Men may feel more threatened by female bosses, research finds

Sexism is a funny thing. Hard to pinpoint as well. Do you dislike someone because of their sex or because you just don't see eye to eye? How does the other person involved perceive it? I have found in my experiences that most issues can be traced back to a lack of education and/or a self esteem problem.

a reply to: masqua

a reply to: JadeStar

Insecurity in many men could lead to this.

I've seen it myself.

a reply to: JadeStar

I've had a female boss before and I have no problem taking orders from a woman.

originally posted by: JadeStar
The more i read the more i realize that masculinity seems to be a fairly fragile thing.

No judgment intended, but I find it interesting that you said the above, given your life history.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: masqua

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

This is very true -- I've watched a department's employees be treated like the female boss's children.

When you treat your employees like children, you get children. Her employees act like robotic children, and it's a direct reflection of her management style. The woman is very OCD and controlling, and micromanages every detail while treating them all like her own kids.

So what I saw were grown women incapable of doing anything for themselves (using a fax machine by themselves for example) and behaving like immature robots. They act in ways in which they are conditioned to.

In some ways the nurturing instinct can be a very good thing -- it can help bring you up through the ranks by being molded, taught, and mentored. My best boss I mentioned earlier was an excellent mentor and I believe it was in part of her instinct to nurture me.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Good points. It was General Patton, IIR, who said something along the lines of those leaders who expect little of their troops will not be disappointed for that is exactly what they will get.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: JadeStar
The more i read the more i realize that masculinity seems to be a fairly fragile thing.

At least this study (and others) would seem to indicate that.


From Science Daily and the Journal of the Society for Personal and Social Psychology

Here's an excerpt...

Men are more threatened by female supervisors and become more assertive in advocating for themselves in negotiation exercises, new social psychology research has found. Self-assertive behavior by men toward female bosses can disrupt the workplace dynamics, stifle team cohesiveness and negatively affect team performance, researchers say.

Men may feel threatened by female supervisors and act more assertively toward them than male bosses, which could disrupt the workplace with struggles over power dynamics, according to new research published by the Society for Personality and Social Psychology.

"The concept of masculinity is becoming more elusive in society as gender roles blur, with more women taking management positions and becoming the major breadwinners for their families," said lead researcher Ekaterina Netchaeva, an assistant professor of management and technology at Bocconi University in Milan, Italy. "Even men who support gender equality may see these advances as a threat to their masculinity, whether they consciously acknowledge it or not."

While women are underrepresented in senior management positions in the United States, they are almost on par with men at middle and lower management levels, according to Labor Department statistics. In three experiments, Netchaeva and her co-authors discovered that men feel more threatened when they answer to female bosses.

In an experiment with 76 college students (52 male, 24 female) at a U.S. university, participants were told they would negotiate their salary at a new job in a computer exercise with a male or female hiring manager. After the negotiation, participants took an implicit threat test where they guessed words that appeared on a computer screen for a fraction of a second. Participants who chose more threat-related words, including "fear" or "risk," were judged to feel more threatened.

Male participants who negotiated with a female manager exhibited more threat and pushed for a higher salary ($49,400 average), compared to men negotiating with a male manager ($42,870 average). The manager's gender didn't affect female participants, who negotiated for a lower salary ($41,346 average), reflecting a common trend where women tend to be less aggressive than men in negotiations, Netchaeva said.

In another experiment, 68 male college students had to decide how to split a $10,000 bonus with a male or female team member or supervisor. Male participants evenly split the money with male or female team members, but men felt more threatened by a female supervisor and tried to keep more money for themselves than with a male supervisor.

In a similar experiment conducted online with 370 adult participants (226 male, 144 female) from the United States, men were more receptive to female supervisors who were described as proactive and direct rather than self-promotive and power-seeking. Specifically, male participants tried to keep a larger share of the $10,000 bonus if the female manager was described as ambitious or power-seeking. Female participants offered roughly the same bonus amount to proactive or ambitious female managers.

More at this link

What do you guys think about this?

As long as my female boss is good looking, I don't mind working extensively underneath her, if you get my drift.

As my mom would say: "Oh no you didn't?!"

That was a valid office workplace joke pre-1985. Nowadays that joke would warrant a trip to HR for sexual harassment, if not worse.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Men being paid more in the workplace for the same jobs suggests otherwise.

Women are expected to have a career and anyone with intelligence knows that it isn't a great plan in expecting a man to pay for everything all your life or even to be in the same relationship after years, therefore it is imperative that women are able to support themselves for their own safety and security.

Many women in the workplace are supporting their families themselves whilst also having children which means finding jobs with the right hours, that are flexible to parents and finding appropriate childcare, neither of which are easily available these days and childcare is also not cheap and often neither a great standard nor flexible.

www.bloomberg.com...

High-achieving women are paid less than men even when they have similar levels of experience and are in the same fields, according to new Bloomberg Businessweek data. Women graduating business school this year reported an average of $14,548 less in expected annual pay than men, graduating MBAs said in a survey of 9,965 students at 112 schools, conducted as part of our recently published biennial ranking of MBA programs.

www.tuc.org.uk...

Women working full-time still earn almost £5,000 a year less than men, though the pay gap in some jobs is three times bigger, according to a TUC analysis of official figures published to mark Equal Pay Day today (Thursday).
Equal Pay Day marks the point at which women working full-time effectively stop earning as they are paid 15 per cent less per hour than men working full-time. But in certain professions the gender pay gap is much wider, says the TUC.
According to the research, female health professionals have the biggest pay gap at 31 per cent, which works out at £16,000 a year. A key reason for the size of the pay gap in health is the earnings of the best-paid professionals. Top male professionals in health earn nearly £50 an hour, twice as much as top earning women who earn £24.67 an hour.
Women working in culture, media and sport experience the next biggest pay gap at 27.5 per cent – which works out at £10,000 a year – while women working in manufacturing occupations earn nearly 24 per cent less than men.
Women earn less than men in 32 of the 35 major occupations classified by the Office for National Statistics. The three major occupations where women earn more than men – transport drivers, electricians and agricultural workers – are all male dominated. Fewer than 50,000 women are employed in these sectors, compared to 1.5 million men.
The gender pay gap across the private sector is 19.9 per cent, far higher than the 13.6 per cent pay gap in the public sector.
The gender pay gap is even bigger for women working part-time, who earn 35 per cent less per hour than men working full-time. Equal Pay Day for women working part-time was back on 27 August.
The TUC believes that as four decades of equal pay legislation have only halved – rather than eradicated – the gender pay gap, a tougher approach is needed to stop millions of workers losing out on pay and career opportunities, simply because of their gender.
One of the reasons for the gender pay gap is the lack of transparency in pay systems that allow companies to pay female employees less than their male colleagues, without staff even being aware of it, says the TUC. Publishing annual gender pay gap information and conducting regular pay audits would enable companies to identify any gender pay gaps, and take action to close them.
However, with just one in 100 companies voluntarily publishing equal pay information, the TUC wants the government to legislate and make audits compulsory additions to annual company reports.
More senior level part-time jobs are also needed to help women continue their careers after having children, says the TUC. Too many women are forced to trade down their jobs and abandon their careers just to find working hours that can fit around their childcare arrangements.

I never implied we were equal with men yet. Yes there's still more to be done such as decreasing the pay gap.

But that doesn't change the fact the men are feeling marginalized and threatened with their increasingly "optional" role in a female's life.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JadeStar

I've had a female boss before and I have no problem taking orders from a woman.

I'm married so I'm used to taking orders from a woman.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: JadeStar

The Swiss have a good idea for that.

jezebel.com...

April 9 was equal pay day in the U.S., where the wage gap remains a stubbornly high 23%. In Switzerland, where the gap is closer to an even 20%, a bank cooperated with a local women's organization to make this video dramatizing that country's wage gap. When men tried to withdraw CHF100 from an ATM, they received CHF80 instead. Their variously angry, bewildered, and violent reactions — until the ATM receipts explain the prank — are priceless.

OMG That's Awesome! Can I be your friend? Your posts are becoming some of my favorites on ATS.

originally posted by: FlySolo
Male bosses don't have the complex women have so they're much more relaxed. Guys get along much better this way because that's how we're wired. Drama free. Throw a man hating assertive female boss with an inferiority complex into a male dominated workplace and watch what happens...

Google spent a tidy sum studying this phenomena and to this day only portions of the results have been released to the public. Can't say exactly what they discovered, but it can't be good if only tiny portions of the findings have been disclosed.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Men being paid more in the workplace for the same jobs suggests otherwise.

Women are expected to have a career and anyone with intelligence knows that it isn't a great plan in expecting a man to pay for everything all your life or even to be in the same relationship after years, therefore it is imperative that women are able to support themselves for their own safety and security.

Many women in the workplace are supporting their families themselves whilst also having children which means finding jobs with the right hours, that are flexible to parents and finding appropriate childcare, neither of which are easily available these days and childcare is also not cheap and often neither a great standard nor flexible.

www.bloomberg.com...

High-achieving women are paid less than men even when they have similar levels of experience and are in the same fields, according to new Bloomberg Businessweek data. Women graduating business school this year reported an average of $14,548 less in expected annual pay than men, graduating MBAs said in a survey of 9,965 students at 112 schools, conducted as part of our recently published biennial ranking of MBA programs.

www.tuc.org.uk...

Women working full-time still earn almost £5,000 a year less than men, though the pay gap in some jobs is three times bigger, according to a TUC analysis of official figures published to mark Equal Pay Day today (Thursday).
Equal Pay Day marks the point at which women working full-time effectively stop earning as they are paid 15 per cent less per hour than men working full-time. But in certain professions the gender pay gap is much wider, says the TUC.
According to the research, female health professionals have the biggest pay gap at 31 per cent, which works out at £16,000 a year. A key reason for the size of the pay gap in health is the earnings of the best-paid professionals. Top male professionals in health earn nearly £50 an hour, twice as much as top earning women who earn £24.67 an hour.
Women working in culture, media and sport experience the next biggest pay gap at 27.5 per cent – which works out at £10,000 a year – while women working in manufacturing occupations earn nearly 24 per cent less than men.
Women earn less than men in 32 of the 35 major occupations classified by the Office for National Statistics. The three major occupations where women earn more than men – transport drivers, electricians and agricultural workers – are all male dominated. Fewer than 50,000 women are employed in these sectors, compared to 1.5 million men.
The gender pay gap across the private sector is 19.9 per cent, far higher than the 13.6 per cent pay gap in the public sector.
The gender pay gap is even bigger for women working part-time, who earn 35 per cent less per hour than men working full-time. Equal Pay Day for women working part-time was back on 27 August.
The TUC believes that as four decades of equal pay legislation have only halved – rather than eradicated – the gender pay gap, a tougher approach is needed to stop millions of workers losing out on pay and career opportunities, simply because of their gender.
One of the reasons for the gender pay gap is the lack of transparency in pay systems that allow companies to pay female employees less than their male colleagues, without staff even being aware of it, says the TUC. Publishing annual gender pay gap information and conducting regular pay audits would enable companies to identify any gender pay gaps, and take action to close them.
However, with just one in 100 companies voluntarily publishing equal pay information, the TUC wants the government to legislate and make audits compulsory additions to annual company reports.
More senior level part-time jobs are also needed to help women continue their careers after having children, says the TUC. Too many women are forced to trade down their jobs and abandon their careers just to find working hours that can fit around their childcare arrangements.

I never implied we were equal with men yet. Yes there's still more to be done such as decreasing the pay gap.

But that doesn't change the fact the men are feeling marginalized and threatened with their increasingly "optional" role in a female's life.

How can we make men feel more comfortable as this shifts?

a reply to: JadeStar

i was promoted to a managerial role and guys are always trying to question my decisions, undermine me, etc

I'm not saying your gender may not be contributing to it as I don't know your circumstances, but I do see people often using sexual orientation and race as a scapegoat or the easy conclusion as why something is happening.

Typically , new management gets treated like that regardless of sex or race in many occupations that I have seen.

As I a guy I had it happen to me because I was young in the position I earned. In the end its up to you to prove them wrong . Once I proved my self they backed down. I knew my age was going to be an issue for some, so what? Same thing with my race, so what? I figured out quickly that my education , expertise, and knowledge is what made me an asset.

Life isn't fair for many regardless of your gender , race, or age. It just so happens in this day and age that its become politically correct to blame the white guy for everything and minorities as the victims.

Note I'm not a white guy, but I see what is happening and to me this victimization of women and minorities is B$ and a way to keep us fighting among each other.

Everyone has to deal with inequality and unfairness in their life, the only ones that don't are the children of the .05% that have the real money. Money is the only thing that appears to make the playing field fair and in your favor.

If we are trying to make everyone life fair , I say forget get color and gender and show me the money.

A lot depends on the industry.

In the movie/TV business, females are as prominent and receive equal pay as their male counterparts.
Department heads are as likely to be female as male.
I do see some male resentment in the "grip" "gaffer" transportation, union trades but in production, writing, casting, set design/dec,props,
Camera units, none at all.

Wardrobe and Hair and make depts. are almost exclusively women but that is changing as well.

as interupter42 said....

If we are trying to make everyone life fair , I say forget get color and gender and show me the money.

I have seen all of these issues manifest regardless of gender.

Interesting thing, that.

a reply to: JadeStar

How can we make men feel more comfortable as this shifts?

You don't we take it like men. We know the world isn't fair and we aren't going to always win but we will figure a way to make it work for us men.

Inequality has always existed and will continue to exist.

a reply to: JadeStar

I've had female bosses before, I felt no problems or loss of masculinity whatsoever. It's mostly other male bosses in my life that were horrible.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

What a ridiculous answer. I don't know if that's something I would admit quite like that. A boss is a boss regardless of gender but I wouldn't just take orders from an incompetent boss male or female. Your answer didn't make you sound as masculine as you thought. More of a yes m'am right away m'am because you think being the only guy on the cheerleader squad makes you cool.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

It is all fueled by society and that includes men.

All the heterosexual women I know, regardless of their career status, see having a relationship as imperative, in fact most see marriage as essential to their being and social status.

Though the ''optional'' part you mentioned is because as I said before, women have to be able to provide for themselves and that has taken away many relationships that might only have existed before due to society making demands on women of reliance on husbands, regardless of how terrible or abusive they were, they didn't have any choice but endurance, now there is choice.

Also, the sexual objectification of women in media has caused more competition between women for relationships and also has fueled more men being single and marrying older if at all due to the availability of women for non committed relationships, one night stands etc.

The way to fix it is for making women truly equal in the workplace, in pay, in society and in general.

And ''marginalized'' probably just translates in reality to not being treated as 'infallible centres of the universe and ruler over women and the household' any more.

originally posted by: interupt42


If we are trying to make everyone life fair , I say forget get color and gender and show me the money.

I do like money. Pay me well and I don't care who my boss is--although I kind of like my boss being me.