Ukrainian Government Acknowledges that Some of Its Leaders Are Nazis

a reply to: YouPeople

Why does anyone here need to explain such a thing? Nobody is claiming such a thing.

Good! Then we agree that the Neo-Nazis running Donetsk are bad, and that Cyberberkut is a fascist terror organization?

The only reason you are pushing this is because it would somehow cancel out the info in the OP. Apparently you feel this is necessary.

Not cancel, balance. Are you opposed to balanced reporting? Object to objectivity? Russian propagandists keep harping on a handful of Neo-Nazis in Kyiv who served very briefly in government. (Note that the hit piece in globalresearch seems to imply that they are still in office. All of the Svoboda ministers resigned after the election.) On the other hand, Donbass is dominated by Neo-Nazis: that is a subject of concern.

a reply to: YouPeople

The actual source is an Ukranian news site.

And you read what is said on that site correct?

The first paragraph shows what the article was about...

Ministry of Justice of Ukraine has officially recognized that the members of the Ukrainian nationalist organization UNA-UNSO during the Great Patriotic War fought on the side of Nazi Germany.

Do you know when the Great Patriotic War happened?

Do yourself a favor and learn it...

www.marxists.org...

It was during WWII...

But you know this right, and if you do what your doing with this thread is called what?

Are you.....guys saying that the Ukranian justice department did not admit to this?

No as it has been known for many decades that some Ukrainians fought along side the Nazi's, but what your doing is trying to leave out parts of the whole story to make it look as though they are talking about now...which they aren't.

Ukrainian Government Acknowledges that Some of Its Leaders Are Nazis

The true headline from your link...

The Ministry of Justice has recognized the organization UNA-UNSO Nazi collaborators

Always trying to obfuscate things.

You mean just like you did with this thread?

a reply to: YouPeople

Any history book will tell me that the Ukranian justice department released this info?

No, all the Ukrainian Justice Department is doing is acknowledging what is in the history books. It means that the right factions have lost so much influence that they are starting to be viewed as criminals.

So who is spinning it then?

The Kremlin. This acknowledgement of historical fact is the right's obituary; Russian propagandists are using the announcement to present the right as vital.

a reply to: DJW001

Good! Then we agree that the Neo-Nazis running Donetsk are bad, and that Cyberberkut is a fascist terror organization?

Do you agree that the Neo-Nazis running Ukraine are bad?

a reply to: YouPeople

The topic is that the Ukranian justice department acknowledged these nazi ties. I see at least three people trying to steer this thread away from its topic.

And that topic has nothing to do with what the OP is implying.

In fact let's look at what the OP said shall we...

New Ukrainian government with admitted nazi members (from horses mouth see link)

Now you post this link as though it backs what the OP is saying and it doesn't.

In fact other than that rag of a source glabalresearch where in your link does it say that the new Ukrainian government has Nazi's in it...I think someone is telling a bit of a fib, and I know who it is.

The funny thing is I proved the OP source lied about Yarosh being given the SBU head job in 2014, so anything after that is highly questionable and you jumped on that wagon without actually researching what was the truth...but of course you linked to something that helps prove the OP was wrong...good job, he should thank you.

a reply to: YouPeople

Do you agree that the Neo-Nazis running Ukraine are bad?

There aren't any...but feel free to name them.

And Yarosh isn't in a position that allows him anything close to running the country.

originally posted by: YouPeople
a reply to: DJW001

Good! Then we agree that the Neo-Nazis running Donetsk are bad, and that Cyberberkut is a fascist terror organization?

Do you agree that the Neo-Nazis running Ukraine are bad?

There are no longer any Neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian government. There are still a few extreme right wingers in parliament, and I don't like their political philosophy. I detest Right Sektor's and Svoboda's agendas, but they no longer have much influence. On the other hand, the separatists holding Ukrainians hostage in the East proudly fly the Eurasian Fascist flag. They have destroyed their homeland.

a reply to: DJW001

On the other hand, the separatists holding Ukrainians hostage in the East proudly fly the Eurasian Fascist flag. They have destroyed their homeland.

But that's okay as long as they fight against Ukraine they are good.

So called Nazi in Ukraine = bad

Nazi's fighting against Ukraine = good

Gotta love twisted logic.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And you read what is said on that site correct?

Yes. I said "Nazi ties".

Did GlobalResearch misrepresent that qoute? They used the exact same qoute.

Granted, the Op's title issomewhat different. For anyone not going out of his way to defend a certain narrative it is clear that these people are still neo nazis because they obviously support the ideology.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

But that's okay as long as they fight against Ukraine they are good. So called Nazi in Ukraine = bad Nazi's fighting against Ukraine = good Text

In the ideal case they would both be seen as bad.

Agreed.

Both the "pro russian nazis" and the Ukranian or pro Ukranian nazis are bad.

Agreed.

Now are western governments supporting the "pro russian nazis"?

No.

But they are supporting the Ukranian nazis.

So how do you guys justify that your government is supporting these nazis?

I mean you guys think that the "pro Russian nazis" are bad, so the Ukranian nazis must be bad too.

Why are supporting them?

This is what the OP asked actually.

Bringing in "pro Russian nazis" doesn't answer this question and is only derailing the thread.

The question is why is Amerika supporting these nazis.

a reply to: YouPeople

Granted, the Op's title issomewhat different. For anyone not going out of his way to defend a certain narrative it is clear that these people are still neo nazis because they obviously support the ideology.

Which people? The ones who cannot win a seat in Kyiv or the ones who dominate Donetsk?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: notmyrealname

Flattering as it is to be the subject of so much attention, I am not the subject of this thread. Please explain why it is okay to be a Neo-Nazi provided you are Pro-Russian?

I was not speaking about you.

a reply to: YouPeople

Both the "pro russian nazis" and the Ukranian or pro Ukranian nazis are bad.

Agreed.

Thank you.

Now are western governments supporting the "pro russian nazis"?

No.

Correct; but Russia is. If Russia is supporting Nazis, doesn't that make them bad, too?

But they are supporting the Ukranian nazis.

No they're not. The OP did not provide any evidence that the United States is in any way supporting Nazi parties.

So how do you guys justify that your government is supporting these nazis?

It isn't. Why is your government supporting the Nazis in Donetsk.

I mean you guys think that the "pro Russian nazis" are bad, so the Ukranian nazis must be bad too.

You will note that I differentiate between people and philosophies. Good people can be seduced by bad philosophies. Given a chance, they might eventually see the error of their ways. Calling people bad is alienating and thus the first step towards dehumanization and hatred. Nazi philosophy is bad, and the people who have been seduced by it need to beeducated.

Why are supporting them?

No-one is supporting the Neo-Nazis in Western Ukraine. In fact, they have steadily been dwindling in influence. Yarosh's share of the vote was negligible:

telegraf.com.ua...

This is what the OP asked actually.

I thought the OP was just trying to claim that Nazi collaborators are now running the Ukrainian government.

Bringing in "pro Russian nazis" doesn't answer this question and is only derailing the thread.

But the Pro-Russian Nazis are much more important to the future of Ukraine, and may be the spark that sets off war in Europe.

The question is why is Amerika supporting these nazis.

The answer is "they're not."

a reply to: YouPeople

In the ideal case they would both be seen as bad.

Nobody has said it isn't.

Now are western governments supporting the "pro russian nazis"?

I think that is obvious isn't it?

But they are supporting the Ukranian nazis.

See now your making assumptions that you can't actually back with evidence...as far as the government there goes. As there are no Nazi's in the Ukrainian government that can do anything that could influence the way the country is run.

But I see you leave the discussion of those fighting for the separatists alone...why is that?

So how do you guys justify that your government is supporting these nazis?

As it has been asked already...which ones, names would be nice?

This is what the OP asked actually.

And yet there are none running the Ukraine government...which btw is what the OP is implying, are you saying he isn't?

In fact the headline is even a lie...

Ukrainian Government Acknowledges that Some of Its Leaders Are Nazis

As I said before only the rag of a source he used said that not the Ukrainian government. They acknowledge that they corroborated in WWII they didn't say they have Nazi's in the new government now.

Bringing in "pro Russian nazis" doesn't answer this question and is only derailing the thread.

I see it is okay for them to be running things in the separatist movement in Ukraine...but when brought up it's derailing a thread about neo Nazi's in Ukraine...interesting.

The question is why is Amerika supporting these nazis.

No the question is can you name these so called Nazi's that are running the Ukrainian government...because that is in fact the premise of this thread, so I will await the names that are the Nazi's running Ukraine.

a reply to: DJW001

I thought the OP was just trying to claim that Nazi collaborators are now running the Ukrainian government.

He is, and others seem to be jumping on the old bandwagon without actually knowing the facts.

The party was founded in 1991 as the Social-National Party of Ukraine (Ukrainian: Соціал-національна партія України) and acts as a populist proponent of nationalism and anti-communism. It is positioned on the right of the Ukrainian political spectrum,[2][15][16][17] particularly in the far right.[4][18][19][20] It is widely considered a fascist and/or anti-semitic party,[21][22][23][24][25][26][27] while others have disputed the neo-fascist label, and simply considers it a radical nationalist party.[28][29]

a reply to: DJW001

What about the party that is now named "Svoboda"?

a reply to: YouPeople

What about the party that is now named "Svoboda"?

As I have kept explaining:

In the late October 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election the party won constituency 6 seats; the party came 0,29% short to overcome the 5% threshold to win seats on the nationwide list.[12] The parties election results thus halved compared with the 2012 election because of negative assessments of the activities of the local governments that included Svoboda members.[113] In its former stronghold Lviv Oblast Svoboda won no constituencies.[113] Also the fact that in this election the party was not the only one using radically patriotic, anti-communist and anti-Russian slogans undermined its election outcome.[113]

On 12 November 2014 the party's ministers in the Yatsenyuk Government resigned (they became acting ministers till a new Government was formed).[14] The parties governors of Poltava Oblast, Ternopil Oblast and Rivne Oblast also resigned and were formally dismissed by President Petro Poroshenko on 18 November 2014.[114]

Your own source.

globalresearch.com writes as though the interim Svoboda ministers in the Interior and Defense Ministries still held office. They do not. The only Neo-Nazis with any influence over Ukrainian affairs are the ones Russia is supporting in the East.

a reply to: YouPeople

globalresearch.com writes as though the interim Svoboda ministers in the Interior and Defense Ministries still held office. They do not. The only Neo-Nazis with any influence over Ukrainian affairs are the ones Russia is supporting in the East.

They sure were in the goverment in the period before and after MH17 was shot down, and in that period they sure received a lot of support from America, among others.

It's not like such a thing did not happen recently.

a reply to: DJW001

Why is your government supporting the Nazis in Donetsk.

It isn't. It is supporting the Ukranian nazis, like your government.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

He is, and others seem to be jumping on the old bandwagon without actually knowing the facts.

The fact is that they were in the government that the US was supporting. You guys are trying to bury this fact by saying "but they are not anymore right now".

Too late.