What are the concepts behind the belief sytem of Atheism?

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: luthier

Because if you admit you can not prove there is a god you are agnostic.

Most intellectually honest religious people, even the most devout, will admit that they can't prove that their god exists. Does that make them agnostic too?

I can't prove that any gods do not exist, but I have no beliefs or expectation of any gods. I consider myself an atheist. But when pressed to converse about the possibility of a god, I can hypothesize that IF a god does exist then it is a natural phenomena of some sort of cosmic consciousness that has arisen naturally from the universe itself. There may be more than one example of such an occurrence, as well, in that case.

I don't think I need to prove that the universe exists, nor do I need to prove that consciousness exists. But if the religious insist that the reality of the existence of these two things proves the existence of their god, then I say that their god is nothing more than the culmination of everything that exists.

Am I an atheist, like I believe I am in your eyes, or am I agnostic?



No agnostics make no claim one way or the other. A person of faith believes and knows god exists from faith they dont feel the need to prove it. Some did and wrote papers on it. Its a whole section of philosophy called epistimology.

edit on 16-7-2015 by luthier because: (no reason given)

a reply to: windword

Sorry,

Can you show me someone you know alive living here in the US that this has happened too?

What some self proclaimed "sect, nation, or organization" had done a century or more ago have to do with say Baptists today?

Nothing.

That is like blaming the Italians for the sins of the Roman Empire.

originally posted by: gottaknow
a reply to: luthier

Consider something that YOU do not believe exists, be it fairies, Santa Claus, Slender Man, Bigfoot, etc.

Do you "believe" that they don't exist or do you have a lack of belief in them whatsoever?

Substitute "God" instead of what you've chosen as your thing that is not to be believed and that is how atheists perceive the idea of "God". It is a lack of belief. An understanding that such a concept is as nonsensical as the belief of leprechauns, unicorns or the dragons of fancy.

Now consider the possibility of Aliens(the humanoid kind) somewhere out there in the Universe. They could exist. They might exist. Some certainly believe that they DO exist, but the majority of us cannot be sure of that one way or the other. This would be considered an agnostic approach to the existence of humanoid aliens out there in the Universe.

Editing to add this response isn't solely intended for luthier, but your post poised the question that I'm answering.

Good post. Good analogies. Thanks for bringing some clarity.

a reply to: Ghost147

Dammit, man, don't open up this kettle of worms again--this dead horse has been beaten to death on this site.

The bottom line is that atheism is an acceptance of a lack of actual evidence or proof of a religious god. I don't believe that god(s) doesn't/don't exist, I accept the fact that there isn't enough evidence to prove to me that there is, therefore I must, at this point in my life, believe that all the claims are tantamount to claiming that there is a witch who lives in the German forest that lives in a house made of candy and loves to cook small children.

That said, I do believe the children are our future--teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside.

a reply to: luthier

No agnostics make no claim one way or the other.

As if agnostics can't muse on the subject......

You've completely disregarded my comment in your reply. Your dismissal is noted. You have no intention of any real conversation. You just want to blindly and illogically promote your view that atheism is just another religion. Instead of addressing my argument, my perception and sincere explanation of my atheism, you've retorted some vapid reply that reinforces just how unscientific, illogical and unnecessary gods are.

a reply to: luthier

I saw a cartoon about a talking mouse. I don't really think they exist. I don't spend any time thinking about talking mice. Is that a belief system, or faith according to your straw-man definitions embedded in your arguments?

a reply to: windword

You know, I claim that there is no god, but not in an absolute sense--just that I have yet to see enough proof or empirical evidence to verify the existence of such a supernatural being. But I'm open to the possibility, if proof were to be found, obviously.

Does that make me agnostic, or just a weak atheist? Or just intelligent--willing to change my view in the presence of new evidence?

a reply to: infolurker
I think you're feigning ignorance, but...

Can you show me someone you know alive living here in the US that this has happened too?

Today the sword part is figurative, but the rest of your question is easily answered. How about Jesus camps, and Christian conversion camps for starters?

What some self proclaimed "sect, nation, or organization" had done a century or more ago have to do with say Baptists today?

Not a century ago. People(teens) get "kidnapped for Jesus" today. And lets not forget your fellow dominionists, either.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: luthier

No agnostics make no claim one way or the other.

As if agnostics can't muse on the subject......

You've completely disregarded my comment in your reply. Your dismissal is noted. You have no intention of any real conversation. You just want to blindly and illogically promote your view that atheism is just another religion. Instead of addressing my argument, my perception and sincere explanation of my atheism, you've retorted some vapid reply that reinforces just how unscientific, illogical and unnecessary gods are.

Actually my phone died and i couldnt edit my comment but....please dont bring offense to a conversation youbwilling enetered about your faith or belief or what you call it. That is why pwople cant debate.

a reply to: infolurker

You're delusional if you don't think that remnants of forced adherence don't still linger in today's culture. How about taking a look at the Residential School for the indigenous people of lands conquered in the name of the monarchy and the Cross?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: infolurker

As there are many types of Atheists (you cannot put them all in a box), there are also those types who are "Evangelical and or Militant" that practice Atheism as a religion and have their "great commission" of winning converts just as any other religion.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. What would you expect after thousands of years of forced indoctrination at the end of sword?

This is a great example of the utter disdain and hateful rhetoric used to try to turn people away from true Christianity. I have seen the same from not only militant and evangelical atheists, but also people from other religions, especially the New Agers.

Your American attending a say a Nazarene church in Chicago has absolutely zero connection to the crusades, witch trials, or any other nonsense that is spouted that occurred by organizations claiming "Christianity" in the past century or millennium unless they actively support the continuation of those practices.

And any that do today are probably already on a government watch list or are identified as a true hate group.

a reply to: luthier

I'm at a loss how you could take what I said and call it a "faith or belief". Shaking my head!

originally posted by: olbe66
a reply to: luthier

I saw a cartoon about a talking mouse. I don't really think they exist. I don't spend any time thinking about talking mice. Is that a belief system, or faith according to your straw-man definitions embedded in your arguments?

I am well aware of the whole cosmic teapot argument its a failure. You are tue straw man. The difference is if you have knolwedge of epistemology there are proofs of god thst follow logical thought. Just because you are not aware of them doesnt mean they dont exist.

If there is tea all over the universe it isnt irrational to believe there is a cosmic teapot.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: luthier

I'm at a loss how you could take what I said and call it a "faith or belief". Shaking my head!

Ok thats helpful debating.

a reply to: infolurker

Again, you delusional if you think that those congregations don't have roots that stem from forced indoctrination and the required adherence to blind faith.

a reply to: luthier

You haven't addressed anything in my comment to debate. You've sidestepped any substantial comments for vapid incoherent rhetoric.

a reply to: Ghost147

The term Atheist describes a person who does not believe in god/s. That is to say we don't find any of the descriptions or definitions of gods/deitys, so far put forth, by any of the known world's religions, to be convincing.
That is the only parameter by which we judge whether or not a person is an atheist. We don't believe in your gods because your anectdotal stories aren't convincing.

It is one thing. That we do not believe. Although many other things follow after this one is realised to be untrue.

a reply to: luthier

If there is tea all over the universe it isnt irrational to believe there is a cosmic teapot.

Oh man! Tea is a plant. Tea literally grows on bushes. If there's tea everywhere, maybe it rained!

a reply to: infolurker

How about the planned parenthood docs killed by fundamentalist?

Can you show me someone you know alive living here in the US that this has happened too?

Link

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Ghost147

The term Atheist describes a person who does not believe in god/s. That is to say we don't find any of the descriptions or definitions of gods/deitys, so far put forth, by any of the known world's religions, to be convincing.

Does it include philosophical concepts? Pantheism? What about the suggestions of a nudge by somwthing in the finely tuned universe concept?

Just trying to be clear not argueing one wat or the other. And it was your name I had to say something to another woodworker.