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If The US Civil War Was Fought Over Slavery What's Left To Argue About?

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posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: Thorneblood

I firmly believe this entire flap is the doing of social engineers working through the media and various institutions..
They are once again trying to further divide the population of the United States in order to consolidate their power.
The true enemies of freedom have always sought to expand their dominance into every aspect of our lives.



I think you're right, and in Kansas City at the La Raza convention we might have seen some of the first moves toward why they suddenly hate the Confederate flag.

KCK has a mayor named Mark Holland, and he the Naddress edational Convention of La Raza. This is what he had to say:


Kansas City, Kansas, is a city with no ethnic majority. Kansas City, Kansas, is 40 percent white, 28 percent Latino, and 26 percent African-American,” Holland told the crowd. “Our school district speaks 62 different languages by the children every single day.”

“We continue to have a number of groups of refugees from around the world,” he continued. “We have a large group of Hmong refugees from the Vietnam War who were allies with the United States, who have a strong presence in Kansas City, Kansas, as well.”

Holland intimated that Kansas City’s inclusive environment has allowed Democrats to gain a stronghold within the city and promote their policy agendas.

“We now are home to another group that has a settlement in Kansas City, Kansas. A highly persecuted group in the state of Kansas: the Democrats.” Holland said, “Democrats still have a foothold in Kansas City, Kansas, and we’re very proud of that. And because Democrats are in Wyandotte County, we welcome our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters and celebrate their life and their love, and always will.


First off, I'm not sure how 40% does not constitute a majority unless you are declaring that it's basically all of us against those evil white folks, but when addressing a group like La Raza, maybe you are. Also, Democrats are persecuted because Kansans generally don't like their agenda and policy positions? If Democrats are persecuted, than so are Christians and other groups who simply aren't agreed with or liked very much. I daily get told that Christians have a persecution complex, so I guess Kansas Democrats like Holland must too.

But, here's the money shot where the Confederate Flag is concerned:



Holland, an ordained Methodist minister, then went on the attack against any Christians who don’t share his liberal theological views on same-sex marriage.

He applauded the recent 5-4 Supreme Court decision that redefined marriage for all 50 states.

“But we cannot let our guard down. This religious freedom component, I believe is the Confederate Flag of religious bigotry, being flown long after the fact,” Holland said. “As an ordained United Methodist pastor myself, I’m offended to note, when they say Christians are offended by the ruling. In fact, many of us Christians celebrate the ruling and the continued welcome and recognition of all people. But I want to close by saying we just couldn’t be more proud that La Raza is here in Kansas City and it’s an honor to be able to greet you.”


So now, it seems that we are linking religious freedom to the Confederate flag which has become a symbol of slavery and hatred and bigotry. So what does that say for the future of the 1st Amendment? Oh, and of course, lest you think he is against the 1st Amendment, religion, and Christianity, he makes sure to establish his bona fides. He can't hate religion or be against religious freedom you see because he IS a Christian.

And before someone hacks at me for using WND and Breitbart as quoting sources, I am linking to this radio podcast from one of local talk radio shows. In it, there are actual sound bites of what I quoted the mayor as saying above. Carson starts talking about the mayor's speech at the 8 minute mark and the part linking in the Confederate flag comes at about 15 minutes. They have the mayor in his own words saying these things directly.




posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 10:52 AM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

The rectangular version which is also the Navy jack was the standard of the Confederate Army of Tennessee.

I am familiar with the articles of secession and you're right that slavery was a major reason for it.

What you're wrong about is why the South fought and what the flag meant to them who fought under it.

It doesn't matter who has used and appropriated the flag since, the original meaning came from the Confederate soldiers.

It has nothing to do with the Dixiecrats, the KKK or the Dukes of Hazard.

And if you think racism only comes from Whites you need to get outside your gated community.



Who is saying only whites can be racist? Any race or gender can be racist scum of the earth.

It has everything to do with the dixiecrats because they are the ones who made it the confederate flag, or chose to use it in thier protests, after that and only after that did people begin to use that flag to represent the confederacy. Also it was for racist purposes. That is just factual history.

The civil war was about slavery that is just a fact, look at what the people said they were fighting for. . . . They said we are fighting for the rights to own slaves! Its just a historical fact!

The flag has since then been used for countless hate crimes before and after the civil rights movement from 1940s-2015
and all that history has been bad, up to the most recent attack on an African American church that killed a US senator for what?. . . . . . . Racism of course.

The flag has a history that cannot be erased, its a history of evil, in its darkest sense. Only a fool would attempt to represent something he or she knows nothing about. If people dont know the history of the confederacy and the dixiecrats then they shouldnt by any means fly the flag, because they are doing so out of ignorance. When I say learn the history I mean the true history of what was done and what it meant in 1948, how it was used to oppose desegregation and oppress people. Learn all that then fly it with pride if your still proud of all that evil. . . .

But do not sit there and try and say all that evil BS didnt happen, and the flag doesnt represent all that evil BS.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

No. The flag hasn't been "used in hate crimes". The flag was a symbol that someone who did a hate crime seemed to embrace. I bet they all also had crosses hanging either around their necks or in their house somewhere. The Civil Rights movement was marked by burning crosses.

The Cross is a symbol of racism that incites violence in people.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 11:08 AM
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The problem is, is this isn't a clear cut issue. Even the eggheads in academia don't agree on what primary reason was for the south to seed from the Union.

I posit it's a combination of different factors. The institution of slavery is an underlying reason of most if not all. The South depended on slavery to drive it's economy (minus Texas) and where remarkable and notorious racist and I mean that in the literally sense, among the slave states common belief was that Africans and their descendants (slaves) where dull dim whited primitive version of man while Europeans and all her descendants are the superior design. They even had it down to science but heck, that was the common belief at that time... *rolls eyes*

The South wanted and needed slavery and got jumped the gun once other states started entering the Union that where either against or mute against it.

I find it ironic that Europe used the Transatlantic slave trade to enrich themselves and they don't have no where near the baggage that the United States has, goodness gracious!



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

No. The flag hasn't been "used in hate crimes". The flag was a symbol that someone who did a hate crime seemed to embrace. I bet they all also had crosses hanging either around their necks or in their house somewhere. The Civil Rights movement was marked by burning crosses.

The Cross is a symbol of racism that incites violence in people.


Dude are you serious? Do you know how many lynchings and people were burned alive while people were holding those flags and cheering. People used to throw parties and kill people for fun even after it was outlawed, and of course the police of old looked the other way. Just look into it a little before you make blanket statements like people have never used the confederate flag when they are performing hate crimes. . . . . .



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Um how is the Confederate flag different from the Natzi swastika? When someone can romanticize the Confederate flag like that please explain to me why the Germans outlawed the natzi swastika?

I HAVE lost allot of respect for people defending this flag and romantisizing it and saying it is something to be proud of. I know we have our bill of rights sure, fly at your house etc. But I am AGAINST flying it anywhere I pay taxes. PERIOD.

edit on b482015-07-16T11:48:07-05:00America/Chicago73176 by Bicent76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: cenpuppie

It wasn't just the South that thought Africans were inferior. The North thought that too. Abolitionists were more radical than people realize today, and even many abolitionists still held that blacks were not the equal of whites. We are talking about the times of extremely early social Darwinism, so those of primitive cultures were seen as naturally inferior even in the enlightened North. So yes, they had it down to science. It wouldn't be the first time science gets it wrong, and it won't be the last.

And people should remember that nowhere in the world and no culture is untouched by slavery. About the only thing unique to American slavery is that we fought a Civil War to end it.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Yes we did..

Abraham Lincoln, was before his time indeed.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: Bicent76
a reply to: ketsuko

Yes we did..

Abraham Lincoln, was before his time indeed.


Not really. He was only interested in keeping the Union together, not freeing the slaves. He did it primarily to cause chaos in the South, not because he felt bad for blacks, and he favored resettling all blacks in Liberia.

That what he did was the right thing was incidental and more tactical than anything else.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

you have your right to your opinion...



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: Bicent76
a reply to: ketsuko

you have your right to your opinion...


It's hardly opinion. It's documented fact.

That doesn't change the fact that he ended up doing what was right, but he's hardly the shining white knight we were all taught he was in school.
edit on 16-7-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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Hers is the good Ole US flag being proudly displayed. Just saying.
whatreallyhappened.com...



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I don't have it as materially important in my own mind.

The flag didn't jump up and yell "Grab that man!" Nor did the flag get used as a weapon. It was a symbol that a group embraced. The same group was also embracing the cross, and proclaiming that white people were gods chosen people.

You are ignoring the inconvenient history there to prop up your argument. Because if the rebel flag is a symbol of opression and racism, so is the Christian cross.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: Bicent76
a reply to: ketsuko

Yes we did..

Abraham Lincoln, was before his time indeed.


the only reason good old Abe Lincoln wanted to abolish slavery was to address economic issues. He even supported the view that slaves were measured at less than a man. Taken from the Lincoln-Douglas debates:


“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I think he had been thinking about ending slavery in America, for a long time.. The how is the grey area in history I suppose...

Yet he did make the law that made all men free....

He was ahead of his time, whether he knew it or not.. He thought differently and his stand on slavery and equal rights for blacks evolved thru out his presidency.

In any case I am not going to debate lincoln, on this thread.. Not to mention lincoln, is not here to tell us what he really thinks anyway..

History remembers him for what he did. Not for how he did it.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: Bicent76

Lincoln may have written speeches and issued proclamations but it was by the fighting and blood of the Union soldiers that any slaves were freed at all.
I just want to see to see credit given when due.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: Bicent76

True history is remembering it all, even with the warts, otherwise you are only learning fairy tales, myths and legends as made up as Robin Hood.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 07:22 PM
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The battle flag is a symbol from the Civil War


The flag in question was created by the DIXIECRATS in the late 40's yes ?

www.washingtonpost.com...

Well back in the 90s when Clinton Gore was using them wasn't much of a problem.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 07:26 PM
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One more for the road



edit on 16-7-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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Oh I lied one more for the one more.





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