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'mental illness' as a maladjustment to reality

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posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 04:28 AM
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originally posted by: VoidHawk
a reply to: gosseyn




Saying that "mental illness" is maladjustment to reality

I think much of the mental illness we see these days is not an illness as such, its a symptom! A symptom of living in a screwed up world!
If the world wasn't such a nasty place many of these mentally ill people would not have the SYMPTOMS.


I think the truly mentally ill are those psychopaths who are perpetrating the evils upon us all that cause us to react so badly. Of course not every mental illness is a result, some are genetic and unavoidable. But lots definitely are.




posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 04:41 AM
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The practice of mindfulness, if I believe correctly is the state of using your sences to simply experience the moment of true reality based upon what is around you, without prejudice of thought.

It is, to me, more mindlessness than mindfulness. The map of ideas and thoughts is disregarded.

We live in two realities, our own, through our own thoughts and prejudices creating a world that is distorted based on our beliefs, ideals and hopes; then there's the other reality, one which is occuring aound us without prejudice.

Then i suppose there is a another reality based upon a collective of conciousness of all those that are self aware and creates a dynamic view on what is real based upon what the mass agree it is. Like with religious beliefs, a person can be deemed as mentally ill who veers from that mass agreed path by stating they know reality is something very different.



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 06:02 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: gosseyn

Nicely elucidated; but if I see another exhortation to people to 'live in the present' in order to deal with their problems of adjustment to reality, I'll puke.

'Live in the present' just means 'don't think'. It amounts to abandoning (more correctly, trying and failing to abandon) the evolutionary advantages conferred on us by the development of the brain's frontal lobe. It is neither laudable nor — unless one is willing to perform damaging experiments on one's own brain, such as lobotomy or meditation — feasible.

Happiness is not exactly a chimera, but it is not an appropriate human goal either. Nature does not intend us to be happy; she intends us only to live long enough to reproduce and rear our young to the point where they are independently viable. Thus we are equipped with needs and desires, which we are motivated to gratify. Slaking them offers temporary satisfaction, but the appetite revives after a while, as it must, and then the search for gratification recommences.

Happiness is never attained by direct pursuit. It is a by-product of other feelings and sensations and it is always ephemeral. This is just as it should be. Well-adjusted people don't worry about happiness. They worry about what to do next.


This. It is exactly this. In fact, my delight, I have lifted this and put it in a work- file to use as a hand-out in one of my therapy groups, if you don't object. I will change the word "worry' to "concern themselves with", if that is further okay with you.

I remember when everyone on ATS was talking about The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. I bought it, read it, and thought "this dog won't hunt". There was some merit however, in dealing with anger issues (in terms of not taking it with you to the next minute) which can be used as a nice little tool at times for those with the discipline.

Anyhoo.

*You come in here, throw a pearl or two, and I sometimes wonder why you do it. Hoping I guess, somebody will pick one up and think "ahh, this has value".

..........



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: gosseyn


Are you denying the fact that the future is a development of the present, and that if you're blind to the present, you're also blind to the future?

Everybody is blind to the future. Besides, the advice 'live in the present' means precisely that: 'Don't concern yourself about the future.'



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: gosseyn


Like I said, we are all more or less Insane

Hey there... speak for yourself, laddie. I know real crazy people, and they're very different, believe me. You don't want to be like them. You won't like them.

Ladyinwaiting: Ma'am, you lavish praise upon the undeserving. I thank you anyway. Feel free to use what you read here in any way you like.


edit on 17/7/15 by Astyanax because: Of permission.



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: gosseyn

If I'm remembering something or thinking about something that I need to do in the future, technically those are in the present because I'm thinking of them in the present and they should be valid then by your logic.

Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't make it fiction. All of the history of mankind isn't fiction.

As I said before, we navigate the present using memories and future projections to help guide us and I don't think that makes us insane.

We will probably have to agree to disagree on this subject.



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: gosseyn


Like I said, we are all more or less Insane

Hey there... speak for yourself, laddie. I know real crazy people, and they're very different, believe me. You don't want to be like them. You won't like them.




The question you're not asking yourself is : how do you define "mental illness" ? What is it? It is not some isolated process of the mind that we just happen to dislike and that we therefore proclaim to be an "illness", it is not as if this process was painted in a color that we just happen to dislike because we prefer red color more than blue or the yellow more than green. There has to be something to which we compare it. What is this something ? Is it sanity, do we compare it to sanity ? But how do we know that sanity is sanity ? As an analogy : if you're looking at two galaxies, and the distance between them seems to be shrinking, how do you know if it's this galaxy or that galaxy that is moving or if they are both moving towards each other at the same time ? We have to have a point of reference that is not a process of the mind, otherwise what we call sanity could become insanity, and what we call insanity could become sanity, and no one would ever know. Therefore, the only conclusion is : that which is not 'a process of the mind' is reality, what-is-really-happening-without-any-thought, the territory, not the map, that is our point of reference. We have to base our maps on the territory, not on another map.

Do you understand ?



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: Hephster
a reply to: gosseyn

If I'm remembering something or thinking about something that I need to do in the future, technically those are in the present because I'm thinking of them in the present and they should be valid then by your logic.

Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't make it fiction. All of the history of mankind isn't fiction.

As I said before, we navigate the present using memories and future projections to help guide us and I don't think that makes us insane.

We will probably have to agree to disagree on this subject.



All thoughts are fiction, all memories are fiction, all written accounts are fiction, all expectations of the future are fiction. If you see a tree and you say "this is a tree", you have done nothing but naming it. If it's written down in English it's just four letters, if you say it aloud it's just a noise captured by eardrums, but it is not and will never become the real tree. The map is never the territory, the map can never represent the territory with perfect precision, this is the nature of maps, this is the nature of thoughts, this is the nature of human experience. This is why we're all more or less "mentally ill", or should I say maladjusted to reality, because all we can do is to use maps. This is an intrinsic limitation of our human condition.



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: gosseyn

I refer you to the last sentence of Macbeth's final soliloquy on the ramparts of Dunsinane. You may call me Macduff.


edit on 17/7/15 by Astyanax because: the naked truth is so irritating.



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: gosseyn

I simply disagree that everything is fiction that isn't a physical object. I think that thoughts are real, as well as words, writing and sound. Just because my thought of the tree isn't the real tree itself doesn't make me insane.

By your definition, anyone who can't create physical reality with their minds is insane, which I think is kind of ridiculous.



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: Hephster


By your definition, anyone who can't create physical reality with their minds is insane

In fact, it's those who mistake their minds' creations for physical reality who are insane.

The truth, I fear, is outing.


edit on 17/7/15 by Astyanax because: it's outing.



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: Hephster
a reply to: gosseyn

I simply disagree that everything is fiction that isn't a physical object. I think that thoughts are real, as well as words, writing and sound. Just because my thought of the tree isn't the real tree itself doesn't make me insane.

By your definition, anyone who can't create physical reality with their minds is insane, which I think is kind of ridiculous.


It's a fiction because thought is of different nature than the real object, and thought can never represent the real object in all its complexity and in all its relations with other objects. We have a misunderstanding right now because we use different maps. Thoughts are real by the sole fact that they happen, but what are the thoughts about ? Thinking of thinking is where lies the problem, maps on maps on maps on maps, as if the map was all there is, then we push the nuclear button because...thoughts.

I am redefining what "insane" and "sane" means here, I am bringing a new map, and you react as if you didn't notice it, you react based on another map. No one can create physical reality in its own mind, that is exactly the point.
edit on 17-7-2015 by gosseyn because: sp



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Hephster


By your definition, anyone who can't create physical reality with their minds is insane

In fact, it's those who mistake their minds' creations for physical reality who are insane.

The truth, I fear, is outing.



You're saying exactly the same thing as I say, while thinking you're contradicting me. That's... funny.



posted on Jul, 17 2015 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: gosseyn

Oh, no. I'm saying that your view of insanity is insane.

Mental illness is not maladjustment to reality. Mental illness is false perception of reality.


edit on 18/7/15 by Astyanax because: of the obvious.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: gosseyn

Just because we don't experience physical reality in real time, or in all it's wavelengths doesn't mean we're mentally ill. That doesn't really compute, man. I think you're kinda going in circles at this point.

Your reasoning is actually circular. It requires we take an assumption which isn't evidenced, and work from there. Best I can tell, some people are seriously ill, but the majority are pretty well okay most of the time.

In some respects, things could be cleared up if we properly qualified our terms. It seems some in this thread are applying terms from one context to the next without regard for the differences they hold in each. That can cause confusion not only for the readers, but for the one trying to get out the thoughts.

It may be best to differentiate between subjective, and objective reality. Just saying reality in both cases doesn't really work.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 02:36 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: gosseyn

Oh, no. I'm saying that your view of insanity is insane.

Mental illness is not maladjustment to reality. Mental illness is false perception of reality.



You really don't know what you're talking about, do you ? Maladjustment to reality IS false perception of reality, because all we can do is to perceive reality. Once again you're saying exactly the same thing that I am saying thinking you're contradicting me.

But listen, I know you've placed your ego on the line here, you think there is something to "win", and it says more about your insecurity than anything else. So please, go post somewhere else, or if you insist then try to say something meaningful.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 02:45 AM
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originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: gosseyn

Just because we don't experience physical reality in real time, or in all it's wavelengths doesn't mean we're mentally ill. That doesn't really compute, man. I think you're kinda going in circles at this point.

Your reasoning is actually circular. It requires we take an assumption which isn't evidenced, and work from there. Best I can tell, some people are seriously ill, but the majority are pretty well okay most of the time.

In some respects, things could be cleared up if we properly qualified our terms. It seems some in this thread are applying terms from one context to the next without regard for the differences they hold in each. That can cause confusion not only for the readers, but for the one trying to get out the thoughts.

It may be best to differentiate between subjective, and objective reality. Just saying reality in both cases doesn't really work.


I've said it, and it's in the title of the thread : I am redefining what 'mental illness' means, what 'sanity' and 'insanity' means. And if in this new context that I have created in this thread, 'mental illness' is seen as maladjustment to reality, then it means that everyone is more or less mentally ill. Do you get it ?

There is only one reality, and I use the map/territory analogy as often as possible to avoid confusion, so show me where you think I have made the confusion.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 10:30 PM
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a reply to: gosseyn


Maladjustment to reality IS false perception of reality

Hopeless. Are people who deny global warming insane? Are people without demonstrable gluten allergies mad if they think wheat is bad for them?


I am redefining what 'mental illness' means

You do realize that is an utterly insane thing to do, I hope.


edit on 18/7/15 by Astyanax because: it's getting madder and madder.



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 10:51 PM
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We all view reality through a filter (our brain) and no one get's a 100% unfiltered view of reality - our brains' accept a certain amount of external stimuli to process, but our brain is still constrained by biology. Our brains take short-cuts, and filter information in numerous energy conserving ways - Its why most can see "optical illusions", and explains pareidolia.

Many schizophrenics cannot not see many optical illusions that non-schizos will consistently observe. It's also interesting many schizophrenics are uneasy in crowded spaces as it is hard for them to filter out external stimuli - ie other conversations going on in the room, making it extremely hard to focus.

I am of the opinion that "mental illness" is more connected to the evolution of the brain, and consciousness as a whole. It doesn't always mean changes will be for the best, but brilliance and mental illness has been observed intertwined in numerous cases, and extremely high intelligence and "personality" quirks seem to go hand in hand.

The cases of creative and intellectual genius being afflicted by "mental illness" are too numerous to list.
edit on 18-7-2015 by Syyth007 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2015 @ 11:36 PM
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a reply to: Astyanax

Maladjustment to reality equals to have the idea that there are dragons in my backyard, when clearly there are no dragons in my backyard. It is to imagine things that are not really there or to imagine that there is nothing there while there is fact something. You can call it false perception of reality if you want, that's the same thing. The map and territory analogy explains that very well.




You do realize that is an utterly insane thing to do, I hope.
Why ?



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