipped out from Springfield, Ohio, to Kuwait. Military command couldn't come up with new vehicles for the 656th Transportation Company so when the unit came across two abandoned tractor-trailer rigs and a parts van during a 72-hour stopover in Kuwait, Kaus allegedly told five soldiers to Do what you got to do to make it happen. I just don't want to know about it."

www.spacedaily.com...

As has happened in every war those who show initiative and actual thinking are punished by the morons above. These "soldiers" should be given new medals and the idiots that punished them should be thrown out of the Army.




posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 05:53 AM
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I think what the army was mad about, was that the soldiers, after scavenging for parts, destroyed the remnants of the vehicles to cover their tracks. I'm not sure, but I seem to remember reading the opinion of some general or another who said something to the effect of -- those trucks should have been reclaimed and worked on so they could be salvaged instead of chopped up and discarded.

I'm not quoting, just remembering. In any case, I'm sure it was an overreaction on the part of command, like usual. But, on the other hand, getting lax with discipline during war time can have disatrous effects on the troops and their morale, so..

Ah hell, I don't know. This situation would never have taken place if America found a billion or so barrels worth of oil off the coast of nantucket.

A question..If the entire armed forces rebelled, and did stupid stuff all over Iraq, would they all get locked up? Or would command have to go easy on them in order to keep fighting the war?



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 06:00 AM
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This happens in every war. Some little guy in the line of fire makes the "Brass" look stupid and gets pounded for thinking. This is personal I just hate "Pentagon Brass". I had a CO once that actually did come over from "supply". The man was a "bean-counting" moron. Just like in the movie "heartbreak ridge".



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 06:02 AM
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Military discipline is very strict, but I'm sure a Soldier of her obvious ability will receive a fair hearing. The thing is this will need to be investigated and a Courts Martial convened. Keeping the Major in detention seems a bit harsh though. But saying that if it had been a non- commissioned officer that had done it they would have thrown him in the clink quick sharp.
The Army cannot be seen to play favorites, not even for a distinguished officer. She will receive the same fairness of justice as any other soldier I'm sure.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 06:35 AM
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I dont get it.Some woman orders her men to steal trucks from foreign country and after that they destroy them? Thats a war crime as any other.
-ap



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by aape
I dont get it.Some woman orders her men to steal trucks from foreign country and after that they destroy them? Thats a war crime as any other.
-ap


Here we go again with the WAR crimes garbage. WAR is a crime in itself unless you are on the winning side. Is that a true statement? BS this maj showed initiative that was her crime. The "Brass" AkA "morons in the pentagon" can't have that.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 08:05 AM
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One should never risk his life for a nation, because his life is more important than the nation it's self.

Don't join armies, who are controled by a few mind's who care nothing for the lives of the soilder's but their standing in history.

To join an army, is to be your own general. With nobody telling you what to do.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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Midnight requisition is as old as the military, but it is not officially condoned and getting caught carries heavy penalties. If she is convicted, she will be dealt with harshly, as this is definitely conduct unbecoming an officer.

There is really no scandal here. The woman clearly broke the terms of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and she will be dealt with accordingly. It's as simple as that.


[edit on 04/12/28 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Janus
Military discipline is very strict, but I'm sure a Soldier of her obvious ability will receive a fair hearing. The thing is this will need to be investigated and a Courts Martial convened.


According to the first article she has already been convicted and sentenced.Hardly a fair hearing if it happened that fast, would'nt ya say?

As I see it she was used as an example to others.

Frankly I am angry she was discharged and put in jail. She did not do anything that our militray did not do during the 2nd world war.

The best thing that can happen is pull all the lawyers off the front lines; wars are not won by them. They belong in court rooms, most of them have never been in actual combat Who are they to make combat decisions?




posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 09:00 AM
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Dr.Horacid I will have to agree with you on this one, is a shame, that things like this has to happened to our soldiers when they just looking after the well being of their own.

My husband said the government has some weird rules when it comes to certain actions, regardless if is to keep our troops safe, because that is not the way they see it.

What a shame, I guess our troops are just spendable to the government, but don't tell that to the family members of those soldiers.

Then I ask, where is the support of the people when things like this happend.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid

As has happened in every war those who show initiative and actual thinking are punished by the morons above. These "soldiers" should be given new medals and the idiots that punished them should be thrown out of the Army.





Amen to that. It's outrageous that this Pentagon has sent our forces into this quagmire without the equipment they need to sustain themselves from point A to B. I say the candy a$$ed brass at the top, safely tucked away at their posts in Fla., Qatar and D.C., oughtta be sent straight to Iraq. Wonder how they'd feel if it were their under-equipped a$$ on the line?


During Operations Desert Shield/Storm, to their great credit, our leaders ensured we had everything we needed. And.. my platoon's officer/test pilot was ordered to remain back at Ft. Campbell for the duration b/c he was on permanent profile (gunshot wounds to the leg in 'Nam). For Christmas, he (tha man) actually shipped us a HUEY jam packed with parts he had cannibalized for us off some other birds. It was amazing. No one ever busted him. As a matter of fact, when our unit returned, he retired; and our unit gave him a departing ceremony on the level of a Colonel. He had retired his rank of Captain (after his 1st tour in 'Nam); and wore the rank of CW4. He was one of the best officers I ever had. The point is, the man did what he had to do to make sure we had what we needed, budget or no budget. If only all our officers could be of that calibur.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
for allowing her Ohio National Guard unit to scavenge three Army trucks so they could keep fuel and helicopter parts moving to troops in Iraq.[...]
As has happened in every war those who show initiative and actual thinking are punished by the morons above. These "soldiers" should be given new medals and the idiots that punished them should be thrown out of the Army.

What, why? She stole government property and, more importantly, deprived another unit of the parts, fuel and protection that -it- needed. The article sort of gives the impression that they had come across a vehicle or something that was long abandoned, from some other war or junk or something, but no one can be that stupid as to arrest them for taking scrap that wasn't going to be used for something else.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

What, why? She stole government property and, more importantly, deprived another unit of the parts, fuel and protection that -it- needed. The article sort of gives the impression that they had come across a vehicle or something that was long abandoned, from some other war or junk or something, but no one can be that stupid as to arrest them for taking scrap that wasn't going to be used for something else.



Just curious. What would you have done if you had been in her position? I shouldn't have to remind you that this is life and death we're talking about; not abstracts on paper or field exercises at home. War demands nimble calibration. That does not come in any SOP manual. As Clint Eastwood said in "Heartbreak Ridge": IMPROVISE, ADAPT and OVERCOME.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 11:08 AM
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I'm not saying this is right , but you have to remember the top brass take flak for ever manovour good or bad the guys on the front do.
These guys look after the ENTIRE army not just one unit.

If you a squad leader and one of your troops steals a helmet off another squads member, is that ok? Is that fair?



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Just curious. What would you have done if you had been in her position?

I would not steal armour and supplies to cause someone else's death. My understand, and perhaps I am misunderstanding the situation, is that her crew took supplies for themselves that were intended for other use, for other units.


As Clint Eastwood said in "Heartbreak Ridge": IMPROVISE, ADAPT and OVERCOME.

Good movie, however, he didn't say 'steal from other units and let them die'.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan


ECK: As Clint Eastwood said in "Heartbreak Ridge": IMPROVISE, ADAPT and OVERCOME.

Good movie, however, he didn't say 'steal from other units and let them die'.


In war, it means what it means. The blame should be laid squarely at the feet of their command. There hasn't been an ounce of responsibility or accountability from zero day on. And heir Rumsfeld should have been fired long ago. He is beyond despicable for his deriliction of duty.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
In war, it means what it means. The blame should be laid squarely at the feet of their command. There hasn't been an ounce of responsibility or accountability from zero day on. And heir Rumsfeld should have been fired long ago. He is beyond despicable for his deriliction of duty.



So, do you think that there should be no accountability for the major who ordered her troops to "Do what you got to do to make it happen. I just don't want to know about it?"



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 07:32 PM
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Personally i think the blame should be laid at the feet of the Brass that gave her no other choice but to " Borrow " the equipment she needed.
But then short supply of equipment is as old as Midnight Requisition as Grady said.
Equipment shortages are not uncommon in War and the war in Iraq is no different.
If I'm not mistaken the Bronze Star that she holds is a Medal for bravery yes? She is obviously competent and cares for the welfare of her Soldiers, a Soldier cant ask anything else from his Commander.
Given the choice i would have done the same myself.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND


So, do you think that there should be no accountability for the major who ordered her troops to "Do what you got to do to make it happen. I just don't want to know about it?"




Well, Cool Hand, since you claim to be a military man, would you care to explain to us what you would do if it was your azz on the line, and it was your men and women going into the killzone?

It's really easy to say something as vapid as what you said above, when you've never actually been faced with combat and equipment and supply shortages. Perhaps you've been there; but I seriously doubt it.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by COOL HAND


So, do you think that there should be no accountability for the major who ordered her troops to "Do what you got to do to make it happen. I just don't want to know about it?"




Well, Cool Hand, since you claim to be a military man, would you care to explain to us what you would do if it was your azz on the line, and it was your men and women going into the killzone?

It's really easy to say something as vapid as what you said above, when you've never actually been faced with combat and equipment and supply shortages. Perhaps you've been there; but I seriously doubt it.


Had an M-16 once. gave it away......traded an armorer for a pump shotgun. Best thing I ever did. But they probably took it outa my back pay anyway.



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