Men may feel more threatened by female bosses, research finds

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: JadeStar
Ok. But like i said, it was hard not to because we were all friends and some of us even hung out together socially last year.

Were you expecting it to be easy?

I did ask them and they just kind of didn't have much to say they just sort of justified their actions/question by saying things were different under (old boss) so I asked them how but they really didn't have answers. That's why i asked the ones who were not presenting any issues.

So...are you not capable of being manager?

Their responses would have been enough to make a satisfactory decision. Employees that can not be honest with me, and me with them, have no spot in my business. I don't need to consult with my friends for that.

Yes but that's the 'nuclear option" one which then presents more problems than it might at first glance, solve.

What 'nuclear' option? You are allowing this by your uncertainty as the manager.

And from the reports from the old manager these guys are competent and good at what they do and overall i know them to be good people. things only changed this year.

Change is the only constant in life. The situation has changed, and their performance has changed. Act based on the now, not on the has been.

I don't. What i mean is, rather than feed such things as inequality and unfairness i'd rather feed their alternative by being aware of them so that I don't fall into the same patterns which leads to them.

You are not responsible for how people act. They are. If they choose to act in a manner that is unfitting of your office and team, remove them before it becomes cancerous to the whole.

Like I said, that's the nuclear option. The hardest thing to do is terminate someone and seeing as how i've only been able to do that for a short period of time and seeing as how these guys were fine with the other boss i'd rather look in the mirror at what i can do differently to help them be more comfortable with me than just drop them.

So you are going to spend more time psycho analyzing yourself than you will on the performance of you and the team under you?

Being the manager is not easy, and is never going to be. Don't make it harder than it has to be.

Finding good people is harder than maintaining a great team.

And preventing bad people from having an affect on a great teams is even harder.

Well if they were bad people it would be a relatively easy decision to remove them.


As it is now, they are good people who are very good at what they do. They have close friendships with several other co-workers. Team dynamics would indicate that removing them would have an instant and tangible negative impact. Therefore yes, I'd prefer to look at what I can do differently to improve team dynamics with the people we have now than to blow it up and have to replace these two guys with two people who may or may not be competent, may or may not be compatible with their co-workers and may or may not present me with the same problems the two whose positions they were filling did.

With that much at stake it would be illogical for me to just say "you're fired."

I better be damn well sure that's the only good option before i do that. Maybe I am not as effective as I should be, that's on me, not them. If these guys were asses i'd easily do it but they get along well with everyone else and they were fine with me last year and with their old boss last year.

The only thing that changed was my position relative to them. I want to preserve what is a great team but if I have to then I will do what you say I should but not until that is the last option and right now I doubt that it is.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

Perhaps try shifting the focus from you. A team incentive where all members have to work together as a team for a goal that is assessed individually, by their peers, and as a team with some sort of reward as an incentive can work wonders at getting an out of sync team member back on board and is reflective practice, perhaps tied into CPD and scheduled appraisals.

Great idea! We already have team bonuses but they come down from on high and there has not been one with me in this role yet. I can ask my boss if we can implement a new one.

Thanks SO MUCH for your answer!

One of he worse mistakes a new manager makes, especially if he was promoted within, is trying to be buddies with the staff. You can't be their buddy and their boss at the same time--it rarely works out. Set boundaries that define you as the boss immediately.

I've done that already and most understand that. It really is just 2 guys out of 10 people who work in sub teams of 5 each. Unfortunately the two were on the same sub team degrading the quality of it. So i split them up. I think this may have caused more issues though. I'd put them back on the same team but then I'd appear to be waffling.

This can be done without being obnoxious.

I know. I think I did this and my boss complimented me on it about two weeks ago but he is not yet aware of the two who have been a problem.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

Perhaps try shifting the focus from you. A team incentive where all members have to work together as a team for a goal that is assessed individually, by their peers, and as a team with some sort of reward as an incentive can work wonders at getting an out of sync team member back on board and is reflective practice, perhaps tied into CPD and scheduled appraisals.

Great idea! We already have team bonuses but they come down from on high and there has not been one with me in this role yet. I can ask my boss if we can implement a new one.

Thanks SO MUCH for your answer!

One of he worse mistakes a new manager makes, especially if he was promoted within, is trying to be buddies with the staff. You can't be their buddy and their boss at the same time--it rarely works out. Set boundaries that define you as the boss immediately.

I've done that already and most understand that. It really is just 2 guys out of 10 people who work in sub teams of 5 each. Unfortunately the two were on the same sub team degrading the quality of it. So i split them up. I think this may have caused more issues though. I'd put them back on the same team but then I'd appear to be waffling.

This can be done without being obnoxious.

I know. I think I did this and my boss complimented me on it about two weeks ago but he is not yet aware of the two who have been a problem.

Well done.


Another trap is to take work/duties on yourself to appear "cool" and to hook someone up.

a reply to: JadeStar

I have a female boss--she's awesome, and she treats me like an adult. I don't want her job, as it's really the only way to advance in pay or position in my job and there is too much drama in the seven people with whom I work. I wouldn't handle it nearly as well as she does.

Studies are funny, because it depends on who they ask, and if they ask people who have never had a female boss, their opinions really aren't necessary or very scientifically derived.

As a matter of fact, every job I've had except for one has had a female boss--well, not including the Army, which went through many changes in personnel while I was in--and they've all been great for the most part. In fact, I seem to work better with them than I do with other dudes.

Go figure.

ETA: Of course, my boss has a graphic up in her office that reads something like, "Women who strive for equality with men lack ambition," so there's that...(It's meant to be funny)

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

a reply to: JadeStar

Did they likewise test the women?

Could the men be the only ones reacting negatively?

Men might be reacting negatively and women might also be feeling threatened to. If both parties are reacting negatively, then the men are justified in their reactions because the woman will be acting aggressively out of her own position of perceived threat from him. And determining who started the cycle is going to be a classic game of he said/she said.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

Perhaps try shifting the focus from you. A team incentive where all members have to work together as a team for a goal that is assessed individually, by their peers, and as a team with some sort of reward as an incentive can work wonders at getting an out of sync team member back on board and is reflective practice, perhaps tied into CPD and scheduled appraisals.

Great idea! We already have team bonuses but they come down from on high and there has not been one with me in this role yet. I can ask my boss if we can implement a new one.

Thanks SO MUCH for your answer!

One of he worse mistakes a new manager makes, especially if he was promoted within, is trying to be buddies with the staff. You can't be their buddy and their boss at the same time--it rarely works out. Set boundaries that define you as the boss immediately.

I've done that already and most understand that. It really is just 2 guys out of 10 people who work in sub teams of 5 each. Unfortunately the two were on the same sub team degrading the quality of it. So i split them up. I think this may have caused more issues though. I'd put them back on the same team but then I'd appear to be waffling.

This can be done without being obnoxious.

I know. I think I did this and my boss complimented me on it about two weeks ago but he is not yet aware of the two who have been a problem.

Well done.


Another trap is to take work/duties on yourself to appear "cool" and to hook someone up.

Thanks for that advise. I figured as much. If I did that with one person I'd have to do it with all and that would be pointless. They know better than ask me to and they know that my job itself is hard work so they don't see me as having some cushy job now that i'm their manager.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

That's a great strategy. I mostly do the same, though here in the JP there's also an obligation to get to know your co-workers OUTSIDE of work. The whole drinking together after work thing really gets to me sometimes. Drunk middleaged Japanese men calling me "The pretty Gaijin I'd F*** But Not Marry" when they're hammered is really annoying. A few of them take to calling me "Gai-chan" outside of work.

That's the one thing I hate about working in Japan. Work and Home life are sometimes intermingled so much they become one.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun



I feel sorry for you, it's a cultural thing I take it.

Work Christmas parties? Company pick-nicks?

My feelings: "I don't like any of you at the office, so I'm not going waste my valuable free time with your outside the office"

Wow, that sounded grumpy.

Meh, after having about a 50/50 ratio in the many places I have worked, my conclusion that most managers suck in general and have no business managing in the first place.

I'll take the person that worked their way up the totem pole over someone that just coasts as fast a they can in to leadership role. It usually means the person wants power and is going to have no clue about the inner workings of what they are actually managing.

The one thing that might be unsettling is sometimes women try to push the "im one of the guys thing" a bit too far but still get offended when an actual guy reciprocates. What I mean is, I remember one manager told on of my team mates to man up and grow some balls concerning telling another person off, but she would get offended if an actual guy talked to her like that.

Might have been just her though....like I said, I think most managers suck in general. Regardless of gender.

originally posted by: JadeStar

Thank you so much for that. What you say is similar to something my sister told me. She said "smile just enough to get them on side, but not too much that they take it the wrong way. be friendly but professional and don't be afraid to speak up and call them out when they do something wrong, assert yourself when necessary but always be friendly and approachable."

Just to spice things up a little, I'll throw in a quote from my sister as well. She runs her own company and does well for herself. We were talking two or three years ago about employing people. She came out with the following gem on why she prefers to hire men if possible: "Because they're not likely to get preggers and f**k up my deadlines." Her exact words on the subject. She sees (most) younger females as a possible liability to the business, while men are a better (thereby better-paid) investment.

Don't shoot the messenger, just introducing a point of view that I'd be crucified for suggesting if I made it myself.

*dons asbestos underwear and waits for inevitable firestorm*

Really depends on the boss if I can work smoothly with her or not.

In my life I have 4 example of female bosses that I have seen how their leadership works:

One was lower boss with a bad temper and I only had her as trainer before she became boss and she was a real bitch and could not motivate her team at all easily. Not a nurturer. A few years later I got the same level for another team and could handle my team with much less conflict. To tell you the truth I was softer than her in the way I handled my team and got better result.

Another female boss in the same company on a higher level. She was good at motivating. Really did not think about her gender at all.

Another company higher level female boss. Very precise in what she wants but could make it as a friendly request. You really pushed the boundary of how efficient you could be for her.

Forgot about a female project leaders I have worked under. She rocked.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I feel sorry for you, it's a cultural thing I take it.

Work Christmas parties? Company pick-nicks?

My feelings: "I don't like any of you at the office, so I'm not going waste my valuable free time with your outside the office"

Wow, that sounded grumpy.

Meh, I say it really bugs me, but really I'm "one of the guys" to them, and we all give each other disparaging nicknames. "Ahou-kun" is one of my favorites.

They're a good bunch of guys, and seeing them drink themselves stupid is hilarious.

a reply to: JadeStar
I am a man and-
I would much prefer a female boss from my experience of working.
The female bosses I have had have been much more likley to give me time off for dentist/doctor appointments-and they have done so without trying to guilt trip me about it.
Some male bosses I have had said stuff like "work through the pain"or called me a wuss for having a bad back/dodgy tooth..

Maybe I have been lucky with my female bosses,but I prefer them myself from experience.
Generally,female bosses have been more sympathetic to me-not that I am a shirker of my duties at work,but on the rare occasions I have needed time off,its been easier to deal with if my boss was a female at the time.

And I don't feel less of a man for working for a woman.
That is the sort of BS insecure guys have going on.
Not happening here.

BTW Got any jobs going Jadestar?
I'm handy with an axe/saw,pretty good at building with wood,and almost OK with low level computer stuff!
And I don't moan or whinge very often.

a reply to: JadeStar

None of that reads "threat" to me. Negotiating a higher wage when negotiating with a female and trying to do an unequal split when splitting with a female do not seem to indicate threat at all. Rather they appear to indicate that males perceive females as being easier to get more money out of and view females as poorer negotiators.

It looks like the conclusions written about are forced at best.

I can’t comment on the general case, but only on my specific experience. Everyone will have their own slant based on their’s.

I’ve had as many female bosses as male bosses, and in my experience the female bosses have been the best by far. Maybe it’s a lot to do with the industry I’m in, but I’m not aware of any situations within my department/organization where gender has ever been an isuue. Nor has race ever been an issue. I work in IS/IT for a large engineering research/development/testing labs company specializing in scientific services and systems. We do a lot of contracting for NASA, Aero/DoD and the nuclear energy industry. I’m a software engineer/analyst.

I’m male, by the way, and my current boss is a woman. She is without a doubt the best, and brightest, person I’ve ever worked with. She’s of Chinese descent; come to think of it, most of the people I work with are Chinese. I’m a white, American male, but in my department that makes me the minority. I never really give that much thought, though. Considering my boss has a Masters Degree in Computer Science from Princeton, and her husband is a physicist at Cal Tech, many people might assume she’s stuck-up or arrogant, but that’s the furthest thing from the truth. She’s in fact very down to Earth, easy to get along with and always respectful of others. Although it can be like a pressure cooker environment at times, she has a way of keeping things calm and cool. Since I’ve never worked well under the iron fist of authority and supervision, I’m allowed to pretty much do my thing, set my own priorities and work at my own pace. Even so, I get the job done and rarely miss a deadline. My boss is like a good friend, rather than a fire-breathing tyrant, and so we have a great working relationship. We keep the goals well in sight, and clearly targeted. I don’t feel like I work for my boss; I work with my boss. And since I’m doing what I love to do anyway, I don’t have to grudgingly drag my butt outta bed every morning and psych myself into doing something I hate. I’m very lucky.

The male bosses I’ve had were much more uptight, regimented, stressed out and quick on the trigger. It took all the satisfaction out of working and made for ill-feelings. Call it a macho-man complex if you like; I call it insecurity. It often gave me the impression that in order to cover up for feelings of incompetence, or maybe due to a lack of confidence, or whatever they overdid it by making sure (over and over again) everyone understood the pecking order, making unreasonable demands, and needlessly exerting authority. Maybe some employees need that sort of thing to stay focussed on the ball, but for me it doesn’t work that way. I understand there are times a boss just has to be the bad guy/girl, and that’s OK when justified. But doing it simply to create an atmosphere of intimidation is not a good management practice. At least not in a high-skilled/semi-professional/professional setting.

Like I said at the outset, though, I think the industry you work in might make a difference in terms of your preferences.

I’m sure some folks will think I’m full of it, and don’t know what I’m talking about. And that may be true. I’m just giving impressions based on my personal experience, which I’m sure doesn’t fit the norm. I’ve been awfully lucky, as well, and probably didn’t deserve most of it. Somebody needs to shoot me!

Although very slowly, I think men and women are becoming more equal in the workplace, as well as in society in general. One of my favorite things is that women are becoming more openly sexual; moreso than men, I think. You go girl!

I’m outta here. I’ve already divulged far too much personal info. If you want my social security number, you’ll just have to email me!

Peace...

Just throwing this out there, but maybe it's because men find women difficult to talk to and reason with. Sometimes some sort of emotional response might work.

a reply to: netbound

Right. Her gender makes her a good boss? Is that what you're saying?

If they are professional, or at least cool, I'm good with it as I would be anyone.

However, many times they are not. Many have a chip on their shoulder, or turn cold and tend to have 'cliques' set up, and if you're in, you've an easy life, if not, be prepared to be the 'beast of burden'.

Also, there are some (not tons, but still) who let their 'monthly' get in the way of staying cool, rational and able to function within the organization.

I can think of many instances, direct, indirect or even through a collaboration between companies, where some became super petty, irritable, or cold for no apparent reason. It was all on a professional level, so there was no 'flirting' or the like.

One that stands out to me is when I worked for a company several years ago. I was the Senior member of the department, only answering to one other, and then the owner of the company.

She seemed cool, collected, had good work ethic, pleasant manner. However, around the same time every month, she became almost unbearable to work with. It wasn't just myself, I had others coming to me to ask what was 'going on' - inside the department and from other departments.

She and my Director were at odds for quite sometime. Then almost magically, overnight, she was promoted one day. Honestly, I was ok with it - what I was offended by, and was completely caught off guard on was that upon getting such promotion, she said, and I quote:

"We can no longer be friends because I'm now your manager."

I was shell shocked at that comment. I asked why, and her reply, and I quote:

"I'm your manager now, and I clawed my way here and nothing and nobody, not even you are going to stand in my way."

Still reeling from the first comment, and now dealing with the second blow from the newly appointed 'ice queen', she said, and I quote:

"Aren't you going to congratulate me?"

To which my reply was a stumbled "Um, yea, congratulations on the promotion, thought I fail to see what us being friends and you being the new supervisor has anything to do with each other."

She told me that "You need to watch it, I'm not in this to make friends and if you're not going to congratulate me, I can and will write you up."

As an individual, she was nice, just difficult to work with once a month. Then she gets into a position of marginal power, and she's instant '@$$hole' - the problem is, that as a man, in this overly litigious society, you can't say much to a woman while she's berating you, as you could with a fellow man. They lord that over you and can make up # for 'harassment' on the flip of a dime, and there's just her word against yours.

If there was true 'equality' then they'd be on even footing with no special protections more than a Man does.

I can disagree with a fellow man and even come to words, and nobody is going to run to HR with their 'feeling's all hurt and file false allegations that are hard to prove/disprove. It is all a game of hearsay, and the law wrongfully favors one side, and it's not the men.

You get a woman who's professional, cool and doesn't let 'factors' of personal issues get in the way, I'm right as rain.

Otherwise, I am *very* guarded in all I do and say - who needs bull# charges from someone who's got their 'feelings' hurt or underwear in a wad over some small thing, when they themselves act like a mixture of Napoleon, Ghengis Kahn and Hannibal Lecter, then get upset with someone and run to HR for a frustrated comment with how they handle business.....