Two Questions for Transgender people

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: JadeStar

What is so ridiculous about the following statement?

Having sex with someone knowing that you are not revealing something that could adversely effect the other person is wrong, period.

I know it's a long post and perhaps you didn't read it but if you could, I would appreciate your opinion on my breast implant example. It's 4th paragraph so you don't have to read the whole thing.

Also, I see you've changed from "serious psychological effects" to "adverse effects" but you still didn't give any examples. Other than yuck factor and couple of days thinking about it, I honestly don't see what "serious psychological effects" there could be, unless they were preexisting.

a reply to: EKron

And you should have that right, no one should be "Shamed" into being an activist or "Out" to the world if they don't want to, it's your life... just like no one should be shamed for being "Out" and open and an activist. in the instance of this conversation, if someone is openly refereed to as a Transgender Woman or Man they shouldn't be treated less than a Woman or Man

a reply to: Domo1

Hey, don't knock it 'till you tried it

a reply to: Crazy Diamond

If i may add my thoughts.

some people still have a harder time on the separation between gender and Sexuality. some Men see transgender Woman and think they would be 'Gay' to be sexually attracted to them, but Sexuality and Gender are different, she would still be a Woman and they would keep their straightness

in reference to your plastic Surgery, it's still a ""Female"" body part, so if they find out it's fake or not,in their mind they retain their "Straightness"

One more small nit to pick before I step away for lunch and to get some work stuff done..

The title of the thread: "Two questions for transgenders". Transgender/transsexual is not a noun. It is an adjective.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: JadeStar


You are aware that the majority of society still views you as being the sex you were born with , regardless how awesome the surgery came out or the science behind it.

Only if I disclosed this.

No one knows otherwise. And that's what your problem is. That no one, not even you would know.

Whether you like it or not and regardless of whether it is right or wrong the fact is, that their are plenty of people out their that would have a difficult time coping with such circumstances.

Less and less each day hopefully.

Yet, from what I'm seeing here, the transgender community could care less about hurting others and are only concerned with their feelings and emotions.

You must have missed the part where I said, I have always disclosed before so much as a kiss or the part where Bayne said 90% of those who are trans disclose that in your scenario before anything would happen.

What we are discussing is whether that expectation that we should disclose is at all FAIR to US. There are two people involved here.

True story: There was this young woman not unlike me, who fully transitioned early, in her teens like me, who was raised a girl like me, who dated this guy for a couple of weeks before things became more serious.

She had debated when to tell him and she decided that she would before they had sex.

So she did.

He mentally devastated her. He called her every name imaginable, told her she was disgusting and a freak.

She went home crying.

Her parents, who had been on vacation came home to find her hanging in their closet because she thought that despite everything she went through she would NEVER be normal, have a normal life or anything resembling what you and others take for granted. That's what the note she left said.

She's dead. She hung herself. Because she didn't want to be a perpetual "freak"

THINK about THAT.

Her life doesn't matter as much as the poor hypothetical guy in your scenario right?

Her date? He immediately started dating some other girl he was seeing on the side while dating the dead girl, and this girl wasn't trans so everything was just fine until he dumped her two weeks later.

This guy would date girls until he could have sex with them and then he would dump them for another. That's just how he was.

Had the trans girl not disclosed, she'd probably have been dumped by him but she wouldn't have been made to feel like she was a freak, worthless and had no hope of any sort of normal life.

In other words. She'd still be ALIVE.

The guy basically was a jerk. It would have been nice if both girls knew that before getting involved with him. But he shouldn't be expected to preemptively disclose that he's a jerk who couldn't seem to keep any sort of relationship going more than a few weeks once he had sex, right?

He shouldn't have to disclose that at all in your world. Only the dead girl does. The jerk's actions don't matter. Only the girl's does. Right?

And if you don't see how THAT'S a problem, or discriminatory then god help you.

BTW: Here is her photo from a happier time two weeks prior to her death:


#TransLivesMatter

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Crazy Diamond

If i may add my thoughts.

some people still have a harder time on the separation between gender and Sexuality. some Men see transgender Woman and think they would be 'Gay' to be sexually attracted to them, but Sexuality and Gender are different, she would still be a Woman and they would keep their straightness

in reference to your plastic Surgery, it's still a ""Female"" body part, so if they find out it's fake or not,in their mind they retain their "Straightness"

Of course, all thoughts are welcomed

But my question is if they found out after having sexual intercourse, how can that fact cause "serious psychological effects"? I mean they were clearly completely "fooled" to have sex with that person in the first place, meaning up to that point she was a woman through and through.

a reply to: JadeStar

Oh no, that's a horrible story. My condolences to her friends and family, no matter how late-coming they may be.

I hate hearing stuff like this.

a reply to: Crazy Diamond

Yeah, until they hear "Transgender" and their fear to be "Gay" or the thought of it overrides reality because they can't separate Sexuality and Gender...

That either comes from a lack of understanding about transgender people,or just pure ignorance

*Disclaimer*

I'm not talking about every Straight Male in the world, i'm also not calling anyone 'Transphobic' or 'Bigot'

originally posted by: Crazy Diamond

But my question is if they found out after having sexual intercourse, how can that fact cause "serious psychological effects"? I mean they were clearly completely "fooled" to have sex with that person in the first place, meaning up to that point she was a woman through and through.

I personally consider that your own "head" issue. Obviously, you're talking casual sex -- for the sake of having sex. Chalk it up to another interesting event in your life.

Fooled? You were fooled about being a willing partner in having sex?

She IS a woman. It's not up to a certain point.

I personally as a hetero woman keep my sex life separate from anything else. I don't mix it with my work, personal life, or friends. I've had some interesting experiences. They're mine. I don't share them. It's no one else's business.

Relationship? That's something else.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Bayne

Should the Trans/Intersex people disclose? Well most Intersex people do not know they are Intersex!

How is this relevant. If the intersex person isn't aware , how could they be held accountable. The transgender is aware of both the truth and the POTENTIAL impact to others.

So would it be ok if for example my parents had me fixed when I was 2 years old and they not tell me?

Or if somehow I had amnesia?

Then would you allow me to have a normal sex life?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Bayne

I understand the things you have said, but they do not really answer my question. You see, my preference, amongst any others I might have, is for someone who has always been certain of themselves, has never had need to question their own gender, or for that matter, anyone else's, and the reason for that is nothing to do with sexuality, and rather more to do with psychology.

I never questioned my gender. I was always certain of who I was. Just look at the thread my mom and dad posted in. Would I qualify?

originally posted by: Bayne
a reply to: TrueBrit

But many Transgender people ARE steadfast in their gender identity since they could talk. That their body needed fixing has no bearing on the certainty of their minds. If anything you may find greater certainty in many Transgender people than in Cisgender ones when it comes to their gender identity.

*raises hand*

originally posted by: Bayne
a reply to: TrueBrit

While some Transgender people do come to self-acceptance in later years a great number of late-transitioners always knew they were Trans and just hid that fact for years to avoid physical harm or discrimination, and as prejudice has been declining over the decades an increasing number are transitioning before puberty who always knew their gender identity. So by excluding Trans people you are quite likely missing out on some of the people with quite strong determination and sense of self awareness rather than being without it as you assume.

Exactly.

originally posted by: Bayne
a reply to: TrueBrit

Sure that's a fair question.

Defining transphobe, like homophobe, is difficult as without having a 100% unbiased culture (left) to have a comparison it's really hard to know what things may have their roots in unconscious prejudice.
There may be ways to sort it out though.

If you would be ok with a cisgender woman who was infertile, but not a transsexual woman who has had the full genital surgery (Many gynecologists cannot tell!) then where is the difference that matters to you there? That might be a sign of a problem.

BINGO! x10000 ^^^ THIS.

btw Bayne: My GYN couldn't tell either.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Crazy Diamond

But my question is if they found out after having sexual intercourse, how can that fact cause "serious psychological effects"? I mean they were clearly completely "fooled" to have sex with that person in the first place, meaning up to that point she was a woman through and through.

I personally consider that your own "head" issue. Obviously, you're talking casual sex -- for the sake of having sex. Chalk it up to another interesting event in your life.

Fooled? You were fooled about being a willing partner in having sex?


She IS a woman. It's not up to a certain point.

I personally as a hetero woman keep my sex life separate from anything else. I don't mix it with my work, personal life, or friends. I've had some interesting experiences. They're mine. I don't share them. It's no one else's business.

Relationship? That's something else.

I am sorry but you completely, like 180 degrees, misunderstood what I was trying to say. Probably my fault, English is not my native language. Please read this post, everything will be clear. I purposefully put fooled in quotes.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
Here is a potentially controversial article. i'm sharing it for conversation

www.transadvocate.com...

What if someone is stealth offline but somewhat out, online? Doesn't my being stealth within society while advocating for fairness in these issue online help?

I feel like that article is telling me that I am doing the world a disservice by blending in and just getting on with life now that my transition is years in the past.

a reply to: JadeStar

Blaming this girl's death solely on a guy being mean to her is disingenuous. Mentally healthy people move on and don't kill themselves if someone is an asshole to them. Her need to be accepted by everyone as a woman, and not a transwoman, perpetuated by people that don't see the very clear difference is what killed her. That is incredibly sad.

a reply to: Domo1

That is the most cold-hearted thing I have ever seen anyone say.

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
Here is a potentially controversial article. i'm sharing it for conversation

www.transadvocate.com...

Thanks, Darth.

Okay, I'll discuss as one of those people that is not out (except here) or "stealth" not helping the "community". I see both sides of the coin but unless you have some high profile position where it might matter, screw the community. I have no obligation to be out and will openly admit my desire to maintain "pseudo cis privilege" in the real world. I've posted volumes on my life and psyche here to promote some awareness and understanding but have no intention of waving any flags in the physical sphere or of being anyone's role model.

I will also openly admit my desire to maintain "psuedo cis privilege" in the real world. We can't all be trans-activists. And I feel that people like you and people like me, who live unnoticed among the rest of society have a role to play, which while more subtle, is just as important to the world becoming more accepting of those of us born this way.

originally posted by: Crazy Diamond

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Crazy Diamond

But my question is if they found out after having sexual intercourse, how can that fact cause "serious psychological effects"? I mean they were clearly completely "fooled" to have sex with that person in the first place, meaning up to that point she was a woman through and through.

I personally consider that your own "head" issue. Obviously, you're talking casual sex -- for the sake of having sex. Chalk it up to another interesting event in your life.

Fooled? You were fooled about being a willing partner in having sex?


She IS a woman. It's not up to a certain point.

I personally as a hetero woman keep my sex life separate from anything else. I don't mix it with my work, personal life, or friends. I've had some interesting experiences. They're mine. I don't share them. It's no one else's business.

Relationship? That's something else.

I am sorry but you completely, like 180 degrees, misunderstood what I was trying to say. Probably my fault, English is not my native language. Please read this post, everything will be clear. I purposefully put fooled in quotes.

First, thank you for saying English is not your native language. I always appreciate people who do that.

Understand my post is not really directed at you. It's just my thinking on the subject.

originally posted by: BendingTheTruth
a reply to: EKron

I don't know about SolarJetMan, but I am an old/young 56 year old man, who has been married for over 35 years, and I would date JadeStar in a heartbeat. She is simply a beautiful woman on the outside, and based on her posts, a seemingly beautiful woman on the inside. And guess what, that's the part that counts!!

Awww thank you!!! You just made my day. As you and I are both taken I can say that having read some of your posts I'd accept your date proposal, though you would be 36 years older than me but that's a whole other thread lol.