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LIVE: Greeks react to the Parliament’s vote on eurozone agreement

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posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 07:50 AM

originally posted by: defcon25
It annoys me when people blame the average greek citizen for the financial troubles their country is facing.
Personally I think their problems mainly come from a succession of corrupt self-serving overpaid politicians who have incurred a huge debt on Greece.Unfortunately it is the Greek people who suffer the misery while the Parasite Politicians get off scot-free.

And it annoys me when those average Greek citizens tell me via chat (or their politicians/economists via media) that they are not to blame for the faul actions their corrupt politicians committed within this present decade...

...yet somehow us evil Germans are still responsible for the actions of our politicians from 70 years ago?!

It's okay when generations of ze evil Germans pay billions of €uros for WWII, up until this very decade... but the Greek citizen is not to blame for their contemporary politicians bills - and ze evil German taxpayer might aswell foot that bill too.

Yeah right... someone has to explain to me how exactly democratic accountability works again.
edit on 19-7-2015 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 08:43 AM
a reply to: ScepticScot

But it is not an political economical German ideology, it is the only way for Greece to regain competitiveness and be able to stand on its own feet again when the economy grows again and the deficit has turned into a budget surplus.
With that the trust from the markets is regained which means the interest comes down to sustainable levels and Greece is able to enter the capital market again.
They were well on track last year but all that progress has been destroyed in the last 7 months.

It does not matter if Greece is in the eurozone or not, if they had left the eurozone in 2010 they still would not have been able to borrow unless they had paid an unsustainable interest on their debt.

It would have wiped out all the savings of the Greek people through massive inflation of the drachma and imports would have been to expensive.
If they had left the eurozone the Greek would not have seen their pensions and salaries cut, but they would have been a lot poorer than they are now.

Today it is not very different, the main difference is that the debt is now held by the european taxpayers since 2012 when private investors took a haircut of 108 billion and debt was restructured against 1.5 percent interest which Greece does not have to pay before 2020.

In my opinion the rest of europe has been more than generous to the Greeks by helping them to lower the debt to sustainable levels.

Is it then to much too ask of the greeks to do their part? in my opinion no.
The option that was put on the table last week for Greece to leave the eurozone was because if they remain in the eurozone writing off debt is not possible, but it would be possible if they left for a period, and during which they can regain competitiveness according to their own ideas.
Obviously Tsipras did not want to leave, neither do the greeks and their government who voted yes overwhelmingly to stay within the eurozone and accept the fact that they have to cut spending.

Now ask yourself, why, after all the pain the greek people went through between 2010 and 2014, after all the progress that was made, the deficit was down, the economy growing again, Greece almost able to access the capital market again,.. why did Syriza destroyed all that? for what?
And why the sudden turn around when their economy lies in ruins and their banks insolvent?

Has this been done on purpose in an effort to destroy the eurozone?
It sure has destroyed Greece, while they had better times ahead last year, now they face at least 3 more years of austerity because of the damage done in the past 7 months including capital controls.

posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 08:48 AM
a reply to: ColCurious

I didn't blame Germany for Greeces financial problems and did not say that so I don't have a clue as to why you are attacking me?

I'm British and we may have to fund some of their bailout aswell.

posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 09:07 AM
a reply to: defcon25

I knew you're a Brit, and I wasn't attacking you. And you're damn right you're gonna pay aswell.
My point is that there are currently several inconsistent perceptions of democratic accountability flying arround.

Either the people (in the so-called free world) are indeed the highest political body (and heir) of their respective nations... or not.

If they are - they are fully accountable. At least that is what we were told in school over here.

If for some reason the Greek people are not responsible - then why are europeans from net-contributing nations?
And if it is in fact all their previous politicians fault - then why are those politicians not in jail?

posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 10:29 AM
a reply to: ColCurious

I am not saying that the Greek people don't have any accountability or resposibility as to their financial troubles,all I was saying was that the previous corrupt governments in Greece have played the biggest part in accumulating their massive debt and they are mainly at fault for the financial ruin Greece is now in.
I personally believe that the lenders are as much to blame as the borrowers though,would you agree?

I don't know why their corrupt politicians are not in jail,they should be imo.

BTW. I had to add this when I noticed you said this in your first post:

...yet somehow us evil Germans are still responsible for the actions of our politicians from 70 years ago?!

That is entirely different.
That is a whole other debate I'm not getting into.

To compare the Nazi German Atrocities in the 2nd World War which were not only commited by the Politicians as some of the ordinary German people were also complicit aswell to the Financial Situation in Greece is quite a leap.
edit on 19-7-2015 by defcon25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-7-2015 by defcon25 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 01:02 PM
a reply to: defcon25

Listen, I'm not trying to trivialise the atrocities of Nazi-Germany.
Of course I wouldn't compare WWII-warcrimes with theft and fraud.
I was talking about democratic participation and subsequently liability only...

posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 02:39 PM
a reply to: ColCurious

My apologies I have misunderstood your post.
Well in that case I think in someways we agree.
I am not saying that the Greek people can take no responsibility for their situation but there are also other parties involved that are to blame aswell but they won't be held accountable.

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