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Knowledge is power?

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posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
I will stop posting on this issue and try and find some like-minded people on the site if any lol. I would like to get talking to some american freemasons if possible to find out how the work in the lodge is carried out.

Why look here?
There are several masonic forums around for you to visit.
As a non-Mason, I know of at least two. Surely, you would know more.




posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller
I'm a UK mason and sorry, but I don't believe you at all either.
Why would you offer to scan ritual to prove yourself?


Getting back to the subject. Just because the Catholic Church may have problems with Masonry, and even if they are unfounded problems, a mason is aware that all religions are to be respected and that denigrating them only brings you down to the level where you are open to justified critisism yourself. Of course, we are only human as well, and it's very hard to resist sometimes, but open hostility is not Freemasonry.
And "The Brotherhood"? As a UK mason I have come up against this book time and time again. It is filled with false information and innuendo and is never used by masons as a book of truth with which to prove an argument.



posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 10:35 AM
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hi leveller, if you can read i offered to scan my diplomas not the rituals, i am currently sword bearer in my lodge old monkland st james numbering 177 on the roll of the grand lodge of scotland, i like going to my meetings but i dont buy all this brotherly love nonsense sometimes, as not everyone will extend there hand to a fellow creature in want never mind a freemason!



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
what are u saying masonic light that there are orangemen in the vatican? me being a mason also take it as gospel that there are masonic orders in the vatican have you read the brotherhood, also how many degrees does the pope take answer 33 check your worldwide web m8 and open your all seeing eye


Davie,

You sure do rely on info from the Worldwide Web, don't you? Apparently though, you only utilize the sites with info that fits your needs....or do you believe everything you read?

The Pope's a 33rd Degree Mason??? Wow! That' must be news to the Pope. As far as "The Brotherhood" that silly work of fiction is about as reliable as "The Hiram Key" or "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"

Regards



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
sorry masonic light i just cant understand why you defend these people when there sole aim is to destroy us. The muslim people refer to non muslims as the infidel, and the catholics refer to us as heretics and take oathes of slaying us, btw if you think im lying when the pope dies watch what sign the conclave makes when the are entering him down just before the smoke comes out the chimney fidelity fidelity fidelity


Question for you Davie ol' boy.

I have quite a few very close Catholic friends. We've been alone on numerous occasions...I've even been a guest in their homes. Why haven't they killed me yet? One of them is not only a 4th Degree Knight of Columbus, he's the District Deputy Grand Knight in his District here in Missouri (that's in the USA, btw) Just curious why after all these years none of my Catholic friends have slain me.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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axeman u fool, could they carry out the penalties of their oaths in the modern day, my next door neighbour is in the aoh im in an orange band we have no axe to grind. My uncle is in the knights, im in the orange order, aprentice boys of derry and freemasons we have no axe to grind as well what are u trying to say when confronted with the facts dont turn and run away FACE THEM



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
axeman u fool,


Another one of those will get you warned. Read the T&C, they even have punctuation.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
axeman u fool, could they carry out the penalties of their oaths in the modern day, my next door neighbour is in the aoh im in an orange band we have no axe to grind. My uncle is in the knights, im in the orange order, aprentice boys of derry and freemasons we have no axe to grind as well what are u trying to say when confronted with the facts dont turn and run away FACE THEM


You addressed Axeman, but I think it was meant for me, Senrak (by the way, that's "Karnes" spelled backwards. I'm John Karnes, Past Master of my Lodge in Missouri in 1999) When I became a Mason some 15 years ago I was confronted by a member who told me about the Knights of Columbus Oath. There was no internet in those days so I had to rely on actual books and other info. The first thing I did was confront my good friend (whom I mentioned earlier...the 4th Degree Knight of Columbus) He'd heard of it as well and got more information on it. Finally I was satisfied that it's fake. Since then, it's come up several times.

In many of your post posts you've provided links to web-sites to back up what you say, and I've pointed out that you apparently believe whatever's on the web, so.....here ya' go. Irrefutable proof that the Oath is bogus!

Enjoy!

www.geocities.com...

Regards,



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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INTREPID WHY AM I GETTING WARNED? BY BACKING UP MY RGUMENT WITH LINKS IS THIS NOT WHY OUR FOREFATHERS DIED FREEDOM OF SPEACH? ON THE NEW ADDITIONS PAGE I WAS TOLD TO SPEAK MY MIND BUT IF IM NOT ALLOWED LET ME KNOW ASAP. Providing facts being told they are false who are they to say they are false?



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
INTREPID WHY AM I GETTING WARNED? BY BACKING UP MY RGUMENT WITH LINKS IS THIS NOT WHY OUR FOREFATHERS DIED FREEDOM OF SPEACH? ON THE NEW ADDITIONS PAGE I WAS TOLD TO SPEAK MY MIND BUT IF IM NOT ALLOWED LET ME KNOW ASAP. Providing facts being told they are false who are they to say they are false?


I'm really glad you found the "caps lock" button.
Have you been warned? No. I said you WOULD be warned for this:


Originally posted by orangeman dave
axeman u fool,


That's not backing up an arguement, that's inviting one and it's insulting.

IS THAT CLEAR?



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:51 PM
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point taken intrepid. But its ok for someone to call me gullible? Dispell my links and use links of there own I find this insulting if they only have links the same as me even when i have first hand info, relations, friends and goverment documents?



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
point taken intrepid. But its ok for someone to call me gullible? Dispell my links and use links of there own I find this insulting if they only have links the same as me even when i have first hand info, relations, friends and goverment documents?


Just a minute Orangelad! I did call you "gullible" and I stand by it. I don't mean it as insulting (take it as you like, however) but you're utilizing web-info to back up your belief that the RCC is evil and administers a violent oath upon it's members. If you believe everything you read (or everything you hear for that matter), then you ARE gullible. Again, no insult meant...just an observation.

You say you have "first hand ifo, relations, friends and government documents" Well...I've stated that *I* have first hand info (viz. copies of the actual rituals of the organizations) and friends who are members. I don't claim to have any government documents though. Is your government actually interested in this? Seems like they'd have much better things to do.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
point taken intrepid. But its ok for someone to call me gullible? Dispell my links and use links of there own I find this insulting if they only have links the same as me even when i have first hand info, relations, friends and goverment documents?


I have NO idea why you are arguing with your "brothers" in the first place. As a Mason you have a bond with other Masons. But what I'm seeing here is Masons defending other philosophies because one of their own, yeah, right, is denying the basic concept, TRUTH.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 06:01 PM
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and you my friend are just as gullible believing there propaganda, nearly every order rc has a penalty with jews,masons and protestants in it i have backed this up with the knights oath, hibernian oath,jesuit oath but you seem to believe everything u read! Can all these oaths be so far off the mark or are u trying to defend the indefensible! Wake up and smell the coffee!



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
and you my friend are just as gullible believing there propaganda, nearly every order rc has a penalty with jews,masons and protestants in it i have backed this up with the knights oath, hibernian oath,jesuit oath but you seem to believe everything u read! Can all these oaths be so far off the mark or are u trying to defend the indefensible! Wake up and smell the coffee!


No, you've backed it up with what you CLAIM is a Knights Oath, etc. etc.

Certainly all these (so-called) oaths can be so far off the mark. Plain and simple, they're frauds.....and I've got better things to do than this



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 06:13 PM
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well, Adam and Eve is a relatively bizarre parable.

There are two trees; one of knowledge and one of Immortality. The serpent, ( an interesting story on its own) "seduces" eve to eat from the tree of knowledge. this gives the story an edge of sexual tension, adding layers to what we are supposed to understand. Knowledge is given a dangerous and evil air about it. But is it valid through the rest of the teachings of the Bible?

God creates the heavens and the firmaments to mark the seasons, and for signs. God sets knowledge in the stars themselves
(Psalm 19:1-3).
So, if God sets knowledge in the stars themselves, how can knowledge itself be worthy of condemnation.

When God confronts Job, what are some of the questions he asks of Job; can you loosen the bonds of the stars?, can you Guide acrturus? Do you know the principles of the Heavens? ( arcturus is a navigational star)

. Some Bibles will Not translate a word that appears in the Book of Job, in older translations; "Mazzaroth"
Mazzaroth translates literally into the "12 signs on the Zodiac"

God tells Job, in no uncertain terms, that the stars contain Knowledge, and have influence upon the earth. So, we have more evidence that Knowlege has been incorporated in the very stars themselves.



What does the Church fear? you will learn what? knowledge outside their control....outside their influence? the stars are far beyond the reach of the Church...unless you kill astronomers and astrologers...but the Church never does that, do they.......
The church went nuts when they saw what the Mayans were capable of, their astronomy was far in advanced of Europe. Took several months, but the greatest works of the Mayan astronomers was burned, destroyed, and mayan scientists killed. Until the invention of the atomic clock in the early 1950's, the Mayan calendar was the worlds most accurate. They had unlocked knowledge in the stars. And the church responded.


God does not want you to be ignorant, and has laid out secrets of the Universe in the very stars themselves. Knowledge is a tool, nothing more. How you use this knowledge, is guided by the rest of the Bible.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 06:24 PM
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intrepid im not arguing with a fellow brother, i was always taught to stand for truth, justice and morality in other orders and will not retreat in telling a brother he is wrong, if i did that would mean the masons have brainwashed me and taken away my freedom of speach, why are u getting on to me? why have you taken his side? by putting TRUTH IN CAPITALS do u think me being a mason would not tell the truth?



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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I am totally impartial. I am not a Mason, KOC, debunker. Basically an observer and I see what I do. You asked? You are NO Mason. Do yourself a favor, either come clean and apologize or leave. Apologies will be accepted, I believe this, or you WILL be debunked.



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 06:36 PM
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intrepid i am a master mason, of lodge 177 coltswood st james 177 on the roll of the grand lodge of scotland, What am i to apologise for? if im going to get debunked for speking my mind let me know



posted on Jan, 1 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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I tried.

*gives self a "one line warn"*


[edit on 1-1-2005 by intrepid]



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