If The US Civil War Was Fought Over Slavery What's Left To Argue About?

originally posted by: jaffo

originally posted by: RickinVa
If there are ever reparations for slavery..... a whole bunch of white people are going to get paid.

There were more whites held in slavery than blacks.... the whites slaves were considered inferior to black slaves and sold for much cheaper prices. Or so I heard.

That is absolutely not true. Although the first slaves in the New World were in fact white.

LOL do some research and get back to me... I dare you to prove that there were not more whites held in slavery in this country than blacks .....and in fact they were valued less and sold for way less than the black slaves.

Go for it... I will be awaiting your proof.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Let's say you were poor white boy in the south and your family never owned a slave ever, you had no plans to own a slave or buy one, in fact maybe you were progressive for a southerner and neutral on the matter. You never even joined the army of the Confederacy. But then you hear what happened when the north invaded 3 counties over pillaging and burning peoples properties, and they are coming your way. Now you feel you have no choice but to join the state militia and defend your land.
For that soldier the war was not about slavery but protecting his property and home, and if he joined the militia of Tennessee he may have charged into battle under that very flag. If he died his decedents would honor his valor with that very same flag.

This is a great post and explanation of the simple reason why many fought.
The idea of people condemning them as racist, murderous traitors is a complete inversion of the truth and personally it burns me up.
They were not perfect people but they gave their lives doing what they thought right.
A far braver lot than most Americans today whose beliefs only go so far as someone else is willing to make sacrifices for.

When two armies fight and one LOOSES, flying the loser flag after the fact is usually seen as some form of treason. For example, the Nazi flag is not flown in Germany by patriots and sympathisers. Not without the correct response from the law..

Might want to read this the issue was much more complicated then just slavery.


www.civilwar.org...://www.google.com/

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Let's say you were poor white boy in the south and your family never owned a slave ever, you had no plans to own a slave or buy one, in fact maybe you were progressive for a southerner and neutral on the matter. You never even joined the army of the Confederacy. But then you hear what happened when the north invaded 3 counties over pillaging and burning peoples properties, and they are coming your way. Now you feel you have no choice but to join the state militia and defend your land.
For that soldier the war was not about slavery but protecting his property and home, and if he joined the militia of Tennessee he may have charged into battle under that very flag. If he died his decedents would honor his valor with that very same flag.

Wish I could give more than 1 star...

Second...

Peter Schiff: " We Are All Slaves! " ...plus some Civil War facts that are not being vigorously promoted by America's "elite" NWO social engineers.

Confederate False Flag! ...if you don't see it as a deceptive diversion that's been dishonestly devised by the ruling "elite" to help divide this country, then you may need to have your eyes examined.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

As a Libertarian you can wave your awful flags, I don't care... The Confederate Flag is nowhere near as bad as The Stars & Bars to me or the USUKing Double-Cross (The UK Union Jack) or The ISUS Flag or even The Bloody-Thin Red Cross of The English, my nation of birth, as these represent modern day fascism - globally in many cases, now-a-days.... I do believe in Nation States - very low key ones, run by and for the people..... I can't ban flags in my ideal state BUT I'VE NEVER WAVED WON/ONE and never will.............
And the notion of PROMOTING SACRIFICE FOR STATE is wrong in my book.... The Civil War was a classic example of how UBER STATES POLARISE and fight MASSIVE WARS...... All your States would be better off if they were all NATION STATES.... The British Isles are a nice size for a single country - and I wish they were One Nation, Ireland included - but this must come from the bottom, up, not top-down....... UK Sucks - EU even more.... The USA sucks - as a neo system of uber-governation - which itself sucks...... I'd like to see Real Direct Democracy phase in people power, in a techno-civilised way..... Instead it looks like the uber-techno-dictatorship nightmare will be the NEXT AMERICAN CIVIL WAR - more every year....... INDIVIDUAL BANNERS are more my thing - but don't like banning stuff unless it's vital (to liberty)...

How much has our defunct educational system contributed to this argument? Our school textbooks have made the rebel flag a symbol of slavery. If the last several generations had been taught the truth, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

In my red neck area, the confederate flag symbolizes the underdog Rebel. In small ways they buck the system, but they also already know they dont have a prayer to win the whole war.

The same symbology attached to the confederate flag, slavery, oppression, white privilege, is how the rest of the world sees our current stars and stripes flag. Rather than war over a long dead battle flag, shouldnt we be uniting to change the image of the flag that currently waves over our homeland?

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
The confederate flag stands for racism, slavery, dehumanization, violence against other non caucasian races, and pro segregation, it always has and always will be bad for America. Nothing good will ever come from it.

People who fly it dont care that they offend people it could actually be seen as a provocation to incite violence. Go wave one on a college campus or downtown in a city center, in any state you will only provoke people. If your raising a confederate flag you know your provoking people and your doing it on purpose, done be suprised when there is blowback.

It deserves no place of honor in our modern society, those who honor such things dont deserve a place in our modern society.

Simple question...if you respond please limit your response to the question asked. Do you believe that we should live in a country where we can not, or where it should be illegal to offend another person? And if you say "yes"...REALLY????????

What does that have to do with the true racist history of the dixicrat chosen confederate emblem, and the true history of the confederacy fighting for the rights to own slaves?

So because a symbol has been hijacked by ignorant groups using it for bad, it should be completely stricken from the landscape? That could be said about A LOT of other symbols as well, and we're back to the slippery slope.

a reply to: misskat1

NOW it is a hijacked symbol taken by many faction that tie together many fascistic types (as do all national flags, old an new, really)....... Like the ISUS flag.. In this day and age where we each have our own catchphrase and/or visual symbol, even on this very board, group flags are further highlighted as fascistic, them & us, symbols.... The New Way is more Me & You as separate individuals - 1 to 1...... I put British Isles, not The UK or England as my nation, on purpose - as it is not an official nation...

Imagine a nation where for each major (inter)national event a new flag is designed in a national competition voted on by the public, for fun, with no permanent national symbol of continuing fascistic/socialistic/monarchistic/uber-state OPPRESSION.......! ALL FLAGS PERMITTED too..

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

The flag has a history that cannot be erased, its a history of evil, in its darkest sense. Only a fool would attempt to represent something he or she knows nothing about. If people dont know the history of the confederacy and the dixiecrats then they shouldnt by any means fly the flag, because they are doing so out of ignorance. When I say learn the history I mean the true history of what was done and what it meant in 1948, how it was used to oppose desegregation and oppress people. Learn all that then fly it with pride if your still proud of all that evil. . . .

But do not sit there and try and say all that evil BS didnt happen, and the flag doesnt represent all that evil BS.

I see Some very strange things going on in this Good Old US of A.
Senators Representatives and The President do Underhanded things on
a Daily Basis.
Criminal activities in my Opinion.
Killing innocent Civilians more than a few times.
Waging War with Countries that never did anything to US.
Just a lot of Stupid Legislation to Screw the Majority of We The People.

I still Fly OLD GLORY.
Not because of what some idiots do or did.
It's Because I Love my Country That I Proudly Served to Defend.

That's why I Fly my Flag and many others Fly their Confederate Flag for other
Reasons Than SLAVERY.
I'm Offended by A Lot of Religious People but I Don't tell them to Shut Up.

a reply to: ph0enix

I've always considered flag waving a grotesquely sheeple-nation thing, even when I was a kid..... Always yobs - and put me off... I've never waved a flag, my nation is nasty, globally and The Flag(s) are oppressive to me......... But it's anybody's right to wave any flags if not sexually obscene - and if not part of a mass demonstration of 100s of people then 'Curse Words' can result in a fine...... Would be a fairish, pretty Libertarian compromise, law-wise...... Even the Nazi Flag, that I hate as much as the cross with the dead guy on it, symbol-wise......

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

No. The flag hasn't been "used in hate crimes". The flag was a symbol that someone who did a hate crime seemed to embrace. I bet they all also had crosses hanging either around their necks or in their house somewhere. The Civil Rights movement was marked by burning crosses.

The Cross is a symbol of racism that incites violence in people.

Dude are you serious? Do you know how many lynchings and people were burned alive while people were holding those flags and cheering. People used to throw parties and kill people for fun even after it was outlawed, and of course the police of old looked the other way. Just look into it a little before you make blanket statements like people have never used the confederate flag when they are performing hate crimes. . . . . .

Ok.....now think Iraq and Afghanistan. US flag waving troops (the good guys) . Iraqi civilians (bad guys allegedly,) Children burned, houses bombs 'terrorists' killed, depleted uranium polluting and destroying an entire nation.
Do you have ANY IDEA what soldiers under the banner and authority of the stars and stripes (that represents YOU) are doing out there in your name and under your flag?

originally posted by: amazing
Funny enough you can actually look up all the documents pertaining to why the states left the Union, which was the core reason for the civil war. Those states actually left the United States of America. The underlying reason, or main reason they left the United States of America was slavery. It's right there for you to research. Especially pertaining to Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina and Texas.

But do some research and you'll see, Slavery WAS the reason for the Civil War.

Here's a quote from Texas....

“We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.”

“The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution […] The general opinion of the men of that day [Revolutionary Period] was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution [slavery] would be evanescent and pass away […] Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.”

Go read Jefferson Davis inauguration speech, and slavery was not mentioned, it talks a lot about economic reasons for the war though.

a reply to: PrivateSi

Before the Civil War the individual states did consider themselves autonomous states, a statement backed up by any plain reading of the 10th Amendment stating "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

There was nothing about states being required to remain forever in the Union. It was assumed upon adoption that states could later opt out if they felt the central government no longer represented them. The Southern states felt that was the case and collectively decided leave the Union and form their own country. They were trying to keep their basic democratic rights. Lincoln had other ideas and thus 4 years of hell were unleashed.

There's nothing awful about the flag itself, it wasn't even the flag of the Confederacy.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I got PLENTY of Civil War history during schooling.

Yes and the US education system does such a great job of teaching history. It is cherry-picked facts that barely touch on anything of real substance. The civil war taught in schools is [and has been] a watered down version of events. It was the easy way to tell the masses that it was about slavery. Because slavery = bad. The masses wouldn't understand the real reasons it happened.
With all this BS over this flag, it makes me laugh because of all the other flags that have no right to be flown get a pass. No taking down of Mexican flags because well that might offend Mexicans and remember my formula. Slavery=bad. So anything else is a non-issue.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I realise that states can secede - and half the world wishes they would - and go their separate ways... I support your right to wave your flag of resistance against Washington.. I want us to end 'The Special Relationship' between US & UK, too... It feels like we are a de facto US and EU state.. I respect Texas, even if some of their radio representatives are biased loud mouths - and politicians the dodgiest in history..

There are many here who want out of The EU and UK - and then there are those like me who want a far looser knit 'British Isles' - pretty much for a few international sporting events only (The day The Irish get on board I'll eat my hat though)..... The British Sporting Union / !BRITISH ISLANDERS UNITED! if you like.... We will accept each others' currencies with no exchange fees, automatically converted to each nations' own currency and protect each other if aggressively invaded..... This model could work for The US - and would enable you to bring it under control to stop wasting and ENSLAVING THE WORLD... The Globalista Banksters & Yanksters playing all nations like fools.......

originally posted by: dragonridr
Might want to read this the issue was much more complicated then just slavery.


www.civilwar.org...://www.google.com/

From your link, Jefferson Davis Inaugural address;

Should reason guide the action of the Government from which we have separated, a policy so detrimental to the civilized world, the Northern States included, could not be dictated by even the strongest desire to inflict injury upon us; but otherwise a terrible responsibility will rest upon it, and the suffering of millions will bear testimony to the folly and wickedness of our aggressors.

Yet history as written by Northern interests would place the blame squarely on the Confederacy alone. They like to say the South fired on Ft Sumter first when the first shots of the war were fired 6 months earlier by John Brown and his confederates in an ill-conceived attempt to seize the Federal arsenal at Harper's Ferry West Virginia to arm a rebellion to end slavery. Nobody was killed at Ft. Sumter by the way, the raid on Harper's Ferry cost 10 lives.

The radical abolitionists were very much thought the terrorists of the time posing a danger to all who lived in the South.