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What are the concepts behind the belief sytem of Atheism?

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posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: luthier




The cosmic teapot is famous argument in philosophy.


Well, I've never encountered it, and I find pretty stupid. Like I said, if there's tea everywhere, maybe it rained.

This is the same argument that I addressed in my original post. To claim that the existence of the universe, and all the tea in china, and the existence of consciousness is proof of the existence of a god is no different than my claim that your god can be defined as the culmination of the existence of everything that is. Nothing supernatural. It's algebra.


edit on 16-7-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: luthier


Actually its quite the opposite. I want to know what atheism is but everyone has a different definition and contradictory ones at that. So i cant say one way or the other anything about the op.

You're right. Everyone does have a different definition. Except atheists. You'll find we usually agree on the definition. Which I gave in my first post in this thread. Striaght from the American Atheists site.
www.abovetopsecret.com...




There are many versions here on this thread. I am reffering to if you evaluate the belief in a rational way. How can you CLAIM there is no god then say there could be in the form of agnostic atheism? Just to say again these are not judgements on personal beliefs or anything like that i simply want to be able to answer the op and know for myself if I am wrong or not. I do need logical convincing.

If you claim there is no god in philosophy you need defend that.(this is off topic though) but a great debate if people are open minded. If i claim god exists by faith i admit i cant prove it. If you admit you cant prove the claim god does not exist is that not goimg on faith? By actively stating you believe there is no god but can not prove it , i have trouble seeing how it isnt going on faith. That doesnt mean i am right though. Just curious



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: luthier




I want to know what atheism is


It's really simple.. Atheism is the lack of belief in gods.



but everyone has a different definition and contradictory ones at that.


There is only one definition for atheism, but there are a multitude definitions for god. However, what I believe what you call god is nothing supernatural, but merely the existence of what is.

There is no active belief in non-belief. Just like there's no action in not playing baseball or not collecting stamps.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: luthier

No you can only be agnostic or atheist.




Agnostic vs. atheist. An atheist lacks faith in God, believes there is no god, or lacks awareness of gods. An agnostic either believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a god or is noncommittal on the issue.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: infolurker


I know of nobody forcing anyone here in this nation to accept Christianity.

That's because you ignore anything you don't want to see. Or move the goalposts, like you just did after Woodcarver answered your first challenge.



Challenge?

Dude is going off in left field with genetic memory of slavery from generations past.

I will pass on that.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: luthier




The cosmic teapot is famous argument in philosophy.


Well, I've never encountered it, and I find pretty stupid. Like I said, if there's tea everywhere, maybe it rained.

This is the same argument that I addressed in my original post. To claim that the existence of the universe, and all the tea in china, and the existence of consciousness is proof of the existence of a god is no different than claim than my claim that your god can be defined as the culmination of the existence of everything that is. Nothing supernatural. It's algebra.



Its an argument by an atheist.

Similar to the cartoon mouse used earlier.

Again i make no claims these are just arguments that represent some of the debating here.

Basically you just answered my question though. There isnt a difference between the two arguments both relying on faith.

However a few arguments for god (not mine) that are rational not theological.

If there was nothing at one point how is there something now? If there was something there must always have been something that something is god. The big bang. What caused it to happen. There must have been a prime mover. Something which started all movement since it can not come from nothing. Without going into infinite regress.

These are terrible paraphrases of older arguments that do have good rebuttals. Just saying these types of arguments along with the finely tuned universe theory are what make the whole cartoon mouse theory or russels teapot a fallacy.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: luthier




I want to know what atheism is


It's really simple.. Atheism is the lack of belief in gods.



but everyone has a different definition and contradictory ones at that.


There is only one definition for atheism, but there are a multitude definitions for god. However, what I believe what you call god is nothing supernatural, but merely the existence of what is.

There is no active belief in non-belief. Just like there's no action in not playing baseball or not collecting stamps.


Ok now we are getting some where. So you do not claim god does not exist?

I also never said I believe in god. I am agnostic but yes I consider some arguments pretty compelling which make me lean a little deist. I also lean a little pantheist.

But all that is besides the point. I want to know what is true so I have these arguments to challenge, change, and grow what I believe. I already am starting to change my opinion on the hard atheist being the only definition.
edit on 16-7-2015 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: Woodcarver

How is it sarcasm? And these are strict laws within the Atheist higharchy, If you don't follow it then you or anyone else who tries to counter it's belief system are black listed from occupations that require strict atheists.




This was a very long post, just to be sarcastic. Smh you don't get to define what atheists think.


Oh but an Athiest can define what a religion is such as Christianity or Islam?

Isn't it atheists that cry about Religion being a process of control and assimilation when Atheism itself dominates what people call * Education*?

You can't go to secondary education after highschool other than say trades. Without memorizing and reciting Atheist beliefs in any of the core subjects with the acception of some Math in some areas where we would only be dealing with numbers. But it's gunna be kinda hard not to fail History ( Social sciences), Sciences aka BIology, Astronomy, Geology, ect.

Everyone learns that dinosaurs walked the Earth millions of years ago and if you deny it, you can kiss your education goodbye becaus atheists have everyone by the balls. You want a nice car? Well if you want a nice car as a christian then you better either shut your yap copy and paste the atheist doctrain in school even if you don't really believe it. Just like how people have to pretend to be Muslim even if they arn't so they won't get their head chopped off in Lybia.

How is this Sarcasm?
There is only one belief that defines whether an individual is atheist or not. All of the other beliefs you listed have names already and they are not exclusive to atheism. I say that you cannot define atheism, because it is already defined. You do not get to attach all of those other beliefs to atheism.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: Woodcarver

How is it sarcasm? And these are strict laws within the Atheist higharchy, If you don't follow it then you or anyone else who tries to counter it's belief system are black listed from occupations that require strict atheists.




This was a very long post, just to be sarcastic. Smh you don't get to define what atheists think.


Oh but an Athiest can define what a religion is such as Christianity or Islam?

Isn't it atheists that cry about Religion being a process of control and assimilation when Atheism itself dominates what people call * Education*?

You can't go to secondary education after highschool other than say trades. Without memorizing and reciting Atheist beliefs in any of the core subjects with the acception of some Math in some areas where we would only be dealing with numbers. But it's gunna be kinda hard not to fail History ( Social sciences), Sciences aka BIology, Astronomy, Geology, ect.

Everyone learns that dinosaurs walked the Earth millions of years ago and if you deny it, you can kiss your education goodbye becaus atheists have everyone by the balls. You want a nice car? Well if you want a nice car as a christian then you better either shut your yap copy and paste the atheist doctrain in school even if you don't really believe it. Just like how people have to pretend to be Muslim even if they arn't so they won't get their head chopped off in Lybia.

How is this Sarcasm?


This is actual absurdity.

You are right. It is not sarcasm. It is straight up lies. There is only one atheist belief. But if you don't believe that dinos existed before 65 million years ago, then i guess every other belief that goes against that prob looks like an atheist overlord agenda. Sheesh. I would rather discuss actual things.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: luthier


There are many versions here on this thread.

Understood. But there is only one definition. Anything else is an opinion.


I am reffering to if you evaluate the belief in a rational way. How can you CLAIM there is no god then say there could be in the form of agnostic atheism? (If you claim there is no god in philosophy you need defend that.)

I lack belief in fairies too, but I cannot prove for a fact they don't exist. Nor do I have faith they don't exist. I just lack any belief they do.

Part of the issue with god for me, and also why I am labeled an atheist, is because I see god and creator(s) separately. God is purely a human concept. It is an attempt to define and "deify" that which is beyond our comprehension. Whereas I don't have near the problem with a creator or creators, because that simply means an entity, or group of entities that has knowledge and abilities beyond the scope of human understanding at present. However, some day we may very well understand that which is beyond us at this point. Will we then become "gods"? Will we then be divinity? Maybe. But only to those who fall under Arthur Clarke's statement: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: luthier




Basically you just answered my question though. There isnt a difference between the two arguments both relying on faith.


There's no faith involved in believing that which is, is. Again, the existence of the universe doesn't prove a supernatural existence, and the fact that consciousness exists also does not prove the supernatural exists. Belief in the supernatural requires faith, something the atheist and the agnostic lack.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: luthier


There are many versions here on this thread.

Understood. But there is only one definition. Anything else is an opinion.


I am reffering to if you evaluate the belief in a rational way. How can you CLAIM there is no god then say there could be in the form of agnostic atheism? (If you claim there is no god in philosophy you need defend that.)

I lack belief in fairies too, but I cannot prove for a fact they don't exist. Nor do I have faith they don't exist. I just lack any belief they do.

Part of the issue with god for me, and also why I am labeled an atheist, is because I see god and creator(s) separately. God is purely a human concept. It is an attempt to define and "deify" that which is beyond our comprehension. Whereas I don't have near the problem with a creator or creators, because that simply means an entity, or group of entities that has knowledge and abilities beyond the scope of human understanding at present. However, some day we may very well understand that which is beyond us at this point. Will we then become "gods"? Will we then be divinity? Maybe. But only to those who fall under Arthur Clarke's statement: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."


Thanks for clarity. But there is no argument for the tooth fairy that holds any weight but there are for god even by admision of atheists. Like i said the un moved mover or the finely tuned universe etc. There are rational arguments (with good rebuttals) for god not just hocus pocus. That makes it a far different argument than the tooth fairy. You have to then disprove the argument in epistemology. Like if the weight of an atom of carbon was different our universe and the laws of physics are gone. Such a fine tuning isnt possible in one universe with random arrangement of matter. Not the god of the bible but perhaps a designer of some sort.

The teleological argument is interesting.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: luthier




So you do not claim god does not exist?


I claim that the supernatural doesn't exist. I can find a definition of god that I can use for the sake of conversation, for example, "god is everything that is." There! God exists!



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: luthier




I want to know what atheism is


It's really simple.. Atheism is the lack of belief in gods.



but everyone has a different definition and contradictory ones at that.


There is only one definition for atheism, but there are a multitude definitions for god. However, what I believe what you call god is nothing supernatural, but merely the existence of what is.

There is no active belief in non-belief. Just like there's no action in not playing baseball or not collecting stamps.


Ok now we are getting some where. So you do not claim god does not exist?

I also never said I believe in god. I am agnostic but yes I consider some arguments pretty compelling which make me lean a little deist. I also lean a little pantheist.

But all that is besides the point. I want to know what is true so I have these arguments to challenge, change, and grow what I believe. I already am starting to change my opinion on the hard atheist being the only definition.
One cannot posit that All gods do not exist, because some people can come up with their own interpretation of what a god is. Much like a pantheist world view, where the universe is god. Or someone could say a cheese sandwich is their god. I could not argue with it as long as their descriptions of the abilities of said sandwich were provable.

However, we can take on claims of divinity one at a time and discuss the merits and claims about the properties of individual "gods".

When we look at say the christian god, or allah respectively, we can trace back the concepts of their existence and follow the evidence where it leads. All of the evidence comes to us as written books from a time when very few were literate. We can follow those stories and pinpoint which cultures added parts and changed parts to better fit the culture they were trying to create. This can be seen throughout everyone of the worlds religions. All of them.

So we can actually dismiss many of the claims that a certain god exists, based on the fact that all of the stories are merely anecdotal, and at best simply made up.

Not to mention all of the properties that people simply do make up and attribute to the myth.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: luthier

In short, i don't believe in god for the same reason you don't believe in unicorns and gnomes. The evidence is unconvincing.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: luthier




So you do not claim god does not exist?


I claim that the supernatural doesn't exist. I can find a definition of god that I can use for the sake of conversation, for example, "god is everything that is." There! God exists!


Prove it.

What about quantum phenomenom, the holographic universe, virtual particles etc. Perhaps something out there has a deeper understanding of manipulation than we do. Maybe supernatural situations have a physical explaination. What about cancer patients changing there dna through meditation? Maybe its all just waiting to be defined by science.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: luthier

In short, i don't believe in god for the same reason you don't believe in unicorns and gnomes. The evidence is unconvincing.


Have you read the finely tuned universe concept? It doesnt point toward a deity but perhaps a designer?

I dont believe in deities myself but there is some pretty solid rational arguments out there using science even.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: luthier

The finely tuned universe argument is just another name for Creationism. It's a name invented so that Creationists can make their theory sound sciency. But it is equally flawed because it views the current state of the universe as a destination the universe was MEANT to achieve, but that is an unfounded assumption. There is no evidence to say that the universe has a purpose



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Atheism is a religion and yes i used some humor but in all honesty. Atheists legitimately believe they *evolved* from Monkies.

And i was not lieing being here in the North Americas. You can't pass science class unless you swallow all this nonsense.
People apparently know how old rocks are too. And you need to memorize how old they are and what their names are. Lets have a religion where common belief becomes the structual norm of society that holds our fabricated realities together. Last time i checked, we are spinning around a ball of fire drifting through empty space and if i or someone has a different explaination outside the cultured norm the one belief on non-creatorism trumps the professional industry because to them. Anything other than the status quo is blaspheme. Because many professions that generate high income require a faith baised ideology and in the North West as well as the U.K, China- Global Atheism.

And your reply redicules it like as if it's some sort of joke.

Yet here we are on a part of the internet that is a little unorthadox in the ways we approach say conspiracy theories.
I'd say that there is a conspiracy for atheists to deny the regimented system other atheists have webbed together into the organized religion that denies it is a religion.

Yet Atheism is a fully government funded religious organization. In terms of how i described how they decide who is and isn't credible.
edit on pm70000003115Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:15:27 -0500 by AnuTyr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: luthier




So you do not claim god does not exist?


I claim that the supernatural doesn't exist. I can find a definition of god that I can use for the sake of conversation, for example, "god is everything that is." There! God exists!


Prove it.

What about quantum phenomenom, the holographic universe, virtual particles etc. Perhaps something out there has a deeper understanding of manipulation than we do. Maybe supernatural situations have a physical explaination. What about cancer patients changing there dna through meditation? Maybe its all just waiting to be defined by science.
One cannot prove that something doesn't exist. We all know this. What we can prove is that there is no good reason to believe that god exists.

Quantum phenomenon, only shows us how the physical world operates. Nothing more.

Holographic universe is just a thought. Even the guy who teaches it understands that it is a wild hypothesis.

Science has shown time after time that what our ancestors thought were supernatural occurrences were simply physical events that they were unaware of. For example, weather, germs, schizophrenia and other mental disorders.



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