The Ban On Transgender Individuals In The Military May Soon Be Lifted

It was actually nice to hear this news. The military has always been an institution that seemed starkly afraid of these issues. Once it starts fixing its regulations for full inclusion, you know that social progress is really, truly taking place in this country.

It kinda gets me right here, in the heart.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess Its just that I kind of run into this even within my own community their is a certain degree of separation of those that have had the surgery versus those that have not.

In my experience I have never heard someone post-op say directly that they are somehow better but some of the language used by some does seem to come off as condescending or exclusive not that I really care. I guess I'm just frustrated because it seems like you have to have the surgery to be taken seriously as a woman and without it your just some abomination.

Do you not see why the military isn't taking people "in the middle"? Is that so hard to understand?

This degree of separation or exclusivity you spoke of is nothing personal but face it, there are some pretty key differences that are difficult to ignore. That aside and only speaking personally and not for anyone else, although I can totally relate to and have been there at some point 40+ years ago, I am not part of your community. This does not make me better than you are in any ways but it does make me different. I don't mean to be brutal or cruel but do see how you could take it that way - identifying as a woman is not quite the same as being female. I can greatly empathize with you and the difficulties and challenges in your life but they are not ones that I share so if you've felt some level of separatism from me, it is somewhat unavoidable but not intended negatively. We aren't the same but that in no way makes me better or superior to you.

But yeah, the usage of SRS as some sort of confirmation of gender is pretty tiresome, I agree with you there.

SRS is not some magic confirmation or badge of gender. One of the things it does do though is take you out of the middle and into the conventional binary male/female paradigm in all aspects at all times and in all environments. Once you have crossed this threshold, life is different and should you ultimately go this route and probably not until then standing naked in front of a mirror, will you have more understanding of what SRS really is and does. It's not a confirmation of gender, it is an internal affirmation that the sex of your body is now is in complete and total congruity with your gender and you become whole and at peace with yourself. It also just happenstance that in the communal shower, others can make this confirmation as well. This is something that will make you better to yourself if you're really meant to go there but it doesn't make you better than anyone else. I don't have the talents or elocutionary elegance necessary to put this into words but it is a lot more than you might think it is so I'll leave it at that.

It is not my intent but if I continue to speak up on these matters as I've only recently started doing, I'm liable to alienate every other transgender or transsexual** person on this board and that's not my intent or to come across exclusionary or somehow more special so I'm likely to fade back into the woodwork so I don't offend anyone or diminish their experience and leave these discussions to others that have more stake in this.

**Separatist? Maybe a little. Old fashioned and not perfectly PC? Probably.

a reply to: EKron

I didn't even realize we were referring to you, hah!

In any case, you should never feel obligated to stand as a paragon for TG folks. It's not your responsibility and I'm sure you've paid your dues back in the day. 40 years from now, I hope I can say the same.

An important thing I've learned about dysphoria is that my experience is not universal. Some people experience it as a social aspect and simply need to live as the correct gender and, for others (like me), it's more of an anatomical issue and SRS is a priority and socializing as a woman is lower on my needs list. I definitely don't think it applies universally like I used to.

EKron, your experience in this is invaluable for the community and I think part of the value is seeing a woman who's left it all in the past. It's encouraging. So please don't ever feel bad for your distancing.

originally posted by: Cuervo
I didn't even realize we were referring to you, hah!

I have had that finger pointed at me and do see in some respects it could be valid criticism. Since there's only one other of us here, you know, the young and pretty one, I figure I'm at least 50% part of making people feel we're exclusionary separatists. Since she exceeds me in diplomacy and tact, maybe it's more of 70/30 split?

An important thing I've learned about dysphoria is that my experience is not universal. Some people experience it as a social aspect and simply need to live as the correct gender and, for others (like me), it's more of an anatomical issue and SRS is a priority and socializing as a woman is lower on my needs list. I definitely don't think it applies universally like I used to.

Yeah see, your experience in these things is much more different from mine. It's been at least 20 years and probably longer than that since I've known or spoken to anyone transanything and I've not paid attention or had much interest in keeping up with the topic. I've learned a lot in the last month or so but am still hung up a bit on some of the language and political correctness.

EKron, your experience in this is invaluable for the community and I think part of the value is seeing a woman who's left it all in the past. It's encouraging. So please don't ever feel bad for your distancing.

Thank you, Cuervo. That was kind of you to say.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Is one problem with this, a person that is going through sex change can not sing in in the military while in transition and I don't see this particular cases been allowed in the military for now.

You either a male or female when signing in, is not such thing as in between, I guess they will allow already people that has their sex change and gender to join but no when the change is on going.

Why? You act like it is so hard to change a few tick marks on a form... Trust me if there is one thing the military loves, its paperwork. I'm sure they'll be able to produce the appropriate forms to make this work.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
See this is exactly the kind of mentality that worries me. It seems like people can accept and tolerate those that have went the distance and had the surgery more than they can the "in the middle" people. I don't mean you personally so don't take this the wrong way. Its just that I kind of run into this even within my own community their is a certain degree of separation of those that have had the surgery versus those that have not.

In my experience I have never heard someone post-op say directly that they are somehow better but some of the language used by some does seem to come off as condescending or exclusive not that I really care. I guess I'm just frustrated because it seems like you have to have the surgery to be taken seriously as a woman and without it your just some abomination. I don't plan on having the surgery because of the A. the cost, B. the post surgery maintenance required, C. any major surgery has risks of complication. So I guess I'll never be considered a true woman despite how pretty and sweet I am. Oh well I guess, I'm comfortable with who I am and don't need one label or another to feel validated.

a reply to: marg6043

Fascinating. So there is bigotry within the all accepting GLBTQ community?

Oh hunny, were more the same than you will admit. We were after all born with the same equipment and general mindset. One of us just went to further extremes to satisfy their individual gender perception. No matter what or who says otherwise I will always have a problem when one sub group of the TG community is given inclusive treatment over the other. You can say "oh well I didn't mean it that way or no offense" buuuuuut I'm still going to be offended by certain things. I also get the point your trying to make about the physical differences but again that does not mean that the sentiment does not bother me.

The reality of the situation is that if males and females showered in shared space in large groups their wouldn't be any issues other than mental ones that any given individual has about the situation. Bascially its all in your head because if you think some sexual assault is going to happen with a bunch of witness of varying genders then you have a poor perception of people in general to think they would allow that to happen. I'm not saying that it does not happen because we all know it does but rarely if at all in the showers.

Its the military not prison.

a reply to: EKron

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Sorry to tell you this but is some regulations that will be enacted for that, no in between I'm afraid, just be happy that they are considering people already in the gender resignation.

How do I know how is going to be if the ban is lifted, well let say that my husband works with the military as a retired marine, already the news are around but like I say, it will not be anybody while in transition.

Hard to see a man with boobs but still with mr. happy hanging, if you know what I mean, specially during open showers situations that are unavoidable, no every where they have private bathrooms to accommodate for special needs.

As usual practicality rules and so the majority. be happy with whatever is going to be accomplished.

Also I will be very upset if the military change their rules and allow in transition for gender resignation recruits so they can finish their surgeries at the expenses of tax payers

Think people, I am all for already gender designated people that has gone throughout their psychological, hormonal and surgery resignation and procedures, but what about using the military to pay for that at the expenses of tax payers, these procedures takes time, years lots of psychological therapies and it cost a lot of money.

It has to be rules.

a reply to: marg6043

I AM happy with whatever happens. I just think that things COULD be ironed out to be all inclusive. I didn't even know this was a thing until I saw it on Huff Po the other day.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I am very happy that the government is going far and beyond to brake some taboos, within the military, but as usual this type of things will come with many rules.

But is a good thing that is even considered.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Fascinating. So there is bigotry within the all accepting GLBTQ community?

It is like any community made up of disparate individuals. "Transgender" is an umbrella term that covers a wide range of diversity and there's plenty of internal politics. Certain factions within this community that have completed all the surgical steps to reassignment even have a defined transsexual separatist platform. I don't get into politics but do see and agree with some of the separatist movement's talking points.

I really have nothing to with the GLBTQ "community" but have become part of it by default for something I did 40 years ago. I do support the cause though.

a reply to: marg6043

It's the military. The only thing the military likes more than paperwork is rules.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Tell me about it, I heard that about more than 40 thousand troops will be eliminated from the branch of the army by 2017, so I guess the recruiting is going to slow down a lot.This started in 2010 but the president added more numbers to it.

I agree that I will ultimately be ok with whatever the mIlitary decides even if it means the exclusion of those in transition. I feel this way because I fully understand that the military has teams of professionals on top of experts to properly analyze and assess the situation. Besides it does not affect me I'm done and over with my service contract for some time now. I do feel bad for those though that may want to join the military for the opportunities it provides but are not allowed because they couldn't afford a very expensive surgery. Shame to lose out on willing, able and VOLUNTEERING troops. Though I don't really know why anyone would even want to volunteer to go fight in the name of imperialism anyway.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

a reply to: TrappedPrincess

It gets me to thinking. Since the military seems to have waivers for just about everything involving bans on enlistment, I wonder if there will be a waiver for this as well.

a reply to: marg6043

Hurry up and wait.

True, I had to get a tattoo waiver to get in and I tell you what else I would rather serve with someone that was a "gender waiver" ( that made me lol a bit) as opposed to an ASVAB waiver any day of the week.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Arrrrggghhh! Gotta hate typing a huge replying and having it get lost in the void!

Anywhoooo, my husband is a disabled veteran who was given a choice of working in chow or retiring after he was hurt (they knew he wouldn't take Chow - he was a Ranger for 8 years!). The military pays 100% medical care (thanks to taxpayers!), and would be responsible for paying for the hormones, meds and surgeries of those in transition. They won't do that - and as several have said here, and I reiterate - will discharge anyone who isn't in full health. Nor do they enlist those not in full health. I agree that showering isn't going to be an issue, and a woman who has a penis or a man who has a vagina, will only be a problem in homophobic minds of jerks anyway. It's the cost of healthcare (gee, it all comes down to healthcare!)

As an aside, my daughter's childhood friend is in transition, soon to have a mastectomy. His father hasn't spoken to him in 6 years! That is deplorable! I hope that as more people understand that gender doesn't change who the person is and has always been, that he will be more excepting of his son. He didn't mind having a daughter who was a tomboy...

My .02

You got it there, they are some cheap bastards when it comes to health and well being. Everone always would say it is free health care but as for the quality of said care meh... that depends on where and in what capacity you are stationed.

a reply to: Lolliek