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The hypocrisy of the pro-life argument

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posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing Krazyshot of doing? You are assuming that he/she wants to kill babies up to the day before they are supposed to be delivered even though they said nothing of the sort. All the while crying about unfair assumptions they are making about "pro-lifers".

The real problem with this topic is the inability to discuss it rationally, objectively, and without any emotions. It's not the fault of anyone involved it is just the reality.

Some anti-abortionists are so adamant in making their opinions known and enforced that they are willing to kill people to get it done. How does that make sense? Some anti-abortionists are so adamant that the woman carrying the child doesn't have the right to make decisions for that child that they are willing and insist they need to make decisions for that woman. How does that make sense? To take the stance that abortion vs. anti-abortion is the same as Christians vs. the rest of the world is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with religion or non-religion.




posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 03:07 PM
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I never accused crazyshot of anything of the sort. We came to a consensus about this. I am just saying with fairly weak language it appears Wasserman wants unrestricted late term abortions which to me is extreme. Wanting to have the fetal viability clause overturned is extreme to me. I am only a person of opinion here. If you want to debate the specifics of the topic that is ok too. If I am not representing Wasserman fairly I would actually love to retract that soft claim. In my search I found she thought all abortions even those currently illegal should be legal. I didnt make a hard claim about this though.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

Really. Like, as a grandmother I don't know this.

And NO, a fetus is not a human. It is a potential human.


Apparently you don't understand what it means.

A human being is always evolving, his/her personality is always changing and always learning. This learning starts since the human is a fetus.

You obviously do not understand the difference between "human" and "person".


person

Definition of person in English:
noun (plural peopleˈpēpəl or persons)

1.
a human being regarded as an individual.
...

www.oxforddictionaries.com...


human being

noun
1.
any individual of the genus Homo, especially a member of the species Homo sapiens.
...

dictionary.reference.com...



individual

Definition of individual in English:
adjective
1 [attributive] Single; separate:
...

www.oxforddictionaries.com...

Aren't HUMAN fetuses part of the homo sapiens species?...

The fact that they need to be fed by his/her mother inside the womb doesn't make it part of the body of the mother. Just like the fact that a post-natal baby also needs the mother, or someone else to be fed and to survive in general.

A HUMAN fetus is a HUMAN BEING. A human being is considered an individual when he/she starts to develop her/his own personality. It doesn't have to be completely defined. In fact, the individuality of each person is not completely defined until they die. Even death is an experience that can change the personality of a person in her/his last moments of life.

BTW, because there are children suffering in the world is not an excuse to murder innocent HUMANS. The suffering that happens in the world happens for many different reasons.

In fact, many people try to help, for example to the people of Africa. But Africa has a society that is drunk with corruption. It has become a fact for most people in Africa, and those in power use that fact (corruption) to their advantage. It has become part of their lives. To be able to go to college in many parts of Africa those people have to bribe someone in power. Bribery is normal in Africa. Just like in Mexico.

Billions of dollars in aid are sent to Africa, but warlords, and people in power take over that food to take control of the people.

The only ways that can be changed is if as a miracle all people in Africa change completely and try to help each other. That is not going to happen as the world stands.

The other way is by sending the military to fight against those that use food as a weapon to control people. Are you willing to send your daughters and sons to fight for other people so they can have food?



edit on 19-7-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct post.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 08:18 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Annee

Really. Like, as a grandmother I don't know this.

And NO, a fetus is not a human. It is a potential human.


Apparently you don't understand what it means.

A human being is always evolving, his/her personality is always changing and always learning. This learning starts since the human is a fetus.

You obviously do not understand the difference between "human" and "person.


Really not interested in your emotional drama or excuses.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


A post-natal baby also has no defined personality...

This is totally false.

I worked not long ago as a newborn-photographer - and those babies, not even one day old, DEFINITELY showed "personalities". Some were fine with whatever, others would squawk if a bright light came on. Some were obviously put out (nonplussed) by the arguing of their parents and grandparents about how their name should be spelled.

And before that job, I was a parent educator, who linked up with expectant moms, took them to prenatal care, visited them once a week, drove them to the well-child clinic.....got to know their babies.....and EVERY ONE of those babies had different and very definite personalities - from the moment they were born.

Do you have any children?

I have two - carried them both in my womb, full term.
They are as different as can be. They BOTH had personalities from the time they started to kick in utero.

And those personalities persist to this day - 20-some years later.


edit on 7/19/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 08:30 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ElectricUniverse


A post-natal baby also has no defined personality...


I have two - carried them both in my womb, full term.
They are as different as can be. They BOTH had personalities from the time they started to kick in utero.

And those personalities persist to this day - 20-some years later.



OMG, mine are like black and white. And they were in utero.

And those personalities persist to this day -- 40+ years later.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: Annee


OMG, mine are like black and white. And they were in utero.

And those personalities persist to this day -- 40+ years later.


I know! Right????

Yes, they certainly do "come with" personalities....and those personalities stick the landing....

every time.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Annee


OMG, mine are like black and white. And they were in utero.

And those personalities persist to this day -- 40+ years later.


I know! Right????

Yes, they certainly do "come with" personalities....and those personalities stick the landing....

every time.


I have ADD Christian Martha Stewart and Hollywood drama wild child.

All children should be allowed to know themselves and parents should just guide them to know their strengths and weaknesses.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: Annee


All children should be allowed to know themselves and parents should just guide them to know their strengths and weaknesses.


Exactly.

EXACTLY!!! It is the job of the parents to understand and to nurture whatever strengths the child shows, and ALSO to teach the child to know their own weaknesses. Teaching children to identify their emotions is so very important.

And so few parents realize that.

Thanks, Annee.






posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 10:25 PM
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originally posted by: Annee


Really not interested in your emotional drama or excuses.


Of course, when you know your argument is flawed and it has been shown so, shift the blame and excuses to the opposite side...

Who is trying to make excuses claiming that HUMAN fetuses are not human beings?...



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ElectricUniverse


A post-natal baby also has no defined personality...

This is totally false.

I worked not long ago as a newborn-photographer - and those babies, not even one day old, DEFINITELY showed "personalities". Some were fine with whatever, others would squawk if a bright light came on. Some were obviously put out (nonplussed) by the arguing of their parents and grandparents about how their name should be spelled.

And before that job, I was a parent educator, who linked up with expectant moms, took them to prenatal care, visited them once a week, drove them to the well-child clinic.....got to know their babies.....and EVERY ONE of those babies had different and very definite personalities - from the moment they were born.

Do you have any children?

I have two - carried them both in my womb, full term.
They are as different as can be. They BOTH had personalities from the time they started to kick in utero.

And those personalities persist to this day - 20-some years later.



Didn't you see my statement that their personalities "start to develop" since they are a fetus? Even in the womb human fetuses can feel and become aware of their environment and can be affected by emotional trauma to the mother.



...
A human being is always evolving, his/her personality is always changing and always learning. This learning starts since the human is a fetus.
...


BTW, you are referring to certain "traits" within a persona that barely changes.

This can be seen by the babies that cry at almost anything, and those who don't cry so much. The fighters, and those who give up faster. Among some examples.

Certain "traits" in a persona can exist for all, or most of a life. But a trait is not an entire personality.




edit on 19-7-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 10:41 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Annee


Really not interested in your emotional drama or excuses.


Of course, when you know your argument is flawed and it has been shown so, shift the blame and excuses to the opposite side...

Who is trying to make excuses claiming that HUMAN fetuses are not human beings?...


Nope. Just not interested.

I'm hanging out by a pool, in the foothills of Palos Verdes, with my grandson, watching the rain, drinking an IPA.

Life wins. My way.


edit on 19-7-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 11:00 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

Nope.

Just not interested.



*closes eyes and plugs both ears with fingers and starts yelling* LALALALALALALALALA

Okay. Buh-bye
edit on 19-7-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: Annee




Good decision. No use in arguing with some.



posted on Jul, 19 2015 @ 11:22 PM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Annee




Good decision. No use in arguing with some.



I don't waste my time with the Abortion is Murder people.

Spotify. I'm actually on my computer right now for tunes. Later



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 06:47 AM
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originally posted by: westcoast
a reply to: Krazysh0t

For me, it is very, very simple. There are no further points than one.

1. Abortion is murder.


We are talking (disgustedly casually) about the callous and grotesque practice of dismembering and/or dissolving a living being alive and throwing it in the trash. (or if the practitioner is into making a extra buck and good at their late-term abortion techniques so as not to crush the 'samples', then the 'specimen' is sold). Your examples (or reasons to support abortion) are ridiculous.


Just because you refuse to think outside the narrow box of "Abortion = murder" doesn't mean my examples are ridiculous.


Too many 'unwanted' orphans in the states? So THAT is your justification? Well, then...

We don't have good enough mental health programs for the mentally ill. Certainly, no one wants those mumbling crazies on the street corner. Simple! We'll just kill them all.


This is called hyperbole.


We don't have enough properly managed nursing homes for our senior citizens and they are a 'burden' on society. I know! It's so simple....we'll just kill them!

All of those darn, disabled veterans pulling their tax free disability paychecks! They are a HUGE burden on our system. Have you seen them in the overcrowded and unfunded VA hospitals? Nobody WANTS them! I know! We'll just kill them.

Simple! Right?

That's your philosophy?


No.


And before you jump in to answer me; REALLY think about your reply, what was in the OP and what I just said. Unfortunately, it really IS the same thing.


No. It isn't and it really shows your inability to think about this situation honestly and unemotionally. It's funny how you are disgusted about how "casual" I am being about this discussion, like emotions should dictate our conversations or something. No wonder you can't respond to me without derivative hyperbole. When you decide to give a better thought out response to each of my points to show how "ridiculous" they are, let me know.



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 07:05 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Abortion threads didn't just appear out of the blue...

Just do a search of the forums and you will see pro-life members also posting threads and responding to posts since abortion became legal...


No crap, but it wasn't exactly a hot topic issue up until recently.



posted on Jul, 20 2015 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: westcoast
a reply to: Krazysh0t

For me, it is very, very simple. There are no further points than one.

1. Abortion is murder.


We are talking (disgustedly casually) about the callous and grotesque practice of dismembering and/or dissolving a living being alive and throwing it in the trash. (or if the practitioner is into making a extra buck and good at their late-term abortion techniques so as not to crush the 'samples', then the 'specimen' is sold). Your examples (or reasons to support abortion) are ridiculous.


Just because you refuse to think outside the narrow box of "Abortion = murder" doesn't mean my examples are ridiculous.


Too many 'unwanted' orphans in the states? So THAT is your justification? Well, then...

We don't have good enough mental health programs for the mentally ill. Certainly, no one wants those mumbling crazies on the street corner. Simple! We'll just kill them all.


This is called hyperbole.


We don't have enough properly managed nursing homes for our senior citizens and they are a 'burden' on society. I know! It's so simple....we'll just kill them!

All of those darn, disabled veterans pulling their tax free disability paychecks! They are a HUGE burden on our system. Have you seen them in the overcrowded and unfunded VA hospitals? Nobody WANTS them! I know! We'll just kill them.

Simple! Right?

That's your philosophy?


No.


And before you jump in to answer me; REALLY think about your reply, what was in the OP and what I just said. Unfortunately, it really IS the same thing.


No. It isn't and it really shows your inability to think about this situation honestly and unemotionally. It's funny how you are disgusted about how "casual" I am being about this discussion, like emotions should dictate our conversations or something. No wonder you can't respond to me without derivative hyperbole. When you decide to give a better thought out response to each of my points to show how "ridiculous" they are, let me know.



I find it entirely ironic, that you choose to use the word hypocrisy in the title of this op. I find your non-response to my well thought out and articulate reply to be exactly what you are claiming my post to be: hyper-bole. YOU are full of hypocrisy.

To NOT address abortion with emotion is a large part of what I see as the problem. Taking out the humanity, the relations and the ability to allow ourselves to feel anything for these helpless babies is the only way you (the advocates) can in any way support the act. THAT is hypocrisy, my friend....and your inability to address my valid points with any sort of direct answer is hyper-bole.

Hypocrisy is arguing for the right to protect oneself....while at the same time arguing to take a life.
edit on 20-7-2015 by westcoast because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 12:00 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

No crap, but it wasn't exactly a hot topic issue up until recently.


It was always a hot topic... It's just people like you who don't see why so many people don't like what is happening because you can't, or don't want to understand that we are talking about innocent human lives.

People like you make excuses of "it's to save mankind, to save the Earth" and other idiocies to condone the murder of innocent human beings. But people like you are losing your humanity, soon enough more and more people like you will even agree that "it is ok to murder post-natal babies, after all, they don't have rights just like human fetuses don't have rights because they are not individuals yet"...



edit on 21-7-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 06:55 AM
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originally posted by: westcoast
I find it entirely ironic, that you choose to use the word hypocrisy in the title of this op. I find your non-response to my well thought out and articulate reply to be exactly what you are claiming my post to be: hyper-bole. YOU are full of hypocrisy.


What? You call THAT response well thought out? It looked like an emotional rant to me. You didn't address a single point in my article and just exaggerated your point to the extreme (which is the definition of hyperbole).


To NOT address abortion with emotion is a large part of what I see as the problem. Taking out the humanity, the relations and the ability to allow ourselves to feel anything for these helpless babies is the only way you (the advocates) can in any way support the act. THAT is hypocrisy, my friend....and your inability to address my valid points with any sort of direct answer is hyper-bole.


No, it is called logical analysis and APPARENTLY turns out to be FAR more humane than your emotional response does, because MY solution results in less abortions overall, PLUS it is safer for the mothers.


Hypocrisy is arguing for the right to protect oneself....while at the same time arguing to take a life.


Still haven't addressed the point that countries with legal abortions have lower abortion rates than countries with illegal abortions. If you pretend that point doesn't exist, it doesn't make it go away dear.
edit on 21-7-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



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