Two Questions for Transgender people

originally posted by: Bayne

originally posted by: solarjetman

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Bayne
a reply to: Domo1

Humanity used to be pro-Transgender and Transgender people were part of everyday life, in some places this was less than 200 years ago and some it was even within living memory.

And I've heard still is in Thailand.

Samoa as well, although they define it altogether differently... Fa’afafines: The Third Gender

Indeed and all of Polynesia once had such traditions as part of everyday life, including Hawaii.

And here is where i'd like to hear more discussion appropriate to the site. Because Trans people have traditionally been seen as closer to the spirits or gods of the worlds belief systems. Often being Shaman or priests and priestesses. A lot of modern western civilisation included attempted extermination of Transgender people and cultural relevance despite occultism often retaining notions of sacred mixing of gender.

In the myths of the Vikings Thor Odin and Loki all became Transgender in order to practice the greater magic of Seidr. In the Babylonian Talmud Abraham the father of Judaism Christianity and Islam was said to be Intersex. The nommos of mesopotamian myth cycles that many say were ancient aliens were a mixture of male and female, Ishtar was saved from the Underworld by a being both male and female made out of starlight scraped out of the sky by Marduk's red-painted fingernails and made into a being of incomparable beauty named Asu-shu-namir that rescued Ishtar and was cursed by one goddess and blessed by another for their efforts.

So the fact we need this conversation is because of how successful attempts to eradicate trans from everyday life and it's past spiritual/religious/cultural/political position but it's failure to erase it entirely. Any understanding of civilisation and the various attempts to shape it needs to have a major Transgender element and perspective.

And as a UFO witness myself i wonder if there is any higher incidence of such experiences for Transgender people.

You drop some serious knowledge Bayne! I think this post alone actually deserves it's own thread! It does make me wonder if my interest in such subjects are linked. Could my interest in Astrobiology just be a modern day, western scientific manifestation of it all?

a reply to: JadeStar

It probably generates a more creative mind set, as it opens the possibility of alternative outlooks, which can create a more fertile field for forming ideas. As relationships, are essential for the gregarious mind-set of humankind, it would come with its good side and bad side , like anything else.

Is it becoming more common today that people are born as males who should actually have been born as females, and vice versa? It seems so, from all the media on it, and so many threads discussing the topic.

Why is the media now pushing it so much, as if it's a common thing?

There has always been a small percentage of people who are homosexuals, but it seems there are more today, than ever before. Or is the media portraying it as more common today, when it is actually about the same percentage of the population as before?

Around the world, there are annual parades to celebrate pride in having an abnormal sexual preference.

These parades don't show homosexuals acting no different than anyone else, it displays them as a group of sex-craved deviants.

It doesn't make sense..

a reply to: JadeStar

Science, when viewed from the position of psychology, is often pursued in order to understand the self, as much as it is pursued to understand the universe. In many minds, the two are not easily separated from one another. Much is learned of one, by study of the other.

originally posted by: Pinke
a reply to: Domo1

Yes, if trans* (including intersexed and the like) could simply state their situation then the 'problem' would be solved. This is nothing to do with accepting anything. Being trans* is not like having spiky hair. It's not the same as possessing a particular trait that some do not prefer, it's possessing a particular trait that some people hate. The trans* person has limited power to influence society in this regard.

So is being Jewish. Should a Jew who passes for WASP confide that they are Jewish in case they sleep with an anti-Semite?

Now considering that the already extraordinary level of murders of Trans people is increasing right now with no sex involved in most cases like the elderly woman lured to an SUV to be knifed in the neck should a Jewish person who passed for a non-Jewish German or Pole have admitted to being Jewish in early Nazi Germany before the death camps but after the murdering was already well underway?

originally posted by: turbonium1
Is it becoming more common today that people are born as males who should actually have been born as females, and vice versa? It seems so, from all the media on it, and so many threads discussing the topic.

Why is the media now pushing it so much, as if it's a common thing?

There has always been a small percentage of people who are homosexuals, but it seems there are more today, than ever before. Or is the media portraying it as more common today, when it is actually about the same percentage of the population as before?

Around the world, there are annual parades to celebrate pride in having an abnormal sexual preference.

These parades don't show homosexuals acting no different than anyone else, it displays them as a group of sex-craved deviants.

It doesn't make sense..

There's no evidence of an increase in incidence just people returning to visibility. Trans used to be part of everyday life and in some countries was so quite recently. On the Tiwi Islands of the Torres Straight, part of Australia's territory 5% of the people on the islands are Trans. Ancient cultures are full of Trans. There were Trans Gods aplenty from Patrons like Cybele and Ishtar to Intersex Gods like Aphroditus/Hermaphroditus to sex-swapping Gods like Thor Odin and Loki of the Vikings to chinese Quan Yin and many more.

What we have had is a brief period of Trans being pushed underground for a while and now it's coming back. But it's no-where near equal yet. When at least 1 in every 100 newsreaders and tv hosts and tv characters are Trans it'll be getting close. So you'll be seeing a TON more Trans in the media before it just shows them in ordinary numbers equal to the amount in the community. For the media to be promoting Trans rather than still under-representing it... well 5% is one in twenty, so they'd need to be more than 1 in every 20 people on tv for the media to be promoting this.

As for pride parades, the media reporting of them go for the most exploitative footage they can find that does not represent the majority of the parade (i know, been in one, even though the Sydney Mardi Gras was televised the vehicle i was in was entirely skipped from the footage and wasn't the only one) but also you are just so used to seeing Heterosexual sexuality that you don't even notice how many bikini images there are in magazines and billboards, how much heterosexual sexuality is in music videos, how much heterosexual sexual behaviour there is on streets near nightclubs on the weekend in the late hours, think about how many people canoodle in parks or on the beach. Then think about people who can't be like that most of the year without risking being murdered and have just one time to do so where the strength in numbers makes it moderately safe? With that in mind that makes those parades tame, extremely tame. And that's without me mentioning the Heterosexual Mardi Gras with it's topless dancers on floats and ancient centuries-old history of drunken sexual abandon.

The media wanting to fill a 2 minute piece on the news will go for the most outrageous footage that won't get them in trouble. An image like this resources0.news.com.au... or this clovermoore.com.au... ot this www.abc.net.au... or this i0.wp.com... will be buried usually well behind multiple salacious images of people in short-shorts.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: JadeStar

Science, when viewed from the position of psychology, is often pursued in order to understand the self, as much as it is pursued to understand the universe. In many minds, the two are not easily separated from one another. Much is learned of one, by study of the other.

So true! TrueBrit you are so profound. I will say this, any lady who is lucky enough to meet your high standards and specifications is truly the luckiest on Earth. I could talk with you endlessly about so many subjects. Hopefully she can too.

a reply to: turbonium1

It's simply increased visibility. For so long, people like us have been made invisible, forced to hide while the gender normative world shuns us for who we are. It's only now that awareness increases that it gives the illusion that it's happening more often. This is simply the nature of media, it places things often small and overlooked under a magnifying glass, thus it appears larger than it did before.

originally posted by: honested3
But yes I think the real struggle is finding priority over mind then body rather than the other way around. It is not just a 'trans problem but a Human problem in terms of trying to further answer who we are as Humans.

Exaaaactly... mind over body would solve not only transphobia but homophobia, sexism, racism, classism... and the aliens would FINALLY be ready to visit us... lol.

a reply to: JadeStar

I really appreciate your well wishes in that regard JadeStar.

@Participators in this discussion:

It has been a pleasure to take part in this conversation so far, and I have learned a great deal from it. I would like to take the opportunity to thank everyone in this thread who has interacted with the subject matter honestly, and provided insight. Sharing of understanding is crucial, but traditionally quite difficult due to the sort of hostility that subjects like these often attract. Although it has not been free of its snags and niggles, this has been the most useful discussion I have ever taken part in, on topics relating to transgenderism.

I believe that open discussion is vital to human growth, whether the discussion be political, spiritual, or scientific, and on the rare occasion, all three at once. Given that, I believe that everyone who has involved themselves in this thread with an open mind, and an open heart, has contributed something important to the species as a whole, since better understanding benefits us all.

Give yourselves a round of applause!

originally posted by: Bayne

As for pride parades, the media reporting of them go for the most exploitative footage they can find that does not represent the majority of the parade (i know, been in one, even though the Sydney Mardi Gras was televised the vehicle i was in was entirely skipped from the footage and wasn't the only one) but also you are just so used to seeing Heterosexual sexuality that you don't even notice how many bikini images there are in magazines and billboards, how much heterosexual sexuality is in music videos, how much heterosexual sexual behaviour there is on streets near nightclubs on the weekend in the late hours, think about how many people canoodle in parks or on the beach. Then think about people who can't be like that most of the year without risking being murdered and have just one time to do so where the strength in numbers makes it moderately safe? With that in mind that makes those parades tame, extremely tame. And that's without me mentioning the Heterosexual Mardi Gras with it's topless dancers on floats and ancient centuries-old history of drunken sexual abandon.

The media wanting to fill a 2 minute piece on the news will go for the most outrageous footage that won't get them in trouble. An image like this resources0.news.com.au... or this clovermoore.com.au... ot this www.abc.net.au... or this i0.wp.com... will be buried usually well behind multiple salacious images of people in short-shorts.

Thanks, that makes sense to me. So it is the media that is making it look like the parades are just rampant orgies, when it represents just a small percentage of the entire parade.

Don't you think this would only create further hatred of homosexuals, among those who are already homophobic? I'm sure it doesn't help homophobes to understand and sympathize with your cause, at least.

You compare it to the heterosexual angle, which is good. Indeed, there are countless videos, images, etc. of sexuality, hetero sex scenes in TV shows, and movies...it has become commonplace.

The parades are the only display of homosexual sexuality, other than a few mild scenes in TV shows, which are few and far between. Homophobes do not see homosexuals in everyday life, unless they live in areas of San Francisco, or in the West End of Vancouver, which have large gay populations.

I know a couple of gays who've told me they don't like the parades, precisely because of how they are presented as one-dimensional, sex-obsessed, attention-seekers (dressed in skimpy s & m leathers, or infeathered headdresses, etc). They think it creates more hatred of gays, instead of helping their cause.

I think heterosexual displays have gone way overboard, but 'sex sells', so it won't change anytime soon. So you have a good point, in that homosexual displays are very tame by comparison. But that isn't what it looks like to Joe Public, who doesn't understand gays in the first place. Worse, it foments hatred in those who already hate gays.

I've seen gays beat up by these ignorant thugs. You probably have seen it first-hand, or perhaps you've been a victim of it, too.

Here is something you might find interesting...

I've been a victim/near victim of these very same thugs, several times in the past.

But, I am not gay, so why did they hate me?...

They hated me because I got the attention of many pretty females, and had long hair, a la David Lee Roth or Motley Crue, back in the day

I can't remember how many times I got called 'faggot', or 'queer' in hetero nightclubs and bars, over the years, by goons. I've been sucker punched, jumped, and kicked in the head. I had countless close calls, where I managed to get out of a bad situation.

It rarely happened in my everyday life. It was mainly at bars, nightclubs, or parties, when I ran into that. And it always happened when they were in a group, as well.

Sure, I could have avoided it by not going to bars, or by cutting off my long hair, if I wanted to. But I didn't, because nobody had the right to tell me how I should look, or not look.


I'm aware of how it is to be hated for being/looking different, even as they knew I was a hetero...

They hate who they are, and turn their hatred outward.


The parades are seen as helpful, by showing 'pride' in being gay, or trans, etc. Unfortunately, it may have the opposite effect, because of how the media presents it.

a reply to: turbonium1

Sorry to hear of the attacks you've experienced.

As for the misrepresentation, well not much can be done about that because the media isn't under our control. But does it really fan the flames of hatred? We know most homophobes are repressed or closeted gays and bisexuals themselves. It's been seen time and time again when anti-gay preachers and politicians have been caught with male prostitutes or outed by them.

The sexuality shown of the parades is upsetting to them because it's exactly what they want but hate themselves for wanting. But the more they see it, the more they get exposed to it, the more they may come to accept their own desires. So rather than making the problem worse it could well be the solution.

Or maybe it'll just be a matter of gradual change. Now the majority of people in the Western world are no longer significantly bigoted towards Gays those who are will face increasing social isolation and increasingly will see gay people openly living normal lives. So the generation growing up now will have much fewer repressing their sexuality, so less homophobes are being created, and so on till there are none. And if so then Trans will follow the same pattern.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: pompel9

No it is not logical. I also stated my mind defines me, as opposed to what I was born with. You are very much maligning what I stated and it's frankly a poor tactic to use. Everyone else here understood what I was saying, yet you're skewing my words in an attempt to demonize me.

I am not demonizing you (not sure if that is an actual word, but I hope you understand what I am saying). I am trying to understand why you see me as a deformed human being.


This is your words:

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: AlongCamePaul

A deformity at birth does not define us, our minds do.

a reply to: pompel9

You're either going a long way at being obtuse, or you really cannot comprehend the intricacies of language. Perhaps English is not your first language? My mind does not match the body I was born with, ergo a deformity has taken place. It is a deformity to be placed in the wrong body.

With yourself, if you identify as male, the body you were born with, you have no such problem.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: pompel9

You're either going a long way at being obtuse, or you really cannot comprehend the intricacies of language. Perhaps English is not your first language? My mind does not match the body I was born with, ergo a deformity has taken place. It is a deformity to be placed in the wrong body.

With yourself, if you identify as male, the body you were born with, you have no such problem.

I wouldn't say that we are deformed but rather spiritually misplaced. Everything about my body is the way it should be, physically at least anyway. Its the wiring that got crossed which is what causes us our turmoil. The body came out fine albeit not in line with the mind. It is a free country however so anyone that wants to refer to themselves as deformed is certainly welcome to do so, I just don't think it accurately describes us as well as causing others to refer to us that way. I'm sorry but I'm going to have words with anyone who tries to call me deformed.

originally posted by: Bayne

originally posted by: solarjetman

originally posted by:
JadeStar

originally posted by: Bayne
a reply to: Domo1

Humanity used to be pro-Transgender and Transgender people were part of everyday life, in some places this was less than 200 years ago and some it was even within living memory.

And I've heard still is in Thailand.

Samoa as well, although they define it altogether differently... Fa’afafines: The Third Gender

Indeed and all of Polynesia once had such traditions as part of everyday life, including Hawaii.

And here is where i'd like to hear more discussion appropriate to the site. Because Trans people have traditionally been seen as closer to the spirits or gods of the worlds belief systems. Often being Shaman or priests and priestesses. A lot of modern western civilisation included attempted extermination of Transgender people and cultural relevance despite occultism often retaining notions of sacred mixing of gender.

In the myths of the Vikings Thor Odin and Loki all became Transgender in order to practice the greater magic of Seidr. In the Babylonian Talmud Abraham the father of Judaism Christianity and Islam was said to be Intersex. The nommos of mesopotamian myth cycles that many say were ancient aliens were a mixture of male and female, Ishtar was saved from the Underworld by a being both male and female made out of starlight scraped out of the sky by Marduk's red-painted fingernails and made into a being of incomparable beauty named Asu-shu-namir that rescued Ishtar and was cursed by one goddess and blessed by another for their efforts.

So the fact we need this conversation is because of how successful attempts to eradicate trans from everyday life and it's past spiritual/religious/cultural/political position but it's failure to erase it entirely. Any understanding of civilisation and the various attempts to shape it needs to have a major Transgender element and perspective.

And as a UFO witness myself i wonder if there is any higher incidence of such experiences for Transgender people.

This is all very interesting and I remember reading such stories when I first started really researching Trans issues. I was looking for answers and validation that I was not some freak. I found it uplifting to find out that T-folk have been held in high regard by certain ancient civilizations.

I also have at times felt as though I am more spiritually awake that the average drone. Almost like I'm the only real person in the room and everyone else are robots.

For example When I go out to lunch in my neck of the woods I look around and see all the govt contractors and their Dockers and pastel polos or button ups. They all look like clones with no individual expression. Then I get funny looks as if I don't belong in such a trendy upscale place. I don't let it bother me because I know my money spends like anyone else's but I do notice. Also a disclaimer here, I don't want anyone to think my day to day appearance is outlandish. It is fairly normal but not bland I wear fitted flat brim hats, jewelry sometimes, abd I love camo which get me stereotyped as a "yo boy" but then people are shocked when I'm actually well spoken and polite.

originally posted by: Bayne
a reply to: JadeStar



If you can support other Trans people as you go, helping other Trans people get through school, enter the field behind you and have safety and support as they study and go for work, that might be the most powerful thing you could do, and you don't need to be out personally to do that. Instead even if stealth you might help 10 out people get through those glass ceilings behind you, giving 10 times the impact your personal coming out now could provide.

Thank you for saying this. I was trying to make this same point but became distracted when others started to cast me aside and chase me off. I myself am looking for ways to help young Trans people have it better than those of us that are older. For example there is a homeless shelter in my area specifically for ostracized Trans kids that I fully intend to donate at least ten grand to as soon as I have a month of good profit margin.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
I'm sorry but I'm going to have words with anyone who tries to call me deformed.

I don't like deformed either.

I use Birth Difference. It really applies to everyone, as everyone is different. Some are just more complex.

a reply to: solarjetman

One argument folks generally make for LGBT rights is to let them be, they aren't bothering you, they aren't hurting you etc.

1. THEY ARE hurting people; especially those that are opposed to it. See, here's the thing. If you want to be gay, don't FORCE people to "learn" your ways. That's YOUR thing. My child doesn't need to be "educated", regarding your homosexual fetish. My child doesn't need to learn the reason why you are the way you are. My child doesn't need to "celebrate" your cause. When you start forcing your lifestyle on my family, that's when we have problems. (i use the word "you", in general form, not personal form)

When a two-year-old tells their parents that they feel like they're trapped inside another gender's body

2. A two year old, feeling trapped in another gender's body? Did you really say that? A two year old barely knows how to speak properly, let alone know who he/she is. They no nothing about their "gender" or their private parts. A two year old knows nothing about a penis or vagina, so how would they know they're trapped inside another gender's body? They probably distinguish each other by facial features, hair styles, clothes, and even the toys a 2 year old would normally play with.

A two year old knows nothing about their "sexuality". They don't learn those things until they enter indoctrination centers, called "school", around age 5. That's when the seeds are planted. Now, give 4 years worth of constant bombardment of "gayness" and tah-dah, your "straight child" is now beginning to question his/her gender.

The problem is this: we are teaching our children the wrong message. Males have "female" in them; and females have "male" in them. Some men are more feminine and some woman are more masculine; this is TRUE! However, the parent never made their child feel comfortable in their own skin, at an early age.

i.e. My daughter is very boyish and i give her that space. HOWEVER, i DO REMIND HER, she IS a GIRL! Even when her "boy" friends tease her because she plays like them, i REMIND HER, "You are still a little girl!" I also add, "they just hating on you because you're better than them. Boys don't like that sh!t, little girl! jajajjaja"

Don't let the seeds planted in the indoctrination centers keep growing! Uproot them IMMEDIATELY, otherwise your child will be questioning their sexuality; which should never be questioned; unless you're a hermaphrodite.

Ignorance and false information about life and science is harmful to thinking children. There is misguided personal belief, then there is fact.

My mother was raised in an era of racism, she raised us not to be. Because, as she put it, racism belonged to her generation ---- not ours.

Children need to be raised for the world that will be theirs.