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The hypocrisy of the pro-life argument

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posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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So all of a sudden abortion became a hot button topic on these forums with a bunch of threads appearing overnight talking about it. I'm really not sure what spurned this sudden interest, though it is likely due to the upcoming election season and politicians starting to take sides on various debate issues.

So in any case, I've started to become more familiar with the pro-life argument and it confuses me to no end. Pro-lifers demand accountability for sex that results in pregnancy. Fair enough, so how come many pro- lifers also push abstinence only sex education classes? How is a teenager going to know what safe sex even IS without the proper education. How can you demand accountability for sex if the person never even properly knows of the consequences of his actions?

Now, obviously, the next answer I will receive is that the responsibility should be with the parents to teach this. Well that doesn't happen. OR the parent teaches the child abstinence only and the child goes on to not listen to the parent because no teenager likes abstinence.

To me, this appears to be demanding something of someone then never providing the tools to accomplish the task. Then we turn around and demonize the couple (usually just the poor girl who is pregnant actually, it's not like men suffer for supporting abortion or anything) because the girl got pregnant despite not being properly educated on how to NOT get pregnant when having sex. Where is the consistency?

Hypocrisy number 2: Hey, did you know that the abor tion rate in countries where abortion is illegal is HIGHER than in countries where it is legal? Of course this should surprise all of NO ONE with a functioning brain that knows the history of how legal bans work.

So it reasons that if pro-lifers were REALLY about reducing abortion rates, why are they trying to ban abortions? Clearly only the opposite outcome will result of what they desire. Shouldn't they be instead be trying to think up ways that actually WORK instead of forcing their dystopian solutions onto everyone? Where is the consistency?

Finally, to round us out with a 3rd hypocrisy I bring up the little problem of this: There are over 120,000 orphans in the US and over 400,00 children without permanent families. Do you think that this number will magically DROP if we make abortions illegal? These children are a burden to our welfare program and subsidized by our taxes. All to be raised into an environment where they are more likely to age out of the program because US couples are adopting overseas orphans more than local ones. Where is the consistency?

It's funny how pro-lifers like to accuse pro-choicers of being murderers and baby killers, but can't seem to do any internal soul searching of their own to see if they have located the correct solution so that society can not only minimize abortion but also the number of unwanted children who WEREN'T aborted. It's not a zero-sum game of either/or where you can only pick one option or the other. We CAN have both. You just have to understand how reality works and that we cannot create an idealized world where you tell someone that they can't do something and they inherently listen.
edit on 15-7-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



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posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:19 AM
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about 15 years ago, the US state of Georgia tried a 'pilot program' that had high-schoolers start school at 9, and end at 5.

Teen pregnancy went WAY down.
It had to do with latch-key kids coming home to empty houses in the afternoon, and also with the sleep-cycles of adolescents (they aren't built to be at school at 7am....anyone who's raised teens can attest to that.).

In fact, IIRC, the pilot program was designed to evaluate the early-start hours, but as a fortunate side effect, teen pregnancy also went down....

I'll see if I can find a link or resource for it. I learned about it in Grad school.


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posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:31 AM
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Here's an article about the Adolescent sleep cycle and all the pilot programs that have been tried all over the US as well as other countries:
The Impact of School Start Times on Adolescent Health and Academic Performance


And also:
The Benefits of Later High School Start Time


The study revealed that later start times resulted in improved attendance, better test scores in math, English, science and social studies, as well as a decrease in symptoms of depression and substance abuse. It also cited a 70-percent drop in the number of automobile accidents involving teen drivers at one school that pushed back start times.


So - better grades, less depression, anxiety, and substance abuse, and FEWER driving accidents and teen pregnancies.
Still looking for the citation directly about pregnancy rates.....the above links are only a couple of years old.


edit on 7/15/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

See! That is thinking outside the box to accomplish your goals. Reduced teen pregnancy means reduced abortions (at least from teenagers).


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posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your entire argument is off-base. To some of us "pro-lifers" (I like to call myself anti-elective abortion, because that's what I am, with a few exceptions thrown in there), it's ONLY about killing of a helpless human being for the sake of not wanting it.

It's that simple. What you're doing is trying to muck up the argument with speculations and call-outs that only apply to some of the "pro-lifers," yet pretend the stereotype covers all.

You call out hypocrisy, I call out the lack of respect for human life.

I think not taking human life is more important than whining about hypocrisy. Maybe that's just me.

And the reason this is coming up since yesterday is because of the video showing Planned Parenthood apparently being in the business of selling body parts of aborted fetuses.


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posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

You can't just analyze the situation in a vacuum like that. There are consequences for everything we do. ESPECIALLY for the things we legislate. If being pro-life, to you, is TRULY about the killing of a helpless human being, why do you think that banning abortion will cut such things down?


And the reason this is coming up since yesterday is because of the video showing Planned Parenthood apparently being in the business of selling body parts of aborted fetuses.


The abortion threads appeared on the forums before yesterday. The PP one was just one of a few that I can think of and only the latest (until this one that is).
edit on 15-7-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Whoever said Education education education was right.
You teach kids about safe sex and scare the heck out of them to practice it.
Also teach people about it when they do have an abortion, give people more knowledge to make better choices.
Oh and you forgot number 4.

What right to men have to tell women what to do with their bodies? also If you make it illegal how are you going to force them to have the baby? camps?.

Oh and no one is pro abortion before we get called it we are pro choice.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: boymonkey74

Well, I really wanted to touch on certain hypocrisies that have been irking me about the pro-life argument based on statistical analysis and research, not so much the standard back and forth talking points we always see in these discussions.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I think that is the same for us all



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:42 AM
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The problem i have with "pro choicers" is they want unlimited abortions even after the supreme court viable fetus stage. If you are waiting 6 months to have an abortion without a medical condition it seems very immoral and imo border line murder. I am not religious at all and have lots of atheist friends who feel this way as well as had some philosophy professors who were atheist argue this within the rules ethics and philosophy a very strong case for this.

I think before the 20-24 week period it should be a choice between women and drs after that it should be much much more restrictive as the fetus gains conscious behaviour. Just from a moral standpoint.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I did a thread If you remember asking them for the solutions and not one was offered from them.
You are bang on with your points If we had zero kids in the world without parents I would listen to the pro life people more.





posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: luthier

You will get no argument from me on this. I can certainly see why after a woman has been pregnant long enough they should just go ahead and have the baby (except for extenuating circumstances).


+1 more 
posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your entire argument is off-base. To some of us "pro-lifers" (I like to call myself anti-elective abortion, because that's what I am, with a few exceptions thrown in there), it's ONLY about killing of a helpless human being for the sake of not wanting it.

It's that simple. What you're doing is trying to muck up the argument with speculations and call-outs that only apply to some of the "pro-lifers," yet pretend the stereotype covers all.

You call out hypocrisy, I call out the lack of respect for human life.

I think not taking human life is more important than whining about hypocrisy. Maybe that's just me.

And the reason this is coming up since yesterday is because of the video showing Planned Parenthood apparently being in the business of selling body parts of aborted fetuses.



Whatever you call yourself - it's not your decision. It is the woman's and the woman's only with the adivse of trusted and I repeat trusted professionals and loved ones. A woman has soverigency (I can't even spell the word close enough for spell check to help - get over it) over her body - an embrio is not an independent being of any sort .

I'm sorry you feel so strongly about forcing your views on others and suggest that you don't get an abortion if you find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy. In the mean time I congratulate your adoption of all the un-aborted crack babies - that is truly a christian thing to do.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your entire argument is off-base. To some of us "pro-lifers" (I like to call myself anti-elective abortion, because that's what I am, with a few exceptions thrown in there), it's ONLY about killing of a helpless human being for the sake of not wanting it.



Whatever you call yourself - it's not your decision. It is the woman's and the woman's only with the adivse of trusted and I repeat trusted professionals and loved ones. A woman has soverigency (I can't even spell the word close enough for spell check to help - get over it) over her body - an embrio is not an independent being of any sort .

I'm sorry you feel so strongly about forcing your views on others and suggest that you don't get an abortion if you find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy. In the mean time I congratulate your adoption of all the un-aborted crack babies - that is truly a christian thing to do.


The arugment is not off-base in the least - it is fact based and rational.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:48 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I think they should leave the laws as they are. Everyone has an opinion, so why should anyone's hold more weight than others. I could care less if a woman wants to get an abortion or not. That's their choice and something they have to live with. I also feel that those protestors that sit outside abortion clinics should be arrested on hate crimes based on some of the things I've seen.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I did a thread If you remember asking them for the solutions and not one was offered from them.
You are bang on with your points If we had zero kids in the world without parents I would listen to the pro life people more.




That is a shame. People never want solutions. Its easier to just argue and argue and argue. I like the ideas posted here. Abortion is an unfortunate reality and you cant really legislate morality. My point was some pro choicers want unrestricted abortions beyond the roe v wade ruling and it seems just kind of rediculous to me killing a fetus that can respond and have feelings would even be considered without specific circumstances.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: boymonkey74

Well, I really wanted to touch on certain hypocrisies that have been irking me about the pro-life argument based on statistical analysis and research, not so much the standard back and forth talking points we always see in these discussions.


You wanted to touch on certain hypocrisis you imagine based on your opinion of what others may think.

Your argument is specious but logical in your brain.

Sad really, you decide what every christian thinks and how they act.
Strangely its not only christians who are pro life as opposed to pro death of children.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:52 AM
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a reply to: amicktd

Anti-Abortion Terrorism


For the past four years, we have been doing our own study of targeted harassment of abortion providers. We have conducted almost 90 in-depth interviews with abortion providers around the country about their experiences with targeted harassment. We asked them to describe their experiences, talk about how those experiences affected their day-to-day lives, and how law and law enforcement have assisted them, if at all. These interviews form the basis of a book, Living in the Crosshairs: The Untold Stories of Anti-Abortion Terrorism, which will be released in May.

The interviews we conducted and the experiences we write about in the book complement the findings of the Feminist Majority Foundation report. Abortion providers live with a staggering amount and variety of targeted harassment. This kind of individualized targeting is not a relic of past decades, when Operation Rescue made nightly news with clinic blockades and bombings. Rather, it continues with new harassment to this day. Providers told us about being physically assaulted, picketed at home, threatened over the phone, and stalked around town. Providers’ children have been the subject of protests at school, providers’ parents have been harassed in nursing homes, and their spouses have been targeted at work. The list of tactics is almost endless.

This kind of targeting can happen to anyone who is associated with an abortion clinic, not just high-profile doctors like Tiller. Administrators, nurses, security guards, volunteers, building owners—anyone associated with a clinic is at risk of being targeted.


These are the people supposed to be loving of life.
edit on 15-7-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: borntowatch

Yea, I only backed up literally every single one of my points with evidence and research, but you're right my points are COMPLETELY unfounded. /sarc

Thanks for the deflective post by the way and not actually addressing any of my points or explaining why you don't represent any of those hypocrisies.

Though, at the core, you can't argue around the fact that countries with legal abortion have lower abortion rates. So if you continue down the path of trying to ban abortion, you are hypocritical. Can't argue around that.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Whoever said Education education education was right.
You teach kids about safe sex and scare the heck out of them to practice it.
Also teach people about it when they do have an abortion, give people more knowledge to make better choices.
Oh and you forgot number 4.

What right to men have to tell women what to do with their bodies? also If you make it illegal how are you going to force them to have the baby? camps?.

Oh and no one is pro abortion before we get called it we are pro choice.

I agree but i also feel then child support should not be. If a woman can decide to have a baby or not without a man's say then they cant be demanding money either if they choose and the man did not want the child.

I do have a problem with late term abortions that some prochoicers want. Including the democratic party chair.




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