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Two Questions for Transgender people

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posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: interupt42




However, do you have a transgender acceptance radar?


It isn't necessary. Firstly the onus of disclosure is on the transphobe, secondly assaulting people is inherently wrong to start with and thirdly personally people are attracted to me BECAUSE i am Trans. I am out and open. Everyone in the entire region knows i am Trans (i've been on the front page of the local paper delivered free to every door in this city and the towns around it).



So Homophobe and Transphobe is a good thing and not a negative connotation , got it


Good? Is Cancer good? It's a sad thing deserving of sympathy and pity and help. Just not a slur if used correctly.



So has hermaphrodite.


Not for humans any more. That term along with several others were replaced by Intersex (As hermaphrodite was only used for a small number of forms of Intersex). Now Hermaphrodite applies only to specific whole species like snails but is no longer used for humans.



Sure , if that makes you feel better. It couldn't be possibly that i had lost interest with your post and decided to not reply to each and every point which sounded rather irrelevant to what I said.


That would be a very sad way for you to lose all your arguments at once, just from not paying attention! Go back to those two points and re-read them and understand them before replying, as the entire thread depends on them. They aren't just relevant they are central. Your very own disclosure argument is at stake.




posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: interupt42

I'll quote the relevant part again, just to make it easier for you:

Now let's not ignore that having these serious harmful repressions brought to the surface could be quite distressing and painful, but who is responsible for that?

The sufferer of the illness is. They have a responsibility to get any mental illness they have which might impact other people treated. If that means they cannot risk dating or sleeping with anyone because there's between a 1 in 10 and 1 in 30-ish chance with every partner that they are Transgender and 1 in 100 that they are Intersex until after they have had sufficient therapy then that's their responsibility. Not the Transgender and Intersex people they sleep with.

Should the Trans/Intersex people disclose? Well most Intersex people do not know they are Intersex! Many are surgically altered by doctors when babies (sometimes even the parents don't get told!) and many don't find out till they become professional international athletes or during pregnancy or attempts to get pregnant. And as for Transgender people why would the onus be on them to disclose? Doesn't every person Cis and Trans alike deserve to know if the person they are considering sleeping with is a Transphobe? Should not the Transphobe disclose their potential issue long before the potential-trans/potential-Intersex person even considers whether or not to disclose their personal medical history if they even know it?

After all, lets look at who is maximally impacted. Trans people are at least 1 in 30 people, and they will usually have parents, siblings, cousins, ex's, friends who it can be reasonably assumed would be distressed to learn that they slept with a transphobe. So more people are likely to be upset that they slept with a transphobe than there will be transphobes who have had sex with a Trans person. As the risk of sleeping with a transphobe effects a greater amount of people than will ever sleep with a trans person then clearly it is the transphobe who has the obligation to disclose so that their potential partner can decide to find someone better to have sex with instead.

So the Transperson doesn't need to disclose, the transphobes do. Ever having sex without disclosing they are a transphobe is a tacit acknowledgement that there will be a risk that the person slept with is Trans or Intersex and acceptance of that risk. Especially as, as i said, most Intersex people do not know they are Intersex and so cannot disclose that.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 01:19 AM
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a reply to: Bayne




The sufferer of the illness is. They have a responsibility to get any mental illness they have which might impact other people treated.

Agreed but who are you suggesting that has the mental illness?

Are you saying that the person born with a male body but feels like a women, is suffering from mental illness?

Or are you suggesting that a man that doesn't want to have sex with a women who was once a man suffering from mental illness?

Or are you suggesting that a women that doesn't want to have sex with a man who was once a woman suffering from mental illness?

Or are you suggesting that temporary insanity doesn't exist?

How is the relevant?



Should the Trans/Intersex people disclose? Well most Intersex people do not know they are Intersex!

How is this relevant. If the intersex person isn't aware , how could they be held accountable. The transgender is aware of both the truth and the POTENTIAL impact to others.




And as for Transgender people why would the onus be on them to disclose? Doesn't every person Cis and Trans alike deserve to know if the person they are considering sleeping with is a Transphobe? Should not the Transphobe disclose their potential issue long before the potential-trans/potential-Intersex person even considers whether or not to disclose their personal medical history if they even know it?

Society has disclosed their potential issue , or are you saying that society has embraced Transgender people? If so than whats with all this transgender talk?




So more people are likely to be upset that they slept with a transphobe

So better reason to be honest and upfront about it and ask the person they are about to have sex if they are a transphobe. Chances are they are transphobe , by how society has treated the transgender community.

Or are you suggesting that things are peachy for the transgender community by the masses?





it is the transphobe who has the obligation to disclose

They have, society hasn't embraced Transgender or we wouldn't be discussing this or it wouldn't be on the MSM as a hot topic.

I'm not saying its right nor do I like it, but that is the reality today.




So the Transperson doesn't need to disclose, the transphobes do

Again the transphobes have disclosed by not fully accepting transgender. AGAIN I'm NOT saying is right but is the reality.

On a good note it looks like its going in the right direction with the recent military ruling, but just not there yet.
edit on 37731America/ChicagoThu, 16 Jul 2015 01:37:12 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 01:49 AM
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a reply to: Bayne
Its a fact that a lot of babies with indeterminate gender, were tidied up at the hospital very soon after birth. Its far more common than most people would realise. Socio sexual roles, are purely a matter of personal comfort, and conditioning. Why should anyone have to disclose , their personal history of any medical procedure once the result has been finalised , to the subjects satisfaction?. As far as entering a long term relationship goes, it would be enough to state, that having a natural birth is out of the question, as it is for many naturally born females.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:08 AM
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a reply to: interupt42




Agreed but who are you suggesting that has the mental illness? Are you saying that the person born with a male body but feels like a women, is suffering from mental illness? Or are you suggesting that a man that doesn't want to have sex with a women who was once a man suffering from mental illness? Or are you suggesting that a women that doesn't want to have sex with a man who was once a woman suffering from mental illness?


I've already said studies show the vast majority of homophobes have repressed same sex attraction. The Trans gene was found in 2008 and brain differences supporting their self-identification back in the 90s.

So the phobes have the mental illness. Transgender people really do have cross-sex neuroanatomy just like they always said.




How is this relevant. If the intersex person isn't aware , how could they be held accountable. The transgender is aware of both the truth and the POTENTIAL impact to others.


It's not just relevant it totally flips the issue 180 degrees. As Intersex people ALSO exist the homophobes just can't have sex with ANYONE and avoid ever having sex with a man. It means they must be celibate or deal with it.
The Transgender person is less responsible than the homophobe is for the outcome. And as i said setting of the Homophobes pre-existing psychological condition may just help the homophobe recover.



Society has disclosed their potential issue , or are you saying that society has embraced Transgender people? If so than whats with all this transgender talk?


Try re-reading what i said, as you seem to have misunderstood.
The Tranbsphobe/Homophopbe must disclose to their prospective partner first that they are a Transphobe/Homophobe. It is only if they do that FIRST that the Trans/Intersex or Cis person has to consider disclosing if they decide they might still like to sleep with that person.



So better reason to be honest and upfront about it and ask the person they are about to have sex if they are a transphobe. Chances are they are transphobe , by how society has treated the transgender community.


No the onus is on the transphobe to disclose. This is because a relative or friend of a trans person would also likely object to sex with a transphobe, not just Trans people themselves, and when you count all the friends and family of 3% to 10%+ of the population you end up with a very large part of the population indeed.

After all a Cisgender sister of a Transgender person has no need to disclose that their sister is Transgender, but very well may be distressed if they find the person they slept with was a Transphobe. So the Transphobe must be the one to disclose.

Estimates of people with strongly transphobic views put them, in Australia, at less than 4% (Based off things like the polling done previous to the Australian anti-discrimination legislation) while strongly in favour is 40%. So it's likely the vast majority are actually pro-trans, even though they have had less say in systemic structures of oppression till now. It doesn't actually take a lot of people to oppress a group and cause severe discrimination, just for the majority to assume that the majority are bigots and let the minority who are bigots get away with it.

But as i said the reality of Intersex, and for that matter than some Female to Male Trans people will not be self-aware that they are Trans till later in life well into established relationships, means that Homophobes and Transphobes can only avoid sex with someone who is Intersex or Trans by being celibate. Those that want to minimise it MUST disclose that they are transphobes, but they cannot prevent sex with Intersex people or for example with Transgender men who have yet to realise they are Trans.

The only option for Transphobes really is to go get therapy to get over their repression, or never have sex, ever.
Oh.. and unless they get themselves tested they don't know if they themselves may be Intersex or not!



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 02:16 AM
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originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Bayne
Its a fact that a lot of babies with indeterminate gender, were tidied up at the hospital very soon after birth. Its far more common than most people would realise. Socio sexual roles, are purely a matter of personal comfort, and conditioning. Why should anyone have to disclose , their personal history of any medical procedure once the result has been finalised , to the subjects satisfaction?. As far as entering a long term relationship goes, it would be enough to state, that having a natural birth is out of the question, as it is for many naturally born females.


Exactly. interupt42 would have no problem if i had been born intersex. even if my parents told me i was born intersex he'd still have no problem. but he says "oh no, you were born a MAN" (cue scary music), which is of course nonsense since a man is an adult. no one is born a man. he also ignores that i never had a man's or for that matter boy's brain.

all he is doing is arguing for the surgical correction of girls like me but done without our knowledge before we turn what? 2? 3? what's the cutoff age for his "manhood"?

that way no ones feelings would ever get hurt because if i didn't know i had been born differently then there would be nothing to disclose right? So following his logic, in his mind it would ONLY THEN be ok for me to have a normal sex life.

I suppose it would be fine if i had amnesia too?

Forget the fact that from the point of view of the guy he is so concerned about, nothing would be different since he wouldn't know in either case.


interrupt42 is ignorant because he ignores an inconvenient fact which would inform the main issue: i am never lying when i say i was born a girl differently.

key word: girl, not boy, not man.

our sense of self, of who we are, comes from our brain.

my neurological activity would indicate i am female and always would have indicated that, surgery or no surgery, my brain would be the same as any other girl this hypothetical guy would be pick up in the club for this hypothetical one night stand. An encounter where as Domo said, the guy would have "no concern for my emotions" or any sort of relationship beyond sex.

But somehow i should be expected to be concerned with his?
edit on 16-7-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 03:26 AM
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a reply to: JadeStar

The problem lies not with anyone having transgender issues, but with the fear that a small percentage , of the population have, their own sexual identity problems, which might develop into sexual violence problems, caused by their own identity issues. The areas of the brain wired for sex, are very close to the violence centres, so if were talking brain wiring, certain types have some sort of overflow, that requires agro to turn them on.They have their own demons to deal with. The sad fact is that one problem begets another, and its probably best not to get involved with people with this type of personality disorder, as they will always be seeking a resolution for their issues, whether it becomes Gay bashing , or any other of the ways it can manifest.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 04:11 AM
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originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: interupt42
Great Cthulhu, this thread became a wreck. I'll have some of that coffee now.


Sheezus... trueee. I'm sorry everyone...



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 04:53 AM
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Thank you for contributing with some science and actual data... some of the emotional back and forth is getting pretty intense here. Up to 20% ??! That's wild...



What upsets you more, that someone you dated might have been born with a girls brain and always was a girl on the inside but may have had their body changed so it matched who they really were or that they were born with a girls body but was a guy on the inside the whole time?


That's a really interesting question and perhaps the crux of this entire discussion: What more does a woman make: The brain or the body/chromosomes?

I had mentioned earlier in the thread that maybe it makes sense that those who wouldn't want to sleep with a transgender to politely telegraph that so it doesn't become a problem later... but is that a productive solution? And if so what would be a realistic way to do that? Because straight up asking everyone about it is about as ridiculous as expecting everyone born differently to tell everyone.
edit on 16-7-2015 by solarjetman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 05:15 AM
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Reminds me of this movie called The Crying Game.



www.imdb.com...

It's a damn good movie so I wont spoil for you.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 05:39 AM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Pinke


There is actually a debate within various schools of feminism as to whether transsexuals are welcome or not.


That blows my mind. The amount of schisms present in the Feminist movement are impressive. For a group of people seeking acceptance and equality, they (some) sure do spend a lot of time debating who merits speaking in their presence.

Luckily, people are moving away from that, and Egalitarianism is slowly becoming the norm.

I don't want to labor on it, because it'll be moving towards off-topic buuuuuuut ...

It's not that surprising really. Any group once it gets enough momentum to enact social change falls in on itself and splinters into new groups to an extent, even small ones. Atheists have been doing it over the last few decades. Found out recently the 'Men's Rights Movement' has some left / right split going on. Various forms of Marxism fell out a long time ago. Even professionals like psychologists have splits.

It'll happen to any forms of Egalitarianism as soon as the group gets large enough. Different branches form over each complex issue etc ... Then you'll have Soft Egalitarianism, Meritocracy Based Egalitarianism, Kantian Egalitarianism ... etc etc etc haha



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 06:06 AM
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originally posted by: Pinke

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Pinke


There is actually a debate within various schools of feminism as to whether transsexuals are welcome or not.


That blows my mind. The amount of schisms present in the Feminist movement are impressive. For a group of people seeking acceptance and equality, they (some) sure do spend a lot of time debating who merits speaking in their presence.

Luckily, people are moving away from that, and Egalitarianism is slowly becoming the norm.

I don't want to labor on it, because it'll be moving towards off-topic buuuuuuut ...

It's not that surprising really. Any group once it gets enough momentum to enact social change falls in on itself and splinters into new groups to an extent, even small ones. Atheists have been doing it over the last few decades. Found out recently the 'Men's Rights Movement' has some left / right split going on. Various forms of Marxism fell out a long time ago. Even professionals like psychologists have splits.

It'll happen to any forms of Egalitarianism as soon as the group gets large enough. Different branches form over each complex issue etc ... Then you'll have Soft Egalitarianism, Meritocracy Based Egalitarianism, Kantian Egalitarianism ... etc etc etc haha

This can be seen every were, there is only a place for one boss, so some one who want power starts a splinter group, and so it goes on and on. A bit of a simplistic answer by myself but i think its valid



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 06:11 AM
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Im a bit surprised MODs have not jumped in, this thread is becoming a multiple train wreak. But to be honest its one of the most interesting and needed threads in a long time



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: Bayne

May I ask a question?

When you use the term transphobe, I assume you mean that in the same way as people use the word homophobe, or xenophobe?

If so, would you mind defining what makes a person a transphobe? Does, for example, having a sexual preference for persons who are not transgendered count? If so, why?

The only reason I ask, is that I happen to believe that everyone ought to be free to be who they are, and support the right of friends of mine to do that very thing. I also disagree with people who belittle the entire subject and dismiss transgendered people under whatever banner of stupidity they happen to wish to march beneath. However, where my personal preferences where sexual partners is concerned, I feel conflicted, because I know myself well enough to be absolutely clear about my needs, but am now worried that a preference for persons who are not transgendered as a sexual partner, would mark me out as trans phobic, and I am not a hater. Never have been.

I have made it my mission in life to support the rights of people to be who they are, and do what they can to fulfil themselves for a very long time. Be they homosexual, suffering gender dysphoria, from other lands to the one in which I was born, from other cultures and religions, I love everyone and I want everyone to be as close to happy as they possibly can, and that very much includes transgendered people.

So I guess my real question would be, does my preference for people who have never been remotely uncomfortable with their gender, mark me with the transphobic brush? Does my need to be in a relationship with someone who has always been as comfortable in their skin, as I always have been, make me a transphobe?



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: JadeStar


Again,you guys with the personal attacks.


It has nothing to do with me or my fears. I have no concern for what you do nor any concern that I will be with a transgender as I'm married and have been married for over 16 years.

You guys are going of on tangents and are trying to make your own arguments that have nothing todo with what I said.

I'm not saying that society is right to feel like the following but its the reality of the world today. As a matter of fact I have stated the opposite , that it is NOT right that society feels like that.

However, in todays world:

1. You are aware that society has not fully accepted transgenders or even understand transgenders .

2. You are aware that the majority of society still views you as being the sex you were born with , regardless how awesome the surgery came out or the science behind it.

3. You had time to cope with coming to terms with being transgenders.

4. Whether you like it or not and regardless of whether it is right or wrong the fact is, that their are plenty of people out their that would have a difficult time coping with such circumstances.

Yet, from what I'm seeing here, the transgender community could care less about hurting others and are only concerned with their feelings and emotions.

I find that irresponsible and equally selfish as the hompobes you like to ridicule so much.


I have answered all the irrelevant questions you guys have posted but not one of you has answered mine:

If you are aware that many people would have a hard time dealing with the truth after sexual contact and you ignore that , how is that not irresponsible or selfish?

That logic applies to everyone NOT just transgenders, so why should you be exempt from common courtesy or the caring of others?

edit on 21731America/ChicagoThu, 16 Jul 2015 09:21:45 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 09:06 AM
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The most important and revealing thing that I have seen in this thread is what ~Tenth said.




Another thing to realize is that your community has not been well represented.


I'm not saying the members here represent the community but to a small degree they do.

What I have seen primarily in this thread is personal attacks, hate , and intolerance the exact same things they are fighting against? I couldn't agree more with the ~Tenth

I fully accept everyone as equals and support everyone in their pursuit of happiness including transgender as long as it doesn't hurt others. However, that doesn't mean I won't call out hypocrisy when I see it.

Despite your personal attacks , I truly wish you happiness and I accept and respect who you are. However, I see no value in trying to continue with the replies .

edit on 50731America/ChicagoThu, 16 Jul 2015 09:50:13 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Sure that's a fair question.

Defining transphobe, like homophobe, is difficult as without having a 100% unbiased culture (left) to have a comparison it's really hard to know what things may have their roots in unconscious prejudice.
There may be ways to sort it out though.

If you would be ok with a cisgender woman who was infertile, but not a transsexual woman who has had the full genital surgery (Many gynecologists cannot tell!) then where is the difference that matters to you there? That might be a sign of a problem.

Now many Trans people don't have genital surgery, and some peoples sexual orientation is about the plumbing not the gender of the person, so if you'd be ok with a transsexual who had genital surgery and not with one who hadn't, and you'd be ok with a partner who was a Transgender man but kept the genitals more often found in cisgender women, then you'd have discovered that your orientation is really about genitals not gender.

Questions like that may help you identify why you feel the way you do, and by discovering that reveal if you've unintentionally absorbed some of the prejudice from the culture you've grown up in. There are ways to undo those prejudices though, and to undo repressed sexual orientation too, but not ways to change a persons actual sexual orientation.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: Bayne

I understand the things you have said, but they do not really answer my question. You see, my preference, amongst any others I might have, is for someone who has always been certain of themselves, has never had need to question their own gender, or for that matter, anyone else's, and the reason for that is nothing to do with sexuality, and rather more to do with psychology.

I have been in too many relationships (that I ever had to enter into more than one in my life is anathema to my soul, but there you go) where my opposite number has had so many hang ups, so much baggage, that it has made the actual function of a relationship absolutely impossible, and these baggages and hangups were mostly born of far less impactful origins than something like gender dysphoria or any related physiological or psychological status or circumstance.

I have been through enough. All I want in life is a partner whose resolve is ironclad, and who has, since the moment they attained sentience, been steadfast in their understanding of themselves and utterly comfortable with what they found. That is the only deal breaker I have in my life now. I have never had a type, but I used to think it would be nice to be with a woman who likes the same sort of music as I do, or is interested in science and nature like I am. But the older I get, the more I realise all I want is a woman who shares that solidarity of self that comes of being comfortable from the get go, with being who they are, and never seeking to change themselves worth a damn.

So the question, once again... Based on the reasoning I outline above, am I a transphobe because I have a preference which does not include transgendered people, or am I free to make my choices about who I would and would not choose for a partner, without being labelled such?



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: interupt42




It has nothing to do with me or my fears. I have no concern for what you do nor any concern that I will be with a transgender as I'm married and have been married for over 16 years.


Has your partner been tested for being Intersex? Were they your first partner? How can you know they won't discover they are Transgender and be a late-transitioning Transgender Man?
And even if my arguments didn't apply personally to you they do apply to every person who is personally invested in Trans disclosure. So you saying they aren't directly relevant to you doesn't matter as you aren't directly relevant to the subject of disclosure anyway.



1. You are aware that society has not fully accepted transgenders or even understand transgenders .


Yes, and as equality is a mutually interdependent contract of citizenry in any rights-based Democracy of which the USA was the world leader then it's an obligation of every citizen to change this. As soon as a person learns that the inequality problem exists they gain the responsibility for fixing it.



2. You are aware that the majority of society still views you as being the sex you were born with , regardless how awesome the surgery came out or the science behind it.


Majority? Your evidence that this is the majority view please. However in a rights-based democracy the majority is still beholden to the rights of the minority even a minority of just one person. That's why we have rights instead of just majoritanism.



3. You had time to cope with coming to terms with being transgenders.


And Internalized Oppression to overcome which actually means self-acceptance takes more time and is harder for many Transgender people than for Cisgender people.



4. Whether you like it or not and regardless of whether it is right or wrong the fact is, that their are plenty of people out their that would have a difficult time coping with such circumstances.


So? Some people had trouble coping with desegregation. Some people had trouble with women being allowed into schools and universities and workplaces. The pain of a racist and having to deal with equality is like the sting of antiseptic, it hurts but is good for them. It helps them get over it. Fairness and Justice requires those emotionally invested in unfairness and injustice to suffer fairness and justice. Their suffering doesn't hold a candle to the suffering of continuing the unfairness and injustice.



Yet, from what I'm seeing here, the transgender community could care less about hurting others and are only concerned with their feelings and emotions.


No i've made it clear that i have compassion towards the self-hating same-sex attracted homophobes with repressed same-sex attraction. But like putting antiseptic on a wound can hurt but save a life or save a limb the suffering they go through from having to live in a world where gay people are treated fairly helps them heal their own psychological problem, and is a healing pain not one that causes harm.



I find that irresponsible and equally selfish as the hompobes you like to ridicule so much.


That's a false equivalence. Transgender people face a prejudice-caused average attempted suicide rate of between 30% and 54% depending on the amount of prejudice they encounter. Transgender youths who have been assaulted (1 in 5 in less-violent Australia) have the suicidal ideation rate leap from 38% to 90%
What's the death toll of Homophobes forced to live in a fair society?

Well as most Homophobes are Gay or Bi themselves, and we know that it's during the time a Gay or Bi person is struggling with self-acceptance that they are at greatest risk and that risk drops when they do accept themselves then actually the Homophobe suicide rate whatever it may be will decline as they come to terms with being Gay or Bi themselves.

So they aren't two opposite but equal things, one position has a horrific death toll on one side and a presumably bad one for the other, and the other position saves lives on both sides and is just and equal and is a fundamental requirement in a rights-based democracy anyway.



I have answered all the irrelevant questions you guys have posted but not one of you has answered mine: If you are aware that many people would have a hard time dealing with the truth after sexual contact and you ignore that , how is that not irresponsible or selfish? That logic applies to everyone NOT just transgenders, so why should you be exempt from common courtesy or the caring of others?


I did but i'll be happy to answer it again and moreso for you.

1, the need of a starving child outweighs the want of a fat greedy spoiled brat even if they both cry tears.

2, accepting having repressed trans-attraction is good for the people who are transphobes because they have repressed trans-attraction, the ones more likely to be upset are the ones who more likely will not only need it but will be drawn to Trans people unconsciously too, picking up on subtle clues of bone structure etc.

3, the Transphobe has an even greater obligation to disclose. This is a greater obligation to everyone they may sleep with Cis or Trans or Intersex who may not want to discover after the fact that they slept with a transphobe.

4, as the chances are high enough that they may sleep with a female to male transgender person before that person realizes they are Transgender, or an Intersex person who does not even know they are Transgender a Transphobe cannot expect to completely avoid the possibility of sleeping with a Trans or Intersex person unless they remain forever celibate.

5, if the transphobe didn't disclose first, which they should as i explained they have the greater obligation, then reciprocal ethics makes it within the trans persons rights not to disclose either.

6, most Transgender people DO disclose, putting it right there on their dating profile, only seek out trans-accepting partners, less than 1 in 500 people get genital surgery (compared to a minimum of 1 in 33 approx people being trans!!!) so most will be obvious before the fact is done as soon as people strip down and also, critically, very few Transgender people pass perfectly even after surgery so many people can tell (though some naturally androgynous looking Cis people do experience transphobia from people mistaking them to be Trans). Which means that you objections relate to
a minority
of a minority
of a minority
of a minority
of a minority
of Transgender people.

So what you have is a storm in a teacup. It's not remotely a major issue in all the many issues of Transgender people. A concern which is insignificant compared to the horrific death toll Transgender people face let alone the murder, assault and rape, discrimination in housing, education, work.... It's like comparing a single snowflake to all the ice on antarctica the two aren't remotely close to equivalent.



posted on Jul, 16 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

But many Transgender people ARE steadfast in their gender identity since they could talk. That their body needed fixing has no bearing on the certainty of their minds. If anything you may find greater certainty in many Transgender people than in Cisgender ones when it comes to their gender identity.

Though let me suggest that ironclad will and drive and certainty in all things is something for a Nietzsche style Ubermensch and ludicrously rare. Even the most extreme examples i've met in my 39 years on this planet are less than 100%. It's also suicidally stupid if taken to the extreme you seem to suggest as doubt, re-evaluation and willingness to discover a previously held view is wrong is utterly critical to decent cognitive skills and the very learning process so i'm afraid your ideal may well be impossible but even approaching it could find for you a partner utterly incompatible with anyone who is emotionally crippled, unable to resolve disputes where they were in error and incapable of the growth and cooperation essential for a lasting relationship.

But as i said, your reasoning on Trans is faulty. While some Transgender people do come to self-acceptance in later years a great number of late-transitioners always knew they were Trans and just hid that fact for years to avoid physical harm or discrimination, and as prejudice has been declining over the decades an increasing number are transitioning before puberty who always knew their gender identity. So by excluding Trans people you are quite likely missing out on some of the people with quite strong determination and sense of self awareness rather than being without it as you assume.




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