What is magic?

originally posted by: Cinrad
Magic is the manipulation of another being with free will to act against their free will and in line with your will.

originally posted by: threeeyesopen
a reply to: infolurker

Right..because everyone who practices magick is self centred and only practices it for nefarious purposes..

Sooner or later, YES. No one is able to act with pure motive all the time, every time - even if they knew what the pure thing to do would be.

Like using ones body weight and momentum, and if they don't listen, it gonna hurt a lot, and it seems like it magic how the dude that doing doesn't break a sweat while the other guy/guys are in pain?

This describes how the term evolved and it's links to human nature.

Some people seem oblivious that at their core all religions are essentially practicing 'magic' eg. prayers to 'God', ministers /priests as designated spiritual guides with divine contact, eg as in ''infallibility'' of Popes, miracles, Saints etc.

That those under the 'spell' of religions often decree 'magic' as paganism is just irony of the highest order.

en.wikipedia.org...(paranormal)

Magic, or sorcery, is the use of rituals, symbols, actions, gestures and language that are believed to exploit supernatural forces.[1][2][3][4] Modern Western magicians generally state magic's primary purpose to be personal spiritual growth.[5]

The belief in and the practice of magic has been present since the earliest human cultures and continues to have an important spiritual, religious and medicinal role in many cultures today.[6][7] Magic is often viewed with suspicion by the wider community, and is sometimes practiced in isolation and secrecy.[4] In non-scientific societies, perceived magical attack is sometimes employed to explain personal or societal misfortune.[8]

The concept of magic as a category separate from religion was first widely recognized in Judaism, which derided as magic the practices of pagan worship designed to appease and receive benefits from gods other than Yahweh.[2] Wouter Hanegraaff argues that magic is in fact "a largely polemical concept that has been used by various religious interest groups either to describe their own religious beliefs and practices or – more frequently – to discredit those of others."[3]

The foremost perspectives on magic in anthropology are functionalist, symbolist and intellectualist. The term "magical thinking" in anthropology, psychology, and cognitive science refers to causal reasoning often involving associative thinking, such as the perceived ability of the mind to affect the physical world (see the philosophical problem of mental causation) or correlation mistaken for materialist causation. Psychological theories treat magic as a personal phenomenon intended to meet individual needs, as opposed to a social phenomenon serving a collective purpose.

The belief that one can influence supernatural powers, by prayer, sacrifice or invocation goes back to prehistoric religion and is present in early records such as the Egyptian pyramid texts and the Indian Vedas.[9] Magic and religion are categories of beliefs and systems of knowledge used within societies. Appearing in various tribal peoples from Aboriginal Australia and Māori New Zealand to the Amazon, African savannah, and pagan Europe, some form of shamanic contact with the spirit world seems to be nearly universal in the early development of human communities.

In general, the 20th century has seen a sharp rise in public interest in various forms of magical practice, and the foundation of a number of traditions and organisations, ranging from the distinctly religious to the philosophical.[citation needed]

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

And those who practiced magic and/or religion would of thought of any attempt at science was magic as well, where as more advanced science would be more tricky, and wouldn't know what it is and it it would challenge their Gods will as well...

"What kind of Sorcery(Trickery) is this?"

Science is a form of magic.
Look up the double slit experiment it demonstrates that your perception creates reality.
The same conclusion that underpins magic.
a reply to: Specimen

It is the trickster, both imagined and real.
Because reality is more than we imagine it to be.
There is more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio...
a reply to: chr0naut

a reply to: starswift

Ahhh, but reality can have a much greater affect on perception then perception has on reality. While true the double slit experiment your are trying to point out does serve as a great model as to perceive a balance between magic and science, like it was red and blue, never being able to mix being polar opposites in contrast, but they can really. Like looking at cup half full or half empty. A placebo affect seems more magical with the greater understanding of the science on biology that comes out these days due to how it still defies understanding, where as ancient wisdom on perception it better to not question and let God worry about it.

To believe in magic is childish and foolish to scientific, hardcore standards but yet they believe they found God, where as fearing science has possibly been around since the beginning of civilization from both magic or religious practitioners, where as it could saved millions by teaching understanding.

a reply to: Specimen

Science is a term that has also evolved from trades, skills, knowledge, alchemy and philosophy though is essentially the testing and gathering of knowledge, often using methodology and under specific test conditions.

'Magic' relies on faith and belief in that which is unseen and untestable.

en.wikipedia.org...

The word comes from the Latin scientia, "knowledge, a knowing; expertness," from sciens (genitive scientis) "intelligent, skilled," present participle of scire "to know," probably originally "to separate one thing from another, to distinguish," related to scindere "to cut, divide", from PIE root *skei- "to cut, to split".

From late 14c. in English as "book-learning," also "a particular branch of knowledge or of learning;" also "skillfulness, cleverness; craftiness. From c. 1400 as "experiential knowledge;" also "a skill, handicraft; a trade." From late 14c. as "collective human knowledge" (especially "that gained by systematic observation, experiment, and reasoning). Modern (restricted) sense of "body of regular or methodical observations or propositions concerning a particular subject or speculation" is attested from 1725; in 17c.-18c. Sense of "non-arts studies" is attested from 1670s.

Science in a broad sense existed before the modern era, and in many historical civilizations.[7] Modern science is distinct in its approach and successful in its results: 'modern science' now defines what science is in the strictest sense of the term.[8]

Science in its original sense is a word for a type of knowledge, rather than a specialized word for the pursuit of such knowledge. In particular it is one of the types of knowledge which people can communicate to each other and share. For example, knowledge about the working of natural things was gathered long before recorded history and led to the development of complex abstract thinking. This is shown by the construction of complex calendars, techniques for making poisonous plants edible, and buildings such as the pyramids. However no consistent conscientious distinction was made between knowledge of such things which are true in every community and other types of communal knowledge, such as mythologies and legal systems.

Magic is manipulation of the subconscious mind and that universal source we all come from.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Funny that, I always thought magic was knowledge based to the point one commands or understands the laws between Heaven and Earth, instead of believing in ones self, or others.

If anything, magic just might as well been a primitive form of science, almost like how religions a primitive form of edumication.

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Funny that, I always thought magic was knowledge based to the point one commands or understands the laws between Heaven and Earth, instead of believing in ones self, or others.

If anything, magic just might as well been a primitive form of science, almost like how religions a primitive form of edumication.

I wonder where the idea of magic itself came to the world. Maybe from rituals to please the gods, i dunno. Outside illusionism and real magic (aka: rabbit in the hat). It seems to be the manipulation of the world in your favor.

I created an account just to point all of you who are curious about magick towards some real information free of fluff(mostly). I am not a native english speaker so excuse me if my english seems stiff and formal, it's been coloured by reading many english books.

I had a pull towards magick from childhood, and started practicising about 7 years ago. Here are some of the things I have learned, and that I consider atleast subjectivly valid for me.

Magick doesn't turn the world on it's head to achieve a goal. Theres no blinding flashes of light and happenings defying natural laws. Rather, when you observe a spell or spirit working to reach a goal you have set, it looks from afar like a series of somewhat improbable events tumbling towards the desired outcome. Well within the realm of possibility, but improbable. Like luck.

Example, I wanted to buy a farm a few years ago. I had no capital or savings. I had no job at the time and was sick of looking for another job, so I wanted a farm as a base to grow a business and become my own boss. I did a long devotional ritual to several archangels, Ganesha the opener of roads, the current of Jupiter for wealth and expansion in life, and a general expansion of wealth, and the current of Venus for securing a home where me and my fiancee could live in love and happiness. As an offering I promised that I would climb a mountain behind the house we rented and leave a rifle I had built from scratch at the summit. It was my most beloved item, one I had spents months pouring energy, love and money into.

The ritual took about 10-15 minutes a day for 1.5 months, and I followed up the spiritual work with physical work, writing applications to every financial institution under the sun. And by the end of it a letter arrived in the mail announcing that we had secured a loan for the full sum, at the lowest possible interest rate. With no cash, and no job, I got a loan big enough to secure a farm, and not only that, we got a herd of sheep for free as part of the deal which I have grown to 4 times it's original size and now make a good living from.

There were more costs however, not just the rifle, which I true to my word left ontop of the mountain in the middle of a november storm the same day I got the letter. Before this I had an aversion to paperwork and bureaucracy, I was lazy, and I had an unhealthy and rather dismissive relationship to money and monetary matters.

The stress and enourmous amounts of work writing loan applications and later building a business from scratch has been a crucible, an alchemical process, burning these faults away from my personality. It was rough, like breaking your back rough, but strength and guidance was given from the same forces that, really, I asked to put me in that position.

Magick gives you power, but it also forces you to grow. If you crave power but you are afraid to grow, then magick will twist and distort you. If you are willing to grow, to become more like the divine blueprint of a human, then magick will help and guide you. Every spell is a path to walk, ever action has reprecussions, every reprecussion is a chance for overcoming.


For those interested, google studio arcanis.

I see you researched your background but I wonder if you have transcended your methods.
A materialist interpretation is never a superior interpretation.
What if everything you experience is a manifestation of your mind so is a type of meta illusion,
Where is your science then but perhaps just thought forms with predictable consequences?
Interesting experiments have been done on the ability of mental focus being able to change the past to effect the present as well. Most people lead highly materialistic lives so that is where the mental focus is, kind of a blinder effect.
Of course the 800 pound invisible figure in this equation is the ego construct that perpetuates itself through the mental habit of argumentation. If there was no argument what would you have? Would you be able to identify "science" then?
How about the science of religion? But the last was my digression.
I'm sure these thoughts are know to you, but who is the you that thinks them, scientifically speaking of course.
a reply to: Specimen

Arthur C Clark said it best I think. Although, it slants a bit towards sci-fi genre and away from fantasy genre.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Check out this Papua New Guinea tribesman's reaction to simple everyday items. I thought it was a interesting. I'd love to know what he is thinking and hear the stories he tells back home.

a reply to: ByteChanger
Ugh! Knew I got the quote wrong. Meh, still works IMO

a reply to: gell1234

Magic is manipulation. A hiding. A simple role play.

Manipulating others, for money or fame...which amounts to the same thing unless one is habitually lazy.

It's a dangerous path,even pushing it to the best perspective...it's a deception not truth.

Interacting positively with what is here and now, moves mountains...just not always the ones you expect.

Reality can sometimes look like magic as well, you just need to learn to dance with water.

Every push I made had an opposite and equale result. It's simple relativity. Moving past this is the real magic.

It changes your perspective to mostly understand the truth on a much more micro level, the more you know the more the consequences.

Seems almost like a simple equation, but then there is always disagreement.

You want magic? Seek truth and it will be handed to you.


Cheers.

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior
a reply to: ByteChanger
Ugh! Knew I got the quote wrong. Meh, still works IMO

That is okay, I had to edit it like 3 times to get it right.

Magic is all around and within you.

a reply to: gell1234
Magic could be the secretive and slightly selfish control of your mind body and spirit in unison, acting as the God you are, to create or manifest pathways and open doors in your life for the benefit of you, quite miraclously to the eyes of observers.

Step one: loose all superstitions and religion that could be handicapping your "self"

Step two: the power of your mind. Positive thinking or sometimes, unfortunatly, negative thinking.

You are your own god. You are God.

I believe that magic is an archaic word for technology, and we are recovering from a massive dark age. Imagine that the entire system fails and we loose everything, now explain to your great grand children how an iPad or aeroplane work. Could the akashic records be an ancient internet and magical energy be electricity? A magic wand would be much like a remote control, which is pointed at a dark board and images appear.

a reply to: twentyoneawatcher

Although I personally belive that magic is much more than that I agree that historically you may be correct.

What is mundane to us would be magical even 100 years ago, a magic box that allows you to talk to someone hundreds of miles away?

I think that is were the legend of dragons came from, A huge winged creature that breathes fire and destruction and with scales that cannot be penatrated with arrows? Sounds exactly like an airplane to me!