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The Ban On Transgender Individuals In The Military May Soon Be Lifted

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posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: NavyDoc

Then perhaps you can explain this, because this is your statement that I've been working from:


originally posted by: NavyDoc
Shrug. I think it points out that even transgender people have their prejudices and hangups which sort of indicates that non transgender people shouldn't be criticized for theirs if you guys have the same issues between each other.


Which my point is: No. It does not indicate that.


So the discomfort that non-transgender people may feel is acceptable to you then?


No, but I understand it and feel that it is up to each of us who are transgender to educate people so as to help them become more comfortable with us.

That is what my parents and I had to do throughout school and I learned a lot about bridging gaps in understanding of understanding this issue.

A lot of it really comes down to people's misconceptions about what being trans is. And in my case the parents had to meet us and those misconceptions faded away and as such so did their objections.

But had we handled it differently, shouting them down and had i not presented myself in a way which helped them be more comfortable accepting that i wasn't that different than their daughter then there would likely have been a negative outcome. Instead there was a positive one and of that i am very happy.




posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

A period is also when a woman is at her most fertile, and don't dismiss it out of hand altogether. I've known a few women who have had terrible, terrible premenstrual cramps. It can be a big deal if you're laid out on the cot, clutching your stomach from the pain.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: NavyDoc

Then perhaps you can explain this, because this is your statement that I've been working from:


originally posted by: NavyDoc
Shrug. I think it points out that even transgender people have their prejudices and hangups which sort of indicates that non transgender people shouldn't be criticized for theirs if you guys have the same issues between each other.


Which my point is: No. It does not indicate that.


So the discomfort that non-transgender people may feel is acceptable to you then?


No, but I understand it and feel that it is up to each of us who are transgender to educate people so as to help them become more comfortable with us.

That is what my parents and I had to do throughout school and I learned a lot about bridging gaps in understanding of understanding this issue.

A lot of it really comes down to people's misconceptions about what being trans is. And in my case the parents had to meet us and those misconceptions faded away and as such so did their objections.

But had we handled it differently, shouting them down and had i not presented myself in a way which helped them be more comfortable accepting that i wasn't that different than their daughter then there would likely have been a negative outcome. Instead there was a positive one and of that i am very happy.


Shrug. If you're not comfortable with it, why should they?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

You are supposed to the expert on this one 'Doc'.

You know damn well women are given the option of taking birth control pills continually to prevent the menstrual cycle while on deployment.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc
Your spiffy treatise there is referencing HRT as administered to non- operatives. What can you provide that shows the treatment for a natal woman with both ovaries removed which would be similar to the post operative transsexual person.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: EKron
a reply to: NavyDoc
Your spiffy treatise there is referencing HRT as administered to non- operatives. What can you provide that shows the treatment for a natal woman with both ovaries removed which would be similar to the post operative transsexual person.


They'd very likely be non-deployable.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:09 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: NavyDoc

Then perhaps you can explain this, because this is your statement that I've been working from:


originally posted by: NavyDoc
Shrug. I think it points out that even transgender people have their prejudices and hangups which sort of indicates that non transgender people shouldn't be criticized for theirs if you guys have the same issues between each other.


Which my point is: No. It does not indicate that.


So the discomfort that non-transgender people may feel is acceptable to you then?


No, but I understand it and feel that it is up to each of us who are transgender to educate people so as to help them become more comfortable with us.

That is what my parents and I had to do throughout school and I learned a lot about bridging gaps in understanding of understanding this issue.

A lot of it really comes down to people's misconceptions about what being trans is. And in my case the parents had to meet us and those misconceptions faded away and as such so did their objections.

But had we handled it differently, shouting them down and had i not presented myself in a way which helped them be more comfortable accepting that i wasn't that different than their daughter then there would likely have been a negative outcome. Instead there was a positive one and of that i am very happy.


Shrug. If you're not comfortable with it, why should they?


Because I am not arguing for people who were like me to just be accepted into such facilities without discretion. The principal told the concerned parents that there were no issues with me using the girls room and other then them there were no other objections. Still it was up to my parents and I to convince them otherwise.

We didn't just say, "ok, you're wrong you must accept."

We worked through what their concerns were and me meeting them convinced them that there was no threat and nothing to be afraid or worried about.

We were not arguing to allow me to use the facilities standing up in a stall or something like that. When it became clear that I was very discrete about my difference and that my difference was something that I did not want to emphasize or have discussed even and that until them no one even really thought much about it because i didn't stick out in terms of using the girls room those parents fears went away.
edit on 14-7-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:10 PM
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a reply to: TrappedPrincess

I don't think the masses on this thread respond to this issue as a matter of everyone's comfort. Comfort is not promised in the military, nor should it be expected. That being said I thinks it's more viewed from the medical standpoint. Noone has the right to join the military, nor should you. It is not society, in fact your barely a citizen with rights once you join. That being said, there are a wide array of things that can disqualify anyone. I could not imagine the pain that would come with making a decision to change alot of who you are but I imagine it wouldn't be without good reason, that does not make me uncomfortable, they are still human. But this is the military we are talking about.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
They'd very likely be non-deployable.


I think you missed my meaning. You listed all these different drugs out I've never heard of and withdrawal when stopping them. This was all in reference to someone non-op.

I was just wondering what HRT regime women who have had their ovaries removed would be on. Certainly not all that and something at a very low dose, most likely. I was curious about it because the situation for a post-operative transsexual is probably similar if not identical.
edit on Tue Jul 14th 2015 by EKron because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

One thing i have been wondering though....are there any FTMs on ATS? If so i'd love to hear from you. if you don't feel comfortable being out on ATS please U2U me i will never divulge who you are or anything else to anyone.


I know of at least one but I turned him onto Susans Place (after a particularly rough transgender thread here) and I haven't seen him since. He wasn't necessarily in the closet but I feel weird just posting his name on here. Hopefully he'll see this and chime in.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:16 PM
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I've gotta go to work but i'll check this thread on my phone. pardon me if my responses are short.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:16 PM
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originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: NavyDoc

You are supposed to the expert on this one 'Doc'.

You know damn well women are given the option of taking birth control pills continually to prevent the menstrual cycle while on deployment.



Ah, "Doc" in quotation marks. Obviously you don't want to learn, so what's the point?

And no, they are not typically "given that option" and the test cases had mixed results.
http ://www.usmedicine.com/agencies/department-of-defense-dod/menstrual-suppression-could-help-deployed-women-avoid-discomfort-inconvenience/

In theory it could have benefit but in action it has been problematic, including, as I have mentioned, often difficulty with maintaining the continual dosing of the hormone and potential side effects in not menstruating for as much as a year and potential risk of medical problems while deployed that could make the member a casualty. DVT/PE would not fare well in the hinterlands.




To ensure safety, women desiring to reduce or stop menstruation should consult their physician or other healthcare provider prior to using any type of contraception. General and serious side effects from contraceptive use include bloating, nausea, irregular bleeding, blood clots, heart attack, stroke, high blood pressure, other heart diseases, certain cancers, liver disease, gallbladder disease, and defects in carbohydrate and lipid metabolism. These risks are higher among women who smoke and/or are over the age of 35


You don't want a troop getting a PE in the middle of nowhere because they were trying to suppress their menstruation.

And this really has between jack and squat to do with transgender HRT because they are different animals with different side effects and issues if the supply chain can't keep them up with their meds.
edit on 14-7-2015 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: JadeStar

One thing i have been wondering though....are there any FTMs on ATS? If so i'd love to hear from you. if you don't feel comfortable being out on ATS please U2U me i will never divulge who you are or anything else to anyone.


I know of at least one but I turned him onto Susans Place (after a particularly rough transgender thread here) and I haven't seen him since. He wasn't necessarily in the closet but I feel weird just posting his name on here. Hopefully he'll see this and chime in.


I hope he does. That's a voice that has been missing in so many of these threads and that voice is just as important as any of ours who went or are going the other direction.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

I got that one, you are been call outdated and soon to be retired,

that is ok, my husband is from the old days, things has changed a lot, we know how far the military has come, the question is, for the better? for the worst? time will tell, still nobody that has not served before in the military and has not been in the military when rules were a lot different can never understand why certain rules were always in place, is hard to have a good debate of pros and cons without the rhetoric of been look as bias, condescend, prejudice, homophobic and intolerant.

I will no let it bother at all.

But is going to be very interesting times ahead of us as people push for their civil and human rights to be respected by all, regardless that some ways of thinking will never be changed, changes and tolerance to them takes time.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: galaga
But they shower together.


Not only this, but what about the roommate situation? I'm currently serving in the Army and have been since 2005. Soldiers are separated by sex when placed in barracks and more often than not have roommates. It will be interesting to see how the military handles that situation, and the whole 'showering together,' which usually happens during large training exercises and in basic training. Actually had a conversation about this yesterday with a few of the guys, and it honestly seems like there are more against this implementation than for it.

Regardless of how I personally feel about the overall transgender issue, I do not believe they should be allowed to join the military. There are separate standards set for male and female for many things, due to the physical differences. Therefore...if someone is in transition from one sex to another than what are they? Halfway between with all the drugs and whatever they have to take to completely change their body. There is a lot of look at when it comes to this, and I will remain wholeheartedly against it.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: 2wheelvet
Thanks for your service.

The quote in the OP says the military is not considering those that haven't completed transition so there won't be anything other than females showering with the other females, etc. All the back and forth in this thread was mostly about allowing in those that were in-betweeners



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: EKron
a reply to: 2wheelvet
Thanks for your service.

The quote in the OP says the military is not considering those that haven't completed transition so there won't be anything other than females showering with the other females, etc. All the back and forth in this thread was mostly about allowing in those that were in-betweeners



Ok cool, so if I'm an in betweener can I refer to you as a once had a wiener?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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dp


edit on Tue Jul 14th 2015 by EKron because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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originally posted by: EKron


Ok cool, so if I'm an in betweener can I refer to you as a once had a wiener?


Well, it does sort of rhythm!




posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 07:17 PM
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originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: EKron


Ok cool, so if I'm an in betweener can I refer to you as a once had a wiener?


Well, it does sort of rhythm!



I know, I'm an aspiring rapper lol JK




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