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How We Know Russia Shot Down MH17

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posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:14 AM
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As always readers will need to decide for themselves about the accuracy of the information / argument being presented. Its an interesting read and does a decent job of sourcing their points.


How We Know Russia Shot Down MH17


It’s been a year since Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot out of the sky, killing all 298 civilians onboard. The results of the official inquiry have yet to be released, and while the fact that this Boeing 777 was immolated has not been disputed, various theories have been floated by the Ukrainian government, the Russian government, and other interested parties as to how it was and who ultimately bears responsibility for this tragedy.

The vast majority of the evidence adds credibility to the theory that an anti-aircraft Buk missile launcher, controlled by either Russian soldiers or Russian-backed fighters and fired from a field south of the town of Snezhnoye, destroyed the commercial airliner. The Buk is an advanced weapons system capable of destroying military aircraft or even ballistic missiles at an altitude up to 82,000 feet, and so its presence on Ukraine’s battlefield was always set to change both the scope and intensity of the conflict. But it suspiciously arrived in the arsenal of the Russian-backed fighters at a time when the Ukrainian military was making rapid gains and was perhaps closing in on a military solution to the conflict.


Click link for remainder of article...

This topic is pretty much wide open for debate / discussion about the info provided. Instead of me trying to present what is in the article I leave it to the readers themselves so they can draw their own conclusion.


Interestingly enough, in 2014, Putin called for a UN investigation into the incident. In 2015 Putin states its not appropriate...
edit on 18-7-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:24 AM
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So... now we know what we all already knew we knew...
...but what happens?

Nothing.
Nothing at all.
Perhaps some mildly feigned 'outrage' on news outlets... but nobody will hold Russia accountable.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:24 AM
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It is safe to say that the general public is not likely to hear about this matter in a factual manner for quite some time. What we can be sure of is that the US, EU and Russia all have the exact data of what has happened and will not disclose it. Our current system of cat and mouse dictates that it is better to hold the truth for a time or a threat that will give a party more leverage. Blurting out the truth wastes an opportunity to gain leverage over a situation for greater potential gain.

So what do we do? I say we look at the evidence we do have and we extrapolate the parties that had the most to gain from it. This leads me to believe that the Ukraine would have the most to benefit and Russia would have next to nothing to benefit for this action.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:32 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:35 AM
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Sadly Russia has self-implicated themselves by directing their propaganda machine to pump out myriad alternative theories, that just muddied the waters. In the days after the tragedy, Russian state-owned media was working overtime to push the "it was the Ukrainians who did it, look, we've got the bad GCI satellite images to prove it, and amateur forensic evidence that we just made up"!

Methinks Russia protests too much. If they want the truth, then they should be supporting efforts to uncover the truth rather than whining-on and obstructing! Support the International Tribunal.


Speaking with the Dutch prime minister, Mark Rutte, on Thursday, Russian president Vladimir Putin argued against the “prematureness and counterproductiveness” of creating such a tribunal, according to a Kremlin statement.


Guardian source

Even today RT.com are still suggesting it was "fighter jets"! So Russia are refusing to support due process and using their propaganda machine to push an alternative view. If the Russian authorities are so clear on their version, then they need to participate in the International Tribunal and release all "their" evidence. I wonder why this is seems to be an intractable problem. Maybe there's no evidence, except what RT.com can make up. If anyone has kids, they'll understand this tactic of denial.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:49 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:51 AM
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a reply to: paraphi

I saw they were going back to the Su25 story however I don't understand why. Why go back after parading the makers of the BUK in front of the media while claiming a BUK in fact brought down MH17. They already trotted out experts on the SU25.

I also fail to understand why Russia wont support a UN tribunal.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:52 AM
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a reply to: paraphi

If i was accused of a heinous crime as part of a Western propaganda campaign designed to bring me into disrepute and scupper trade deals and effectively bring my finances to a standstill..i would be protesting much more than too much mate.

And so would just about any other innocent when accused of such a crime.

Russia uses propaganda of course, but doesn't come close to the levels the US and Europe has employed against Russia over this affair.

I'm frankly ashamed at the ineptitude the West has shown over this whole affair...in fact during the last decade or so, Western black ops, international propaganda and psyops have taken a decidedly inferior turn of late...we in the West should have had this debacle of a smear against Russia planned, set up, instigated, the blame passed along and solid and unambiguous and inescapable proof in place (well before the event of course) a long time ago...shoddy intel work IMO.

Must be the austerity and cutbacks, even psyops divisions have to do better with less money these days i suppose, but it shows.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:54 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:00 AM
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originally posted by: MysterX
I'm frankly ashamed at the ineptitude the West has shown over this whole affair...in fact during the last decade or so, Western black ops, international propaganda and psyops have taken a decidedly inferior turn of late...


Except the evidence of the actions of the "West" contradicts your view. As far as I can see the only people who don't want the truth exposed are the Russians. I wonder why.

An International Tribunal, with Russian involvement, is the only approach. It seems to me Russia has invested so much energy in denial that any actual positive involvement is now impossible.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:09 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't get it... Why don't we just wait what the official dutch investigation reveals?

I hear it is in fact completed and currently sent to the remaining international parties to comment on... confidentiality of the report should be lifted soon, as long as those parties agree ofc.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:28 AM
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a reply to: paraphi

If, as i highly suspect, this is a particularly callous and grisly staged event with which to besmirch Russia / topple Putin...it's shoddy work..patently so.

You speak of evidence and truth?

Both are easily manufactured, as an experienced political spectator such as yourself really ought to realise. Especially so with the power at the fingertips of the players involved. It's a high stakes macabre poker game, and the West obviously has more than a few tells.

Russia knows they have been set up, they knew the hit was in back during the 'by proxy' Kiev riots...and all those sniper hits on both factions, although even they probably wouldn't have envisaged a passenger aircraft, full of innocents being taken out as part of the plan. It was too much and too loose to stick...and those people on board the aircraft paid with their lives. Just like the THREE (count 'em) chemical weapons stitch up atrocities in Syria was used as a prelude to bombing the hell out of the place..the red line and all that jazz. That failed too...and then as if by magic, the shopkeeper appeared and produced ISIS, IS, ISIL, (Whatever) brand of terror to change tack and replace the three failed chemical weapons psyops.

And low and behold, here we are, the West bombing the hell out of Syria..how convenient for us that ISIS came alone right at the opportune time. It's like glass, it's inept and if it wasn't so bloody heinously outrageous, it would be embarrassing.

Russia was becoming too powerful at a time when the West was in pain..they needed to be choked, squeezed and hindered. And so, the shopkeeper appeared and boom...an coup is sponsored in Ukraine, Russia predictably defends her interests, an airliner is brought down, and the fix is in..and here we all are, both propagandising the events and exposing that propaganda.

If my country's intel services deemed it necessary to slow Russia down, i have NO problem with that...international politics being the quagmire that is often is, they would know infinitely better that i what is required or not...i DO have a problem with innocents being murdered and used as charred, smashed pawns in these campaigns though and this is what i rail against.

I don't know Russians, never been there, probably never will go there...but i can detect the smell of corruption from a long way off, and love them or loathe them, Russia has most certainly and most transparently been set up by the West and it stinks of rotting corpses.

They should have used a different tack, used methods while shady, were still worthy of us..taking out hundreds of innocent people to be used as a tool to whack Russia is most certainly not worthy.
edit on 18-7-2015 by MysterX because: typo



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:35 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Article you posted is propaganda nothing more

You can tell by reading how they make all other points about Russia being the bad guy on Assumption alone

This is standard western media type article that sings the tune of Russia bad, US and Ukranian nazis Good

Here are the real facts on who US is backing

www.globalresearch.ca...
edit on 18-7-2015 by LostAndFound2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:36 AM
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a reply to: paraphi




Sadly Russia has self-implicated themselves by directing their propaganda machine to pump out myriad alternative theories, that just muddied the waters. In the days after the tragedy, Russian state-owned media was working overtime to push the "it was the Ukrainians who did it, look, we've got the bad GCI satellite images to prove it, and amateur forensic evidence that we just made up"!


Odd, I don't recall seeing much of this Russian "propaganda Machine"....though I do recall seeing a massive western propaganda campaign the very next day.."Putin Killed My Baby" and "Putin's Missile" and the like in basically every western media outlet......almost before the pieces of aircraft had stopped falling. Strange how they all knew who the culprit was within hours of the event.....



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:46 AM
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a reply to: LostAndFound2

Funny that you would post complaining about propaganda and then post a link to Globalresearch. Their hardline anti-West stance has been obvious for a while and have been caught lying numerous times.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:47 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


The vast majority of the evidence adds credibility to the theory that an anti-aircraft Buk missile launcher, controlled by either Russian soldiers or Russian-backed fighters and fired from a field south of the town of Snezhnoye, destroyed the commercial airliner.

Thats the same crap they been saying, again without displaying the real evidence like black box (state secrets, I guess), witness testimony and evidence of cannon holes in the side of the cockpit from another aircraft.

Timely revisit considering the new information about that recently vetted. Just reminding everyone of the 'official truth', xcthadra?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:48 AM
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a reply to: paraphi


Sadly Russia has self-implicated themselves by directing their propaganda machine to pump out myriad alternative theories, that just muddied the waters. In the days after the tragedy,

I though the Western main stream media was accusing Putin before they even put out the smoldering wreckage?



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:49 AM
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a reply to: Flatcoat

And Putin made his views quite clear when he stated shortly after the incident that regardless of who the guilty party was Ukraine was to blame.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:50 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I am sure you think everyone forgot how Malaysian plane was told to go ahead and fly over a war zone where just days before a large military plane was brought down

Even if Russian Separatist did bring it down (and that's 50/50)

they were set up by our lovely planners and thinkers at cia and pentagon with the help of those wonderful bandera loving ukies
edit on 18-7-2015 by LostAndFound2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 04:51 AM
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The utter confusion on the ground is not enough to say who did it.

Clearly, someone was shooting down something.
There were reports of multiple aircraft in the air and being shot down.

There's nothing here to say someone didn't shoot it down deliberately at the same time Russia tried to shoot something down, just to blame Russia.

I think Russia rebels did it accidentally, but there's no proof of this yet.

Also, your opening thread is obviously bias, your fake attempt at being neutral is pretty tacky.



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