Using androgens to prevent sexual orientational development disorders.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It is best for parents and fetus to have controle levels of androgens. This will likely prevent others congenital conditions.

Like taking folic acid prevents spinal bifida dex can prevent ambiguous genitalia, pedophila, ect.

People like catlin jenner would not have suffered for years before seeking medical action.

originally posted by: In4ormant
Gonna get bashed for his but oh well. Species' use 2 sexes to reproduce and continue the species. Homosexual people are not a natural production of the human species. Does that mean we should go in and alter the cause if there is one? No. Does it make homosexual people any less entitled to rights as humans? No. There is a reason that nature has decided to take this course with us as a species and we need to accept that. This isn't a new development. There have been homosexual members of society since the inception.

Please re-read the part bolded.

Are you suggesting that somehow, gay people are artificially created? To artificially create a gay person you would have to have an intervention of some sort.

Nature creates gay men and women naturally. There is no intentional human intervention that causes people to be gay. Your assertion that gay people aren't "natural" is erroneous.

Being gay is as natural as being born infertile. It just happens to some people and not others. Neither situation propagates the species, but neither condition is un-natural (left to nature).

a reply to: Bone75

First i called no one "Homophobe" so your accusations are false, second if you support the parents rights to cure "sexual attraction disorders" you would have to include Heterosexuality as well, that is a Sexual Attraction, and if you include Homosexuality as a Disorder, you would have to include Heterosexuality as a disorder also

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

Homosexuality is "normal" like left-handedness is "normal".

You're comparing apples to moon rocks here. People aren't killing themselves for being born left-handed.

As a parent I would consider myself irresponsible if there were a way to prevent my child from being born gay, or transgender, or a pedophile and I didn't use it.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

cancer is also natural.
Pedophila is also spawned in the same way homosexiality, CAH and others are. Through erroneous androgens levels.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Poor wording on my part, I apologize. I should have said that homosexual members of a species are not the normal product of that species in its effort to propagate.

*Maybe it is a way for the DNA of a species to error correct*

Please don't misconstrue my thoughts as any ill will towards anyone, Im strictly speaking from a curiosity on the biology of it all

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Again poor wording on my part. Its not a natural function of any species which is designed to propagate itself. My comments were not meant to be derogatory to anyone. Im curious as to the cause of our species to have a homosexual population, that's all.

a reply to: DAVID64

The problem with that is that it is impossible to tell what exactly will be the outcome of under or over exposure of such androgens. Sicence now can only tell that the levels are erroneous and bring them to control metrics.

In trying to create a homosexual you might produced something totally different.

twins for example are very close while in gestation but the close quarters is still enough to get environmental differences.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Bone75

First i called no one "Homophobe" so your accusations are false, second if you support the parents rights to cure "sexual attraction disorders" you would have to include Heterosexuality as well, that is a Sexual Attraction, and if you include Homosexuality as a Disorder, you would have to include Heterosexuality as a disorder also

How does that even begin to make sense to you? In order to have a disorder in the first place you have to have a norm to compare it to. Like it or not, heterosexuality is the norm. Its pretty much a requirement to propagate the species you know.

You wouldn't consider breathing a disorder would you?

originally posted by: Bone75
People aren't killing themselves for being born left-handed.

People don't kill themselves for being homosexual, either. They kill themselves because of the complete and utter CRAP they receive for being so, from people who insist homosexuality is somehow "wrong" or "bad" or a "disorder".

As a parent I would consider myself irresponsible if there were a way to prevent my child from being born gay, or transgender, or a pedophile and I didn't use it.

As a parent, that would be your right. (I see how you and the OP group homosexuality and trans with pedophilia...Kind of gives yourselves away...)

originally posted by: In4ormant
Gonna get bashed for his but oh well. Species' use 2 sexes to reproduce and continue the species. Homosexual people are not a natural production of the human species. Does that mean we should go in and alter the cause if there is one? No. Does it make homosexual people any less entitled to rights as humans? No. There is a reason that nature has decided to take this course with us as a species and we need to accept that. This isn't a new development. There have been homosexual members of society since the inception.

And what if mental disorders are the same? What if natural selection somehow indirectly favors their presence? Or what if recent changes in how we live in the past 10,000 years--the agricultural revolution--has brought on the disorders where none were apparent before? Or maybe it was the past 200? Either way, it's possible today's disorders are somehow directly or indirectly favored or otherwise not hostile as we imagine.

I know it's a vast stretch to suggest schizophrenia is a good thing and is somehow favored by natural seletion. Many mental disorders are crippling to the sufferer. Yet nature can work in strange counterintuitive ways too. For example, we die. That's just part of nature. ARe mental disorders just part of nature too? Maybe death isn't intentional? What if we can remedy death someday? We'll defy nature on every level. No longer do we play on a soccer field. We don't even need a field anymore. It's like that scene in Back to the Future II where Emmet Brown says "Where we're going we don't need roads." F*** evolution, we're on our own now.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So then what is the harm in correcting sich a thing?

Biologically they are in fact all spawned from the same gestation errors.

originally posted by: alphastrike101
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

cancer is also natural.

But it's not harmless...

Pedophila is also spawned in the same way homosexiality, CAH and others are.

Then shouldn't your concern be more focused on curing pedophilia, which CLEARLY has victims, than focusing on gay people, who are perfectly happy to live their lives without making someone a victim? You're more focused on gay people than ANY other of these genetic issues... Why is that?

Speaking as a transgender woman I'm fully aware that what I have is a birth defect. I'm certainly not threatened by being told what I'm experiencing isn't NORMAL, I mean DUH, of course it's not normal.

The main thing I care about is that when it comes to WHO a person is, the mind trumps the body. So, as my mind is a girls mind, I am a girl regardless of what my body is.

Am I threatened by the idea of this being preventable? No why should I be? I certainly didn't ask for this nightmare, and I'm not going to pretend I'm somehow lesser if it does turn out to be preventable. If others can be saved from going through this, then I have no problem with it IF it can be done safely.

For me I am who I am, and my fight is for others to recognize that if there is a defect MIND trumps BODY every time on who a person is.

If a person is male and likes other males due to their brain chemistry then that's who they are and it's FINE, not necessarily normal, as statistically that's a silly statement. If my mind is a woman's mind, that's who I am, there's literally no way for me to control or change that at this point. Therefore it's wrong to belittle me, or discriminate against me for something beyond my control.

Would you discriminate against someone lacking an arm, or with an extra finger or toe, or multitude of physical problems that come about from birth defects? Someone blind? Someone deaf? No of course not. None of these things are normal though. If someone who's blind has a seeing eye dog do you make fun of them for it? No. If someone has a wheelchair cause they can't walk do you discriminate against them? No you do not. So if someone with the mind of a woman gets a sex change or dresses the part as best they can, just like everything else mentioned they should be treated with respect regardless of our handicap. Same with someone gay finding someone else with the same issue.

Being gay, transsexual, ect is not normal. I am not threatened by this fact. I am however, fully a person, who like everyone else with something outside my control deserves to be treated fully as a person, with these traits respected and accepted for being part of who I am, and not shunned, discriminated against or treated differently for them. Nor told to repress them or hide them away as if I were some kind of monster.

To quote the elephant man, "I am not a monster, I am a human being!"

So I have no problem with scientific research into why we are the way we are, nor things that might prevent them. Being transgender for example has been hell. I'd gladly have been born wholly one sex, and not put through this torture.

I just insist that when such preventions fail, or for those who's family choose to not take the risk of such preventions, that those born with something outside their control be allowed to be who they are (assuming it harms no one, unlike pedophilia) without being treated any differently as the fellow human being they are.

originally posted by: alphastrike101
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So then what is the harm in correcting sich a thing?

I didn't say there was harm in it. Truth is, I just don't think it's any of your business, unless it's YOUR kids we're discussing.

And, if we can "correct" homosexuality, doesn't it follow that it should be OK to "correct" heterosexuality? If a parent would rather have gay kids, would it be OK to mess with the genes to insure their kids would be gay?

a reply to: Bone75

Why is Homosexuality a "Disorder" though? isn't it just another way to be born? and what if someone wanted to have a Homosexual Child, if you are treating people to "Cure" Homosexuality, than you should also Treat Heterosexuality as well...

All i'm saying, is people are so quick to label Homosexuality as a "Disorder" and something that should be cured. what i'm saying is , what if people are just born that way, no "Disorder" or "Abnormality" it's just as Heterosexuality

a reply to: jonnywhite

Its hard to discuss things like this from a purely biological perspective without using words like condition etc. that convey a negative connotation. Im trying to do that but failing badly. Some of your questions are ones that I have as well. I want to understand why our species has VARIATIONS( better word! only took me 4 posts to come up with it) and the reason behind those variations.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Not at all.

I think they should all be corrected.
The thing is though, currently science can only say when androgens are at erroneous levels.

The only way to prevent say pedophila would be to bring all at risk levels to control metrics.

Like when a dr. does not know exactly what infections one has they will issue antibiotics that will prevent most all infections.

In effect you may prevent all pedophiles but you will subsequently have to prevent all others sexual orientational development disorders.

a reply to: Darth_Prime

I don't want to cure anything--everyone is as they were born and should be able to be happy regardless. I just want to understand the reason, just like why does our dna DECIDE to produce a child with green eyes and black hair when other options are available at the time those genes are picked to be dominate? Is it random or is there a purpose why when given choices our dna favors one setting over another.

originally posted by: Puppylove(....)
Being gay, transsexual, ect is not normal. I am not threatened by this fact. I am however, fully a person, who like everyone else with something outside my control deserves to be treated fully as a person, with these traits respected and accepted for being part of who I am, and not shunned, discriminated against or treated differently for them. Nor told to repress them or hide them away as if I were some kind of monster.

To quote the elephant man, "I am not a monster, I am a human being!"
(...)

That's exactly what people go through who have mental disorders. There're vast numbers of mental disorders. The popular ones get lots of news, but there're tons under the radar. Many people posting here have them and don't know it. They may or may not themselves want to remove their disorder, depending on how severe it's. Oftentimes other people will discriminate against you or harass you because of your disorder. They might make jokes about you because you have ADD. Or because you're a perfectionist they'll shun you, not even giving you a chance to show you can overcomb. Doctors will ignore your opinion about it, given the mind is merely a machine to them which they tweak. Day after day, society casts you as somebody who needs to be fixed, somebody who cannot be independent. And since most people do not fix their disorder with drugs and therapy, they have to live with it the remainder of their lives.

Look at the list of mental disorders sometime. There're so many on there I have to wonder if anybody doesn't have one.

My question is: Are all these disorders really as bad as they're claimed to be? I think they can be, but sometimes they're not. In fact, sometimes I wonder if they're much more complicated than simply a broken part of the mind. For example, maybe some of them indirectly or directly tie to things in our evolutionary past. Maybe those things changed in the past 50,000 years and so the disorder emerged. And also I think some disorders can favor some things over other things, making people with these disorders possibly more tolerant of certain environments or situations. It's not just a across-the-board negative in some cases, as it's oftne casted as.