Republicans can’t stop comparing food stamp recipients to wild animals on Facebook

originally posted by: amazing
We still have issues before but the American economy has improved in all metrics since he took office. Keep in mind that this was a giant world recession that Obama helped steer us out of...in some countries, like Greece in my opinion, it was a depression. So to somehow still blame Obama for American's lack of jobs or prosperity is really short sighted.

There is no comparison to Greece, other than that is the direction we are heading if we do not change our ways. Obama blindly drove around his first 4 years so there was no steering there. Just understand he had nothing to go on so the first 4 years was OJT for him, and we suffered because of that.

If you take a longer harder look, you must ask yourself if Romney or MCCain would have done any better, especially if you look at what the Republicans have done in the last 7 years....What have they done? basically nothing.

Well McCain is crap so I agree there...

Romney other than the very successful but falsely painting him as a evil reptilian (joke, but close to the truth) he is one hell of a businessman, and you really want to compare his tract record to getting companies/Olympics out of trouble to Obama's "community organizer" experience?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
If a ice cream parlor is only selling $20 an hour in ice cream, it's probably already in trouble, regardless of what the employees are paid.

Ya maybe, I know two friends who shut down their businesses to go back working for someone else. In both cases the higher minimum wage here was a big part of it. So to your liking we get ride of companies that can not handle it, great! But remember it is not like another will come along to replace the jobs loss.

Worth. Now there's an interesting concept. I run and have partial ownership in a real estate brokerage. I've had employees with me for an average of 10 years. I've provided reasonable raises each year, made sure they had healthcare and other benefits, and I haven't lost an employee in years. They're all highly skilled and highly motivated, and the benefits to my bottom line FAR OUTWEIGH the additional cost of reasonable salaries and benefits.

I wish Obama believed in small businesses...

Big corporations tend to sacrifice workers for volume, and have no interest in the impact on the local economy other than their own profits. Many smaller businesses drain the highest profits possible at the expense of additional productivity.

Talk about generalization, my parent company is Boeing and there is about 180k people doing rather well, and the communities are greatly benefiting too. The company I work for is about 1000 employees and the effect we have on the local small town we are at is so good that they might as well rename the town after us...lol

originally posted by: Dfairlite

If I missed anything, there is plenty of wiggle room in the budget. (e.g., eat out less, buy a bus pass, save for a car instead of financing, etc)
Moral of the story: is minimum wage comfortable? No, but it's not inhumane or anything. It is a livable wage.

Do you know that 50 pounds of rice makes 550 cups of cook rice for 40 bucks? My family has a rice cooker that has hot rice 24/7.

Also, not until I was in my 30s did I reach the point I did not need a roommate to share the cost anymore.... The rest of the world works on synergy except for the US that thinks privacy is a right and not a privilege and so we feel a person on their first job should be able to afford a private appt, car, phone, computer etc...all by themselves.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yeah, we do bonuses, too. For managers. For hourly staff...there isn't a bonus program in place

Ours start at 10% of annual wages, and range up to 25%. I get 20%, and as my posting tends to show....i work my ass off to get that money.

Do a experiment.. Find the person in your neighborhood pushing two shopping carts. Invite them to your house for dinner and give them $10.00. Explain to them , you want them to come to your house every night and the same thing will happen because you care. Not only will you find out if there is some truth or not to the statement . You will be taking some of the burden off the other people you care so much about ..

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Xtrozero

Yeah, we do bonuses, too. For managers. For hourly staff...there isn't a bonus program in place

Ours start at 10% of annual wages, and range up to 25%. I get 20%, and as my posting tends to show....i work my ass off to get that money.

Where I work everyone gets at least 10%, mangers get 12.5 to 17.5%. VPs and above are on a different scale than percentages. Where the motivation comes in is if we do really bad there can be no bonus, but if we do real good then there is a modifier. Last year was a 1.6 modifier to my 15%.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Dfairlite

If I missed anything, there is plenty of wiggle room in the budget. (e.g., eat out less, buy a bus pass, save for a car instead of financing, etc)
Moral of the story: is minimum wage comfortable? No, but it's not inhumane or anything. It is a livable wage.

Do you know that 50 pounds of rice makes 550 cups of cook rice for 40 bucks? My family has a rice cooker that has hot rice 24/7.

Also, not until I was in my 30s did I reach the point I did not need a roommate to share the cost anymore.... The rest of the world works on synergy except for the US that thinks privacy is a right and not a privilege and so we feel a person on their first job should be able to afford a private appt, car, phone, computer etc...all by themselves.

Exactly my point, this budget is bloated with food, an individual could eat well for $150 month if they cooked most of their meals.

And I agree on the whole apartment thing. Think about it, how many single people do you know that have a house and live alone? Not many that I know, it's nice to have other people around (albeit annoying at times) and why in the hell would anyone pay a bunch of money to live somewhere with a bunch of empty space?

Of course, not many people make minimum wage, but it's a good rally cry for moronic socialists who think that dictating wages works.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Then your two friends made the right decision. When you can't find a way to make a business work, find another business or get another job. Glad to hear they were able to find jobs!

You're putting words in my mouth (again). You have two friends whose businesses failed. There are numerous businesses in Seattle that are doing fine and paying the new minimum wage. I don't "want any business to fail." Get over yourself. We have different opinions.

Your wish is granted. President Obama does care about small business. His Administration has enacted 18 tax cuts for small businesses. Greater access to business loans from the Small Business Adminstration, more than under any other President. Tax credits under ACA (I know grinds your gears, but it's true) for businesses under 25 employees.

Your Republican friends in Congress are the ones that only care about their mega-corporate contributors. Might take it up with them.

Congrats for you and Boeing. If your local plant/office/whathaveyou is contributing to the local economy by paying good wages and giving back ... so much for the better!

a reply to: Dfairlite

Sounds like with your budgeting skills, you need to work for the government!

You concocted a "perfect" scenario, tell me, what if your perfect situation has a spouse and kids?

Oh wait, you only spend $600 a month on food for a family of five, that's right. Cereal all round then.

What if this is not in the specific spot in your perfect scenario? What if the closest living space is 5 miles away?

$340 per month for rent. That's absolutely ridiculous and you know it. Did you notice in your link that these rooms (which the median price, by the way is more like $400 and it goes up from there) shows these rooms as "UNAVAILABLE"?

What about the medical bills that will result from only eating Big Macs?

What if this person falls while walking to work?

No taxes? Taxes are withheld even if it comes back in a once a year refund. And what makes you think that someone that makes $14,000 or so a year pays no taxes?

....

Glad you convinced yourself that anybody can live a fine life on minimum wage. We'll forget that you fabricated prices and costs, tweaked every possibility to the lowest possible range, etc. etc.

... but ... just think ... if someone can do THAT well on $7.25, how much BETTER they could do on $14.50? According to your calculations, that will give them another $1200 or so each month to invest in the local economy ... which will make local businesses more profitable and able to hire more people at $14.50 per hour ... and so on and so on ...

Great point, D!

a reply to: Gryphon66

cereal?? are you kidding me, have you seen the price of that overpriced sugar high they peddle as cereal?? no thanks I have plenty of oatmeal I can make, and it was much cheaper.

a single person might be able to live rather cheap when it comes to food, I do, but well, I wouldn't dream of feeding a family of young children like I eat, they need balanced meals and well variety. ya know, fruits, vegetable, meat, starches, dairy. I often hear people talk about how cheap rice and beans are, but well, I got a feeling malnutrition would eventually set in.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

cereal?? are you kidding me, have you seen the price of that overpriced sugar high they peddle as cereal?? no thanks I have plenty of oatmeal I can make, and it was much cheaper.

a single person might be able to live rather cheap when it comes to food, I do, but well, I wouldn't dream of feeding a family of young children like I eat, they need balanced meals and well variety. ya know, fruits, vegetable, meat, starches, dairy. I often hear people talk about how cheap rice and beans are, but well, I got a feeling malnutrition would eventually set in.

Are you replying to me or to Dfairlite?

I'm not claiming that I can feed anybody for $150 a week, much less a family of five, much less on Big Macs and cereal.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Your Republican friends in Congress are the ones that only care about their mega-corporate contributors. Might take it up with them.

For some reason you think I'm some die hard Republican because I think our current president is a failure. hmmm I drift all over the line and I would say I lean more towards libertarian than anything else.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Your Republican friends in Congress are the ones that only care about their mega-corporate contributors. Might take it up with them.

For some reason you think I'm some die hard Republican because I think our current president is a failure. hmmm I drift all over the line and I would say I lean more towards libertarian than anything else.

Nope. I just think you mouth the standard Republican/right-wing mainstream media talking points on most any issue I've ever seen you post on, and sadly, even the Libertarian party has been co-opted by right-wing fascists for the most part.

Selective fascists, I should say, they only want the State to control what OTHERS say and do.

What's wrong with being thought of as Republican? You seem to share most of their beliefs?

What part of their schtick do you disagree with? That might be a more convincing argument.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No taxes? Taxes are withheld even if it comes back in a once a year refund. And what makes you think that someone that makes $14,000 or so a year pays no taxes?

IRS.gov has a witholding calculator, at minimum wage you should bump your witholdings up to where zero dollars are witheld because you won't owe any taxes at the end of the year, and if you do, it'll be a couple hundred dollars. easily covered in a couple months. It's really simple.

What if this person falls while walking to work?

Well, they do have medical insurance, so they'll probably be ok. NTM we are talking about young people here (the elderly don't make up many of the minimum wage earners), they'll likely be ok if they fall.

$340 per month for rent. That's absolutely ridiculous and you know it.

No it isn't, While the places I linked may have been unavailable, they were for full on apartments. You can rent a room for cheaper than that. Which, last I checked, is shelter.

Oh wait, you only spend $600 a month on food for a family of five, that's right. Cereal all round then.

I actually spend $550-600 and that's eating out a decent restaurants a couple nights per month. According to the USDA I'm thrifty: link

What if this is not in the specific spot in your perfect scenario? What if the closest living space is 5 miles away?

I went over those things at the end. Buy a bus pass, adjust your eating habits, etc.

You concocted a "perfect" scenario, tell me, what if your perfect situation has a spouse and kids?

Then you have two incomes so it's a whole different scenario.

We'll forget that you fabricated prices and costs, tweaked every possibility to the lowest possible range, etc. etc.

I did nothing of the sort. That budget is absurdly heavy on food, which was derived from eating out every meal but breakfast. The car budget is based on a $1500 vehicle financed over two years at 8% interest. The housing was derived by a search for cheap housing in the area. I looked up an insurance quote on ehealth for a 28 yr old male. The only fabricated figures were gas and electric, which should be pretty close.

Glad you convinced yourself that anybody can live a fine life on minimum wage.

Yes, the minimum wage will provide the minimum.

but ... just think ... if someone can do THAT well on $7.25, how much BETTER they could do on $14.50?

Just think how much better they could do on $80/hr!

that will give them another $1200 or so each month to invest in the local economy... which will make local businesses more profitable and able to hire more people at $14.50 per hour ... and so on and so on ...

You don't seem to have a very good grasp of economics. I don't say that as a slight to you, most people don't understand economics. The only reason I understand it is because it was my major until I was a Jr. in college. But I'm not sure it requires my expertise in order to see that your logic doesn't follow because if it did, there would never be a reason to stop raising the minimum wage. $1,000,000/hr minimum wage only has positive benefits for everyone!

a reply to: Dfairlite

So now there ARE taxes associated with that level of income. (Just as a note, the minimum tax at that level is $500~)

Probably be okay if they fall. Sure. Just like they can possibly find a rental home for $340, and there's a chance they could live on the bare-bones, totally optimistic "budget" you provided ...

So, the rest of the country is sooo different from the Atlanta market ... (which has one of the most reasonable costs of living in the country). Minimum Studios rentals begin at $400 a month. Average for one bedroom is $500 per month.

According to the USDA a normal amount of food cost per month for a family of four is around $770. I didn't cite that earlier because, well, it's an evil arm of the Federal Government so I didn't waste our time with it. Thrifty, so you admit your estimates are "best possible case scenario." Fair enough.

Well, you may want to get your money back for your minor in Economics if it taught you to jump to the most absurd example possible when making an argument. I don't understand economics? LOL. And that rubbish is the evidence you provide?

Paying employees more than a "minimum" lifestyle increases the money they spend in the local markets, which is an increase in demand, which if managed properly, strikes a new balance with supply, and creates a growing market.

You know, like the US Economy until various factions worked to gut the middle class, which all "economists" agree is the engine of a modern economy.

Nice try at argumentum ad absurdum though. More than a little bit ham-handed, but ... still.

a reply to: Gryphon66

So now there ARE taxes associated with that level of income. (Just as a note, the minimum tax at that level is $500~)

Well that depends on specific circumstances but worse case scenario is that yes there are a small amount of taxes ($370 on $14k).

Just like they can possibly find a rental home for $340, and there's a chance they could live on the bare-bones, totally optimistic "budget" you provided ...

They can definitely find a room to rent for $340 or an apartment to share with someone for $700 (unless they live in an overpriced liberal state like ny and ca).

So, the rest of the country is sooo different from the Atlanta market ... (which has one of the most reasonable costs of living in the country). Minimum Studios rentals begin at $400 a month. Average for one bedroom is $500 per month.

Now see how much it costs to rent a bedroom.

Thrifty, so you admit your estimates are "best possible case scenario." Fair enough.

No, my scenario is not thrifty, my low ball scenario was $270 for groceries, which is right between the low and moderate cost plans according to the USDA. Thrifty is $187/month. Damn, now we've got another hundred bucks a month to spend!

What I spend on myself and my family qualifies as "thrifty" according to the USDA, so the minimum wager is eating better than I am, and I have zero complaints about my dietary options.

I don't understand economics? LOL. And that rubbish is the evidence you provide?

You literally advocated for a 100% increase in the minimum wage. No sane person (nor sane economists) thinks that a 100% increase would be healthy for the economy.

Paying employees more than a "minimum" lifestyle increases the money they spend in the local markets, which is an increase in demand, which if managed properly, strikes a new balance with supply, and creates a growing market.

You're forgetting that labor is a market, subject to supply and demand just as much as any product. And just like a product, if you artificially inflate the price of labor the demand for labor decreases. Now there is a point where labor becomes inelastic but when you're talking about people taking orders at McDonalds there is a technology ceiling that will wipe out all of the labor there at a price well below the $14.50 you suggested.

You know, like the US Economy until various factions worked to gut the middle class, which all "economists" agree is the engine of a modern economy.

I suspect we disagree on what is responsible for such gutting.

Nice try at argumentum ad absurdum though. More than a little bit ham-handed, but ... still

So you do think there is a limit to how high we should raise the minimum wage? Why?

a reply to: Gryphon66
when I was raising my kids we were trying to feed a family of five on $30 a week....
it was really fun, believe me!! I got into the habit of just eating one meal about every other day..
funny thing is though, we didn't qualify for any of these programs and I could sit with pen and pencil and account for just about every cent we made really....we didn't have anything our single moms on welfare had, matter of fact we had less, but well after taxes we really didn't have enough.

that was over a decade ago though. think things have changed a little since then.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Liberal State eh? You mean the ones with the highest GDP and PPP in the US?

It's getting pretty shallow in the partisan pool here.

Would you say that Georgia is a "liberal state"? How about Texas?

Here's standard costs of living for ATL: Cost of Living in Atlanta

Texas

National average cost of living: National

In every one the most basic costs far outstrip your contrived examples.

No, your estimate is not "thrifty" ... it's ludicrous and doesn't fit the data from any city anywhere in the US.

Does more disposable income in the hands of 95% of the population result in higher demand ... or not? It's not a hard question. A minimum wage removes "competition" in the labor market, because it sets a low end cost.

I certain do think that $1,000,000 per hour, as in your example, is ridiculous.

Based on your fiscal expertise, what do you think the "minimum" should be? Let me guess, the lowest possible number that you can find people to work for?

You betcha we disagree. *wink*

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gryphon66
when I was raising my kids we were trying to feed a family of five on $30 a week....
it was really fun, believe me!! I got into the habit of just eating one meal about every other day..
funny thing is though, we didn't qualify for any of these programs and I could sit with pen and pencil and account for just about every cent we made really....we didn't have anything our single moms on welfare had, matter of fact we had less, but well after taxes we really didn't have enough.

that was over a decade ago though. think things have changed a little since then.

You were able to feed a family of five on $30/wk in 2005? Amazing.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The problem with increasing minimum wage: it simply moves the hurdle point for "poverty" up the scale a bit, turning middle class into "below the poverty line".

It isn't like minimum wage has a trickle up effect. Give my folks a $5/hr raise right now...and it stops there.

Minimum wage is a means to the end of eliminating the middle class, and creating a serfdom.