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The Real Meaning of Shariah Law

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posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

alright your trying to refute me with facts from a website that has taken facts from other sufi websites?


I am offering up evidence from scholars both in our time and in the past .



When I first became Muslim I was interested in Sufism most notably deobandi aqeedah .

But then I started seeing things that didn't make sens , things that were not in the quran and sunna , things that were made up this is called bid'ah ( innovation of scripture ) .

Sufi's do things like grave worship , where they call upon the dead to send messages to Allah and Muhammad .

This is called Shirk . This negates the tawheed ( the worship of allah as one , with no partners ).

again calling upon other than allah is Shirk. This constitutes disbelief.

Islam is simple , Believe In Allah and his messenger ,seek closeness to allah through his established prayer , follow the sunna .

All this other stuff that has infected islam is the cancer of this religion .

Not all the stuff is bad , but if Allah did not speak about it in the quran or the prophet did not speak upon it or do it , then their is no room for it in Islam .


These types of actions cause division within the religion .

If you would like see refutations from the most qualified scholars of our time I will be happy to give them to you , but for me to sit here and go over every single reason as to why Sufism full of bid'ah and shirk it would take a long time .


even sufi's them selfs don't know fully where it originated from , yet they say "this is islam"

from a sufi wbsite


There is disagreement among religious scholars and Sufis themselves about the origins of Sufism. The traditional view is that Sufism is the mystical school of Islam and had its beginnings in the first centuries following the life of the Prophet Mohammad. Indeed, most Sufis in the world today are Muslim and many of them would consider a non-Islamic Sufism impossible.

There is another view, however, that traces the pre-Islamic roots of Sufism back through the early Christian mystics of Syria and Egypt, to the Essenes, the ancient Pythagorean orders, and the mystery schools of the Egyptians and Zoroastrians, among others. It is these roots that gathered into the trunk known as Islamic Sufism.

Sufi Inayat Khan recognized the multi-religious roots of Sufism as well as its contemporary relevance for people of all faiths. When he was instructed by his teacher in 1907 to bring Sufism to the West, he articulated a "message of spiritual liberty" which reflects the universal, inclusive nature of Sufism. As he noted:

"Every age of the world has seen awakened souls, and as it is impossible to limit wisdom to any one period or place, so it is impossible to date the origin of Sufism."

sufiway.org...
what a mystic lineage .....
edit on 06/17/2015 by Kapusta because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 02:26 AM
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a reply to: Willtell

I have read about 25% of the Hadith. Whichever one I downloaded, I knkw their are several versions. Everything positive in the Hadith can also be found in the Koran.

I see the Hadith as a Zionist tool similar to the Talmud. They both teach opposing views to the Holy Spirit.
edit on 18-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 02:40 AM
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I see this thread as a proof on the duality that exists within those who call themselves Muslim and that some want Universal peace while others want to change all to their view (even if their view is objectively logically and morally flawed).

The curse of Muhammad:s duality teaching propagating thru the ages. The Sufi Mystics who pushes for non duality and want oneness with god being told they are disconnected from god by Muslim faith followers that cannot handle anyone transcending Muhammad:s teachings.

Islam will always have an internal and external hate within it as long as it does not grow up spiritually. But then Islam is closely follower in need of growing up with Judaism and Christian (Paulism).



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 02:45 AM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Willtell

I have read about 25% of the Hadith. Whichever one I downloaded, I knkw their are several versions. Everything positive in the Hadith can also be found in the Koran.

I see the Hadith as a Zionist tool similar to the Talmud. They both teach opposing views to the Holy Spirit.


And I see the negative you see in the Hadith already in the Quran. Easily measured duality if you want to see it objectively.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Willtell

I have read about 25% of the Hadith. Whichever one I downloaded, I knkw their are several versions. Everything positive in the Hadith can also be found in the Koran.

I see the Hadith as a Zionist tool similar to the Talmud. They both teach opposing views to the Holy Spirit.



huh ? respectfully but you say you have read 25% of hadith ,but you don'y know from what book ?

25% is allot that's more then i have covered in 4 years of being Muslim.

you say it teaches opposing views to the holy sprite ? this is Islam not Christianity we dont have the concept of a "holy spirit" would negate the tawheed . (oneness of Allah) .

can you elaborate a little more please .
edit on 06/17/2015 by Kapusta because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: FyreByrd

Well look up Christian stuff and you'll get a variety of answers because Christians don't agree on their own religion.

Googling Islam/Muslim might give you some basic surface understanding but, that's about it.





eyes on your avatar are familiar , strangely.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 11:16 PM
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a reply to: Kapusta

You are correct Allah is One. Which is why the following verses cannot be about Allah, but about a Holy Spirit. The link is from an Islamic site, you can read more there.



1- The Role of the Holy Spirit in Islam:

There are two roles that the Holy Spirit is responsible for according to Islam:

1- It creates our "spirits." Allah Almighty uses it to blow into our mothers' wombs our human-spirits. That is why abortion is prohibited in Islam, because the fetus or foetus does have spirit (life) and it is a human being. It's not just a little piece of unliving flesh:

"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (The Noble Quran, 32:9)"

"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 38:72)"

"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 15:29)"

"And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples. (The Noble Quran, 21:91)"

"And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants). (The Noble Quran, 66:12)" ]

www.answering-christianity.com...


The Spirit breathed into us is not Allah himself, but a Holy Spirit created by Allah for the purpose of guiding men. You are to follow the Holy Spirit within you but worship only Allah.



Surah 5:46 and the Evangel

46. In their footsteps, We sent Jesus son of
Mary, fulfilling the Torah that preceded
him; and We gave him the Evangel(Holy Spirit), where-in is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that preceded him, and guidance and counsel for the righteous.


Jesus came with the Evangel, Holy Spirit, from Allah. Because Jesus is the Christ and the Christ is the Holy Spirit, or Evangel. This is why he is called Messiah, the same title given the Christ in the bible.

This is why Jesus calls God his father in the bible. The trinity does not exist in the Bible, only God the father and his son, who is Jesus in the Flesh and Christ in the Spirit. He has two names because he has two roles.

I have read a few hundred pages of Hadith. Whatever percentage that is.

edit on 18-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 11:26 PM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

And I see negatively in YOU as you refute an entire religion that you have no comprehension of.

If you have read the Koran I am certain you read a very biased interpretation. If you really want to debate the Koran use the interpretation in the link below. Otherwise you can't understand the Koran, because many interpretations have a bias that changes the entire meaning.

Here is a link to a free download.
www.holybooks.com...

You could read a non biased interpretation, Or you could keep bashing God's prophet, because you believe that you are more enlightened than a prophet with 1.6 billion followers.

You really have no idea how you sound to others, but I promise it is not Love that you are projecting.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 18-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 11:42 PM
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originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Willtell




Without Hadith Muslims would not know how to pray ...


I know that the Hadith teaches the way to pray, but do you truly believe that Allah only hears the prayers of those who follow the correct RITUALS?

Personally I don't believe in any form of RITUAL SALVATION, nor do I find the support for ritual salvation in the Koran.

edit on 18-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 01:24 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73.

you are using AnsweringChristianity .com

This website was created to refute the Anti islamic website AnsweringIslam.com

AnsweringIslam.com is full of Huge ! mistakes , they are known for twisting scripture and have been refuted many times .

AnsweringChristianity is the same! Its full of mistakes.have a good friend who is an Orthodox Christian that holds a Doctrine in Theology , tells me the site is full of pure ignorance . i agree with him f

let me give you the true understanding of those verse.


QUESTION:

Dear scholars, As-Salamu `alaykum. I was a Christian before, and now I am confused about the definition of the Holy Spirit. What is the Holy Spirit according to Islam? I would like to know the meaning of the Holy Spirit specifically in surat al-Ma'idah (5: 110). Jazakum Allah khayran.


ANSWER:

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, we commend your eagerness to get Islamic knowledge. We earnestly implore Allah to bless your efforts in this honorable way and help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

Answering the question you raised, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:



The Holy Spirit mentioned in the above verse refers to the Angel Jibreel (Gabriel), also known as Jibraaeel; he is the message-bearer par excellence from Allah, the Lord of Glory and Grace; he is also the conduit of divine support and assistance bestowed on Prophets, Messengers as well as righteous people who strive in the path of Allah.

1. Thus we read in the Qur’an that the Prophets (peace be upon them all) are chosen by Allah by sending down the Holy Spirit with the revelations: “He sends down the Spirit from His command, upon those of His servants He chooses, in order to warn people of the Day of Meeting.” (Ghafir: 15)

2. We also read in the Qur’an that it (the Qur’an) was sent down upon the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) through the medium of Holy Spirit: “Say: The Holy Spirit brought it down from your Lord with the truth, to strengthen those who believe, and as a guidance and good tidings to the Muslims.” (An-Nahl: 102)

"And your Lord, He is indeed the August, the Compassionate. And it is a sending down from the Lord of the Worlds, brought down by the Trustworthy Spirit, upon your heart, that you may be one of the warners, in Arabic speech.” (Ash-Shu`ara': 191-195)

3. It is in the same spirit that we read in the Qur’an that the Holy Spirit was sent down to strengthen Jesus and assist him in his work:
“We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs, and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-Baqarah: 253)

“Then Allah will say, O Jesus son of Mary! Remember My favor upon you and upon your mother; how I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit…” (Al-Ma'idah: 110)

4. Furthermore, we read in the Prophetic traditions: The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Verily, the Holy Spirit has cast this idea in my heart: No soul shall die before its appointed time and without having exhausted the means of livelihood apportioned for it, so try to look for a livelihood as best as you can, but don’t seek it through unlawful means.” (Reported by Abu Nu`aym in Hilyah)

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prayed to Allah to strengthen the famous poet Hassan ibn Thabit with the Holy Spirit in composing poems in defense of Islam: “O Allah! Strengthen him with the Holy Spirit.” (Reported by al-Bukhari)

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) later on said about Hassan: “Verily Allah, the Glorious and Mighty, is strengthening Hassan with the Holy Spirit.” (Reported by at-Tirmidhi and Ahmad) “The Holy Spirit is with Hassan in his work!” (Reported by Abu Dawud)

It should be clear from the above that the Holy Spirit is the Angel Jibreel sent by Allah to assist His chosen servants in their divinely ordained missions."


and to answer your question about hadith. Know that islam is the sunnah and the sunnah is islam one if them cannot be established without the other-Imam Barbaharee

If you really believe we cant rely on hadeeth then you must fine fault with the one who has narrated (salaf)

the salaf are the ones who compiled the quran into a book , they are the ones who scribed for Prophet Muhammad . they are the ones who collected and wrote Hadith . We don't follow "All" hadith . Not every hadith is strong , some are weak and have a weak chain of narration.

Some Hadith were often Fabricated , this is true ... But during our time we had a Brilliant man by the Name of shatykh Al Albani . He Albanian , He was a muhadith basically a master in Hadith and he went through all the hadith and was able to figure out a science to tracing them back to the orginal Shahaba or salaf . These are the people who Muhammad taught and were the first 3 generations after him. Anyway through shaykh Albani's science of Hadith he was able to weed out the weak from the strong and class them accordingly .

essentially he is responsible for reviving the sunna.

Now Unfortunaitly we have sects ( like sufi , like extremist , etc) that refuse to except the weak hadith from the strong . Thus forming Ideas and sects .



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 02:15 AM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: FyreByrd

Well look up Christian stuff and you'll get a variety of answers because Christians don't agree on their own religion.

Googling Islam/Muslim might give you some basic surface understanding but, that's about it.



Ya think? Thanks



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 02:40 AM
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originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: FyreByrd

alright your trying to refute me with facts from a website that has taken facts from other sufi websites?




I'm not disputing anything you say. I pointed out that your view of Islam is fundamentalist or traditionalist if you like and by definition don't like any change or difference of intrepritaion from your own studies.

You did state and quite admanantly that 'Sufi' beliefs were rather new and that turns out to be not factual - as the non-Islamic whatsoever basic info on religions site that I referenced. I did not site any "Sufi" site whatsoever as you would have seen if you'd confirmed the reference.

From www.oxfordislamicstudies.com... - hardly a 'sufi' site:


The original sense of Ṣūfī seems to have been “one who wears wool (ṣūf    ).” In the eighth century the word was sometimes being applied to Muslims whose ascetic inclinations led them to wear coarse and uncomfortable woolen garments.


As Muhammad (blessed be his name) died in the early Seventh Century therefore the Eighth Century origins of the the mystical side of Islam (Sufi) is hardly a new innovation.

I am sorry you find this offensive.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 03:10 AM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

It's fully Obvious that you have no understanding of islam , the Quran or the Sunna .

from the website you linked me with your sufi source .


References and Sources
Sufism - Encyclopaedia Britannica
The Whirling Dervishes of Rumi
An American Sufi website
An academic website on Sufism
Related Links
Konya, Turkey (center of the Whirling Dervishes sect) - Sacred Destinations





their are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world who's majority are Sunni (me) or Shia

Sufi's make up a small percentage of that ...i wonder why ?

You can try and defend Sufism all you would like . But one simple fact remains .

they are a sect of Islam and are riddled with bid'ah and shirk.

tell me who from the Shahaba or salaf are sufi?


did rasoolilah saalyhi wa salam teach this 1000 dhikr every moring?

Without using 7 pages to list all the refutations on Sufisim .. you can enlighten your self from the following link that has a hefty refutation list
www.sunniforum.com...
www.ahlalhdeeth.com...

good luck !

When you figure it out then maybe we can have a decent conversation about the Quran and Sunna .



edit on 06/17/2015 by Kapusta because: (no reason given)

edit on 06/17/2015 by Kapusta because: (no reason given)

edit on 06/17/2015 by Kapusta because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 03:29 AM
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a reply to: FyreByrd




As Muhammad (blessed be his name) died in the early Seventh Century therefore the Eighth Century origins of the the mystical side of Islam (Sufi) is hardly a new innovation.

I am sorry you find this offensive.


are you listening to what you are saying ?

you are talking about something being created AFTER prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Sunnie the sunna ! is what He him self followed and the Shahaba /salaf ...



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

I wish you luck in getting Islam (Sufi/Sunni/Shia) to become peaceful with each other and with other spiritual people no matter their faith. Maybe you can bridge the gap to create understanding with all souls in all groups.

In this thread we have Kapusta and FyreByrd in a way arguing over Sufi being part of Islam or not where Kapusta own words is that Sufi is bid'ah and shirk compared to the Sunni way. Kaputsa have a duality in his mind against Sufi and I do not see him wanting to change his opinion on them. This point of view in Islam is not unusual. www.facebook.com...



Rafi Faridi Sufism is the based on pantheism.pantheism is oposite of Tawheed and it is badest shirk.


If you are right that it can be bridged and that Muhammad is just misunderstood then you have your work cut out for you getting people like me to accept Muhammad as a prophet. I clearly have a duality between me and the Muhammad that created Islam. Maybe that is a problem with my awareness not seeing Muhammad as a light/awareness bringer from the source of all thing. Or maybe he is not a light/awareness bringer from the source but something else.

I started to read the Quran again and only 2 pages in I read that the Quran will not reform since reformers are troublemakers. The whole faith in Quran builds on that it is already perfect and do not need reformation. So we are stuck with a religion that will never change no matter science or new ideas. A perfect verse to use against the Sufi to say they are troublemakers.



11. And when it is said to them, “Do not
make trouble on earth,” they say, “We are
only reformers.”
12. In fact, they are the troublemakers, but
they are not aware.


How do you reform something that do not allow reformation without rejecting part of what you are reforming?
edit on 19-7-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: Willtell

Yes, just interesting, but when we put this laws or any other laws that means to encourage, gear and even coerce human behavior they tend to fail, miserably due to the make of human nature, we have something that has given to us plenty is call free will, this makes us unique in the sense that makes us different from each other, laws are usually of a collective matter, we humans are no even close to that, that is why they fail., No even spiritually we are collective we tend to deviate into our own version of understanding.

The end result is punishment when we fail, and for what I have learn about Islam or any other religion that is something plenty to find.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

I am fully in agreement with you .

The religion of Allah is perfect , But when men start to reform it you see the result.

Their is not supposed to be change. History shows us that men with free wills whom change religion only bring upon the suffering of their fellow man .


Thus extremism and sects , This was a prediction of prophet Muhammad.

Many times we see his warning "stick to the quran and sunna , do not deviate"

We see allahs warnings in the Quran as well, just as you pointed out .


Not sure why people think it's a bad thing to be a "traditionalist" , if being that means to follow the religion directly how it was ordered then I am honored by the title .

I take a firm stance on this because it's a serious matter , But In no way am I calling any follower of these sects Kufar (disbelievers) because only Allah knows what's in the heart of men , nobody here can make such a judgement ,unless they show obvious signs .




edit on 06/17/2015 by Kapusta because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

I grew up with the notion that Sufi Islam was for the learned, elite thinkers.... while the robotic masses were destined to remain un-sophisticated and practice their rituals without question...

the Sufi aspect was fundamentally a portal or stargate to converse with /'see' thru visions / learn secrets from the higher realms (like Angels)...

I also had a notion that Sufi mysticism was a link to the primitive Pantheon of 'gods' and spirits in the pre-Islam ages, when Tribes of Arabs/Persians/etc. had Shaman's (priest class leaders)...

can you enlighten me about 'the image' which is that black meteorite in the Kabah...legend has it that the Stone from the sky even predated The Prophet himself...it was a carry over from the Pre-Mohammad days of pre-religious, pre-mono-theistic desert people

thank you



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: LittleByLittle

I take a firm stance on this because it's a serious matter , But In no way am I calling any follower of these sects Kufar (disbelievers) because only Allah knows what's in the heart of men , nobody here can make such a judgement ,unless they show obvious signs .



I might not agree with the Quran in many things but this here I can totally agree with. It is the source of all who knows what is in the heart and what ideals both the mind and soul are following.



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: FyreByrd




As Muhammad (blessed be his name) died in the early Seventh Century therefore the Eighth Century origins of the the mystical side of Islam (Sufi) is hardly a new innovation.

I am sorry you find this offensive.


are you listening to what you are saying ?

you are talking about something being created AFTER prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Sunnie the sunna ! is what He him self followed and the Shahaba /salaf ...



In the life of a religion, a hundred years is as the blink of an eye.

My comments stand and again I am sorry you take offense in them.



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