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Two Questions for Transgender people

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posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: AlongCamePaul
It should be a federal offense to have sex with someone and not tell them you are a trans gender. Much like it is to have sex with someone and not tell them you are HIV positive.



You afraid of catching Transgender?

Fear of HIV is a reasonable fear.

Fear of Transgender is all in your head.




posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Once you have sex with someone who has HIV your life is threatened.

Once you have sex with a transgender, their life could be threatened.

Looking at this logically, what extremes would a straight man do to regain his manhood? I hope I never find out.

Once a straight man has sex with another man unknowingly I'd hate to see the ramifications that such deception could unfold.

once again, im looking out for both parties here, I have no fear of transgenders nor is anything "all in my head" Annee.

The government couldn't trust that HIV patients would be truthful about their status thus they made it against the law to withhold information, I feel this is the same way it should be with transgenders, although no physical harm would come from the act, the emotional toll could cause harm to either party and eventually you end up with a life threatening situation.

There have been a number of transgender incidents already. The most recent I remember is a football player who was unknowingly dating a transgender. From what I remember the transgender was shot and killed and im not sure what happened with the football player.

Not only does the deception of a transgender hold an emotional candle, it can ruin someones reputation, lively hood and life, all without them knowing.

Recently the rapper Tyga who dated Kylie jenner was found to be sexting a transgender unknowingly. He is not the first artist this has happened to. Im sure you will see a direct correlation with his album sales because his reputation has been put into question. Also I believe kylie jenner's mom forbid her from contact with him after that incident.

Like I said, I'm looking at this situation objectively. If you can't own up to the fact that transgenders should at least be honest about their situations before engaging in sexual activities with the former same sex, then you are not equipped mentally to have this conversation.

Thanks Annee.
edit on 21-7-2015 by AlongCamePaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: AlongCamePaul

What you fail to understand is that transgender Woman are not Men, and never were Men. also you can't confuse Sexuality with Gender



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime

Sexuality is a metal state... The physical reality of things is they were born a certain way, and although due to science we have been able to change the physical nature of things, there still exists on a chromosomal level the truth of the situation. Therefore claiming to be anything other than what you are born is a form of deception no matter what you felt you were or what you feel you are.

I do believe I have accurately described the difference between sexuality and gender. Thanks Darth.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: AlongCamePaul

Like I said, I'm looking at this situation objectively. If you can't own up to the fact that transgenders should at least be honest about their situations before engaging in sexual activities with the former same sex, then you are not equipped mentally to have this conversation.

Thanks Annee.


I can look at it objectively.

Do you ask a sexual interest or expect them to voluntarily reveal to you prior to sex - - if they use drugs, alcohol, have/had herpes, have a police record, a history of mental illness, etc.

A Transgender is not harmful.

You seem to be trying to reverse/mirror your own hangup - - - in saying they need to do it for their own protection.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: AlongCamePaul

Sexuality Orientation is your attraction to the Same Opposite or Both Genders, but it is not your "Gender Identity" or your assigned Gender at birth.

there have been studies of Brain scans that show Transgender Woman have brain scans that resemble a Woman's Brain scan, and the same with transgender Men



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Annee if I understand your question correctly, you are asking me if I believe someone should disclose certain information about themselves before sexual intercourse. My personal answer is yes, because I personally do not have and have not have sex with people I have not known or gotten to know. I personally don't believe in the act of random sex.

Now, in a general sense, I believe that one should disclose any and all information pertaining to the act itself, whether that is a medical condition such as an STD, or a physical condition such as a gender reassignment.

I doubt police records and or the use of drugs and alcohol would change things between the two performing the act, but the more information the better. Just because I would not change my mind about having sex with someone because they had a record and ingested alcohol does not mean someone else would feel the same In the principality of things of course.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AlongCamePaul

Sexuality Orientation is your attraction to the Same Opposite or Both Genders, but it is not your "Gender Identity" or your assigned Gender at birth.

there have been studies of Brain scans that show Transgender Woman have brain scans that resemble a Woman's Brain scan, and the same with transgender Men


Sexuality is the subjugate of gender Identity. This I have always felt the LBGT community has had backwards. Your gender is determined by your genitals. Your sexuality determines your gender Identity.

If you are born male and feel you are a female. then you identify with the gay community until such time you decide to become transgender.

You have gender first, then you have sexuality. Which creates your gender identity.

This is interesting to me, and I for one would like a link or two of said brain study.
To my knowledge brain activity is usually very similar between all sex's because most healthy brains all activate the same synapse in the same areas of the brain.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: AlongCamePaul


If you are born male and feel you are a female. then you identify with the gay community until such time you decide to become transgender.


That is wrong, again Sexuality and Gender are different, a Transgender Woman doesn't mean she is Gay until she Transitions, if she was she would be a Lesbian and attracted to Women, you don't "Identify With the Gay Community" until after you transition that is misinformation

Sexuality does not determine your Gender Identity



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: Annee




Do you ask a sexual interest or expect them to voluntarily reveal to you prior to sex - - if they use drugs, alcohol, have/had herpes, have a police record, a history of mental illness, etc.


I see this differently. In our culture (right or wrong) a person who goes out to a bar, and takes someone home assumes that the sex the other is presenting as (if passable) is their birth sex. To go along with it and not mention anything is deceptive in my opinion. I don't believe that a transgender person is the same as a cisgender person (because they're not). I would not want to sleep with someone that had a vagina made from a penis. Transgender people insist that there is no difference, but that's simply not the case. If you were born with the mind of a woman, and a penis, that's clearly different than someone who was born with the mind of a woman and female parts. I don't find that disgusting, or bad, I'm just personally not into it, and I don't think everyone should be shamed into accepting it under the (incorrect) argument that a transwoman is the same as a woman. They may have the same gender mentally, but that doesn't change the fact that they were born with the wrong bits.

If I picked a girl up at a bar that was transgender, I wouldn't realize it or even think to ask (before now). People who have a problem with drug users are going to ask. Most people aren't even going to realize they should have to voice a concern about sleeping with someone who is transgendered, and as we've seen in this thread it sounds like some would just lie and get their kicks anyway. Transgender people are just starting to come into the spotlight a tiny bit, but I think everyone will agree that the majority don't know much about them. Quite a few people still think a drag queen and a transgender individual are the same thing.

It's like taking an American, plopping them in some Amazon tribe (and no, this isn't a dig on trans people, just an example of a very different culture) and expecting them to immediately understand all the subtleties of the new culture. There are a lot of people that would be horrified to sleep with a trans person, and a lot of people that don't think such a thing is even possible because it's a relatively new phenomena in our culture to have people that are still passable even when unclothed.

The transgender person is aware of all this, so the duty is on the transgender person to inform. Like it or not, they are a tiny and very misunderstood minority. They are aware not many people will think to ask, they are aware many people would have any number of problems sleeping with them, be they moral, religious, or preference based.



A Transgender is not harmful.


I agree to a certain extent. I do realize though that sleeping with a transgender person could be mentally devastating to a large number of people. There are a lot of things out there that wouldn't be harmful, but I just don't want to do.

The transgender person in out scenario is not the only person with feelings. The other party has them too. Both are valid, both are important to the individual, and both should be considered. I realize the transgender person is in a very crappy situation, but if they have any respect for other people they will inform a potential sex partner.



You seem to be trying to reverse/mirror your own hangup - - - in saying they need to do it for their own protection.


I agree, the transgender person shouldn't inform because they fear violence. That's a bad argument. They should inform because they are a human being, doing something intimate with another human being, and should have enough empathy to realize the other person may not want to engage sexually if they knew the whole story.

I disagree that this is a hangup. Is it a sexual hangup that I don't want to sleep with men? Is it wrong that I'm very rarely attracted to women that are overweight? You could make the counterargument that if I'm attracted enough to hop in bed, that's all that should matter, but it's not. If I was informed the person was transgender I would lose my amorous intentions very quickly. Most things are pretty easy to spot. I can tell if a woman is overweight, or if someone isn't my type. With an actual passable transgender person, I can't. So now that I personally know to ask, it's on me. The problem is all the people out there that don't know to ask or deal with the consequences. People are aware that if they have unprotected sex, they may catch something. People are not aware that if they bring home a girl it might be someone who is transgendered, which is why the transgender person has the duty to inform.

If a transgender person is uncomfortable explaining their backstory with someone, perhaps they should cease their promiscuity and save the sex for people they get to know and feel comfortable telling. That seems far more reasonable than saying screw everyone else, I'm a special snowflake and only my feelings count when I want to get some.

I feel for transgender people, I really do. No one would choose to go through the incredible amount of crap they have to endure to be themselves. I get that once a transition is complete it's hard to bring up the past, because it was painful. You need to, otherwise you are completely discounting other people's feelings and sexuality.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime
I never said sexuality and gender were the same in fact I think I described the two pretty accurately.

And this is where we differ in opinions. And in my opinion you still have it backwards.

I can break it down even further so at least if we don't agree you can understand my side accurately.

We can both agree that Gender Identity can be broken down into 5 categories right.

Straight, Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, Transgender.

To me honestly there are only two categories, hetero, and homo. but for the sake of argument and to be politically correct lets say 5 categories.

When you are born, because you lack the outward expression of sexuality your gender identity is determined by your gender or chromosomes.

Because of this conjecture you cannot be born gay only what you are.

Later in life, because of your outward expression of sexuality, can your gender identity be altered. (This makes sense right?) Because you cannot express you are LBGT until you start to show the characteristics at any given age.

Therefore the outward expression of sexuality will eventually determine in what category you identify with.

You cannot be put into a category without a gender. Without a gender there is no sexuality, there is no gender identity.

Does this make sense to you all?


Edit: To add to Domo1 And Anne

I will agree Transgenders are harmless as are most gays and straights, however the level of deception that comes with is not harmless at all. And i'm not trying to use deception in a bad way here, just in its proper definition.

If I see a beautiful transgender and I am a heterosexual male, I am acting under the assumption that this transgender is a woman, because as a transgender male you are acting under the guise as a woman. Therefore the transgender community has to have a higher sense of morality than most.

Deception is morally wrong. right? I also understand the fact that transgenders feel as if they were always what they are, but the fact is you cannot be what you were by changing. By changing you become something else. Only by accepting what you were can you define yourself properly.

Deception begets punishment.
If I lied to my mother I'd probably get popped in the mouth, Others might get punished in some form.

If I lied to a partner about my gender identity whether pre, post, in between, unsure, I'd be opening up myself to the same punishment, only this is not from someone as loving as a mother, it is from someone who despised you because you deceived them.

I truly wish that you could pick what you wanted to be born as. but this is not the case, and we all have to own up to what we are.



edit on 21-7-2015 by AlongCamePaul because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-7-2015 by AlongCamePaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: AlongCamePaul

No, because "Straight, Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay" are not Genders



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime

Those are all forms of gender Identities. Darth... we both know that. Infact I clearly stated that they are the 5 categories of Gender Identity.
edit on 21-7-2015 by AlongCamePaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AlongCamePaul


If you are born male and feel you are a female. then you identify with the gay community until such time you decide to become transgender.


That is wrong, again Sexuality and Gender are different, a Transgender Woman doesn't mean she is Gay until she Transitions, if she was she would be a Lesbian and attracted to Women, you don't "Identify With the Gay Community" until after you transition that is misinformation

Sexuality does not determine your Gender Identity


To add here, if a transgender woman becomes a man and is attracted to women she is still gay although his outward appearance would suggest that he is straight, though he identifies with the trans community.

if a transgender woman becomes a man and is attracted to men, he would be straight but his outward appearance would suggest that he is gay. and he would Identify with the trans community.

it gets tricky but it is all understandable.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: AlongCamePaul

No they are not. Straight, Gay, Bisexual are Sexual Orientations NOT Gender Identities



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: AlongCamePaul

That's not true. have you done any research on this?

a Transgender Woman who is attracted to Males is a Straight woman, a transgender Woman who is attracted to Females is Lesbian

a Transgender Male who is attracted to females is Straight, a Transgender Male who is attracted to Males is Gay

i seriously don't think you quite understand?



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime
Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity.

Gender identity - is one's personal experience of one's own gender

Sexual orientation - a person's sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

We can hide behind definitions which all use each others definitions in their defining clauses, or we can agree to disagree.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AlongCamePaul

That's not true. have you done any research on this?

a Transgender Woman who is attracted to Males is a Straight woman, a transgender Woman who is attracted to Females is Lesbian

a Transgender Male who is attracted to females is Straight, a Transgender Male who is attracted to Males is Gay

i seriously don't think you quite understand?


To me it is the other way around...

because the order is backwards,

you have Sex, Gender, sexual orientation in that order.

the way you have described it is Gender, sexual orientation, sex.

which is backward in my defining process.



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: AlongCamePaul

You are saying that Straight Gay and Bisexual are Genders, and that is not true. agree to disagree all you want



posted on Jul, 21 2015 @ 04:29 PM
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originally posted by: AlongCamePaul
It should be a federal offense to have sex with someone and not tell them you are a trans gender. Much like it is to have sex with someone and not tell them you are HIV positive.


Are you actually serious? That is one of the worst comparisons in this thread I've seen, and there's been some real doozies.


It is a moral issue which should be corrected by the government.

I have no quarrel with the LGBT community.


No, clearly you do.


I Believe people should do what makes them happy. However when what makes you happy could in some way lead to anothes detriment then there needs to be a check and balance to ensure the general security of people.

I actually thought of an interesting Idea where during a trans gender operation they get a manditory tattoo near their genitals to let people know "hey I had an operation".


What. The. #.

To hell with your gender fascist world. This is the "scarlet T" argument all over again. You know what? Two can play this game.

Rather than branding people like me, what if we brand people like you? Put a nice scarlet B on your foreheads, so we know to avoid you completely. There'll be tests determining whether a person is racist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic, and every other bigotry you can think of. Then, when it's determined that you are, the government stamps a big B on your skull and the rest of us will know to steer clear of you.


I for one agree with the OP, and I've seen pictures online of women online and saying thats a gorgeous woman, only to find out they were gender reassigned years ago. It is a scary thing to be a heterosexual man attracted to someone who has the same chromosomes as you.


It's a scary thing knowing there are still plenty of people like you out there. And you wonder why we want to stealth.
edit on 7/21/2015 by Kojiro because: (no reason given)



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